16t minerals

[Fat Controller]

I suspect they were Diagram 1/108 wagons, so Morton, with shoes on on side only. I looked at the list of Diagram and Lot Numbers, and they don't seem to have built any diagrams before 1/108.

The first number issued to Pressed Steel was B75200; there was an run of numbers  to B100108 that is, just short of 25000 wagons. There were further batches from Pressed Steel and other manufacturers; in total 206444 wagons were built to this Diagram alone.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Fat Controller

[PatB]

On 31/10/2020 at 01:52, hmrspaul said:

Graham Farish did an LMS mineral wagon with that type of end. A very long time ago! Available in red/brown or grey. 

 

Paul

And in N too, not that it's relevant here. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 hours ago, PatB said:

And in N too, not that it's relevant here. 

 

But the OO version is?

 

Mike.

[PatB]

8 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

But the OO version is?

 

Mike.

Well, insofar as the mystery wagon could, at a stretch, be a Farish 00 one, but almost certainly couldn't be an N example. 

[steve4rosegrove]

On 31/10/2020 at 19:03, hmrspaul said:

Who

What we knew as Alec Jackson couplings, but nothing to do with this model. 

 

Paul

Although the nose of the wire part of the couplings is similar, I do not think that they are Alec Jackson couplings.  There is not a horizontal loop / bar or curved 'lifter' in Alec's design as far as I know.

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, steve4rosegrove said:

Although the nose of the wire part of the couplings is similar, I do not think that they are Alec Jackson couplings.  There is not a horizontal loop / bar or curved 'lifter' in Alec's design as far as I know.

 

i am aware of what is now called an Alec Jackson coupling, but that is what we called these in the 1960s. And it has absolutely nothing to do with mineral wagons or the source of this model. 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

14 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

But the OO version is?

 

Mike.

What is this question? I take a couple of photos of a wagon because someone found a body. I've boxes of bodies. Want to see the Playcraft 2 door, I can do that, the ERG rivetted 16t I can do that. But not after this reaction. 

 

Paul

[Enterprisingwestern]

23 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

But the OO version is?

 

Mike.

 

8 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

What is this question? I take a couple of photos of a wagon because someone found a body. I've boxes of bodies. Want to see the Playcraft 2 door, I can do that, the ERG rivetted 16t I can do that. But not after this reaction. 

 

Paul

 

No need to get uppity Paul, I'm only asking if the OO version is more relevant to the current discussion.

Apologies if it was phrased badly, that's the joy of the printed word.

 

Mike.

[Bernard Lamb]

On 31/10/2020 at 22:38, Ian Smeeton said:

 

 

The reason for asking, is that I have an urge to upset the rivet counters, by running  a full train of unweathered, ex works consecutively numbered 16 T minerals on delivery from Linwood to wherever they went.

 

The firs  10 have just landed on my workbench, courtesy of Stephen Harris.

 

As they were built unfitted, I am guessing Double sided independent, but I would like confirmation, if possible.

 

Regards, and thanks for the help.

 

Ian

Would a rake leaving the factory be consecutively numbered?

My experience of how things are made leads me to think that there would be more than one production line and that completed wagons would not come from those lines exactly in sequence. 

Bernard

[jwealleans]

It might depend on the manufacturer, but I have a couple of photos from Charles Roberts showing painted LNER wagons being lettered and they are simply placed in a long line for the signwriters to work down.   They are numbered sequentially.   Presumably the plates were attached at the same time as the number was painted on?

[Gibbo675]

55 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Would a rake leaving the factory be consecutively numbered?

My experience of how things are made leads me to think that there would be more than one production line and that completed wagons would not come from those lines exactly in sequence. 

Bernard

Steady on there Bernard, never mind the rivet counters, you will be upsetting those with Asperger's if you don't get the numbers in order !!!

 

Gibbo.

[RLBH]

8 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

It might depend on the manufacturer, but I have a couple of photos from Charles Roberts showing painted LNER wagons being lettered and they are simply placed in a long line for the signwriters to work down.   They are numbered sequentially.   Presumably the plates were attached at the same time as the number was painted on?

I would imagine that in the case of multiple factories, one might be assigned numbers 1 to 1000, another numbers 1001 to 3000, and so forth. Any given factory would start making them in consecutive order, simply for administrative convenience, but you'd probably get the odd case where number 273 had to be sent back for rework so was completed out of order. But you'd quite probably wind up with number 1001, being the first produced by Factory B, being completed well before 1000, the last from Factory A.

 

Unless of course you didn't, because Factory A had other priorities, or was on strike, or the contract was signed late, or any number of other things.

[Bernard Lamb]

2 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Steady on there Bernard, never mind the rivet counters, you will be upsetting those with Asperger's if you don't get the numbers in order !!!

 

Gibbo.

I was told to lay the table for tea and was given a tea set that was illustrated with pictures of UK castles. I laid it out geographically from N to S . A friend of my sister who was a special needs teacher thought that I would do it like that but it surprised my sister who knew I was a bit that way but not quite that extreme.

In BR times in a private company I would expect there to be at least two lines. Any reject wagon would be taken out and if rectified sent for delivery. Let us say several in sequence with an odd one every now and again that has an earlier number. Some of the big car companies certainly worked like that.

Re the point by jwealleans. I would have thought that would be a separate paint line rather than a complete production line.

Bernard

 

[jwealleans]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I would have thought that would be a separate paint line rather than a complete production line.

 

Sorry, I obviously wasn't clear enough - this was a separate paint line, not part of production.

 

 

 

[Gibbo675]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I was told to lay the table for tea and was given a tea set that was illustrated with pictures of UK castles. I laid it out geographically from N to S . A friend of my sister who was a special needs teacher thought that I would do it like that but it surprised my sister who knew I was a bit that way but not quite that extreme.

In BR times in a private company I would expect there to be at least two lines. Any reject wagon would be taken out and if rectified sent for delivery. Let us say several in sequence with an odd one every now and again that has an earlier number. Some of the big car companies certainly worked like that.

Re the point by jwealleans. I would have thought that would be a separate paint line rather than a complete production line.

Bernard

 

Hi Bernard,

 

As a child I used to eat my dinner in order so I know all about that kind of carry on. Although I've grown out of such I do still like a good ordered line up.

 

Gibbo.

[Re6/6]

Another question!

 

Were there ever any versions with 10ft wheelbase?

 

I have a couple of Bachmann (Hong Kong) versions which are longer with a 10ft wheelbase. Would these be fictitious?

 

[JohnR]

I think I'm right in saying that some early Bachmann wagons were actually based on the Mainline tooling, which was stretched to fit a 10ft chassis?

[Poor Old Bruce]

21 minutes ago, Re6/6 said:

Another question!

 

Were there ever any versions with 10ft wheelbase?

 

I have a couple of Bachmann (Hong Kong) versions which are longer with a 10ft wheelbase. Would these be fictitious?

 

 

There were a small number of 10ft wb/17ft 6in Mins which were late-on conversions of redundant Palbrick wagons. It has all been covered previously in the thread.

[Fat Controller]

7 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

There were a small number of 10ft wb/17ft 6in Mins which were late-on conversions of redundant Palbrick wagons. It has all been covered previously in the thread.

To give some idea of how relatively rare the 10' wb ones were, there were 394 of the rebuilds (all without top doors), as opposed to 206,444 Diagram 108.

[JohnR]

5 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

To give some idea of how relatively rare the 10' wb ones were, there were 394 of the rebuilds (all without top doors), as opposed to 206,444 Diagram 108.

 

However, it appears that the longer wagon does have a top door?

[Fat Controller]

7 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

However, it appears that the longer wagon does have a top door?

The model may do; the real things didn't. It's all part of manufacturers using the 'one size fits all' principle when it comes to underframes.

[Re6/6]

Thanks all. They won't be used.

[Metr0Land]

Moses Gate, Bolton

 

Sharnbrook

 

West Hampstead

 

Great Bridgeford

 

 

 

 

 

[johnw1]

46038 - 1977 Stainforth

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/50500698693/in/dateposted-public/

 

[hmrspaul]

15 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

No need to get uppity Paul, I'm only asking if the OO version is more relevant to the current discussion.

Apologies if it was phrased badly, that's the joy of the printed word.

 

Mike.

OF course there is. We were discussing a 4mm model that wasn't identified. I photographed a 4mm model which appears identical in all respects but still has the original frame. And I believe it is a Graham Farish one. If you look at their adverts from the 1950s you will see photos of them. The original poster was comparing the model with the Bachmann 4mm model wasn't he? I still have no understanding of what your comment was about. 

 

Paul