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16t minerals


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11 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

that pair of what would become MDVs must be very new, and a very interesting take on freight stock red, not so orange as it often appears. 

 

With different film makers manufacturing films that biases towards different parts of the colour spectrum it would be interesting to know what film stock was used and if any filters were on the lens.

 

Checking my 1990's film data manuals, if dark stored dark, Kodachrome had a claimed colour fastness for an estimated 100 years whilst  most E6 processed films had a non colour shift lifespan of 50 years. I wonder if we'll ever have the ability of knowing how the photographers eyes perceived the colour at the moment he pressed the shutter release? 

 

Then along came digital and photoshop. :smile_mini2:

 

 

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53 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

The blue of the loco looks good, and the brown of the engineers coach behind is good as well so what is the problem with the colour?

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul

 

The coach behind the loco is the brake third of a GER section Quint-Art, which none as far as I know became engineers coaches. By 1960, if the caption date is correct it would either be in crimson or maroon, I doubt it would still be in Statford brown that was applied to some LNER stock in early BR days.

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1 hour ago, hmrspaul said:

The blue of the loco looks good, and the brown of the engineers coach behind is good as well so what is the problem with the colour?

 

Purely because its a colour restored image and as such open to the restorers interpretation.

 

To quote Mr Gadson,  who in my opinion does a good job at resto's;

 

"Restored from a faded grainy original..

Original slide - photographer unknown"

 

Anyhow, here's another: A little blurred but hey ho...

 

49001957341_8521ba996f_b.jpgIMG_0024-2 by Pete Wilcox, on Flickr

 

 

Edited by Porcy Mane
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'NO END DOOR'; well, clearly it does have an end door, and at that end as well.  I am more bothered by the degradation of the film, though, in the form of the horribly shaped red blob behind the fence behind the wagons, one of the ugliest loco designs in the least suitable livery for it.  It is so ashamed of itself it doesn't want us to know it's name or number...

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4 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

'NO END DOOR'; well, clearly it does have an end door, and at that end as well.  I am more bothered by the degradation of the film, though, in the form of the horribly shaped red blob behind the fence behind the wagons, one of the ugliest loco designs in the least suitable livery for it.  It is so ashamed of itself it doesn't want us to know it's name or number...

Welded shut perhaps.

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17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

'NO END DOOR'; well, clearly it does have an end door, and at that end as well.  I am more bothered by the degradation of the film, though, in the form of the horribly shaped red blob behind the fence behind the wagons, one of the ugliest loco designs in the least suitable livery for it.  It is so ashamed of itself it doesn't want us to know it's name or number...

As well as not in use an important piece of information for those using the wagon. Very unusual, but not unique - and quite a number of the 24.5t MEO had similar but more formally applied. 

 

Interesting to see the Warship being repainted - they looked great out of Waterloo contrasting with the green and increasing blue on everything. 

 

Paul

 

 

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22 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Paul

 

The coach behind the loco is the brake third of a GER section Quint-Art, which none as far as I know became engineers coaches. By 1960, if the caption date is correct it would either be in crimson or maroon, I doubt it would still be in Statford brown that was applied to some LNER stock in early BR days.

Fair enough. I have several departmental coaches which appear to have retained a brown well into the 1980s. I remain convinced the Mineral grey is a reasonable representation but how he regenerates the slides is beyond me, he has many excellent examples. 

 

Paul

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On 16/01/2022 at 13:32, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Paul

 

The coach behind the loco is the brake third of a GER section Quint-Art, which none as far as I know became engineers coaches. By 1960, if the caption date is correct it would either be in crimson or maroon, I doubt it would still be in Statford brown that was applied to some LNER stock in early BR days.

 

Not a quint but a closer view of a typical Gresley coach at same sort of time shows how dirty it is and how it could easily look brown at a distance in poor light.  Also a Robert Gadsdon offering.

 

1960 - Last Days of Steam at Chingford..

 

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Metr0land posted "Not a quint but a closer view of a typical Gresley coach at same sort of time shows how dirty it is and how it could easily look brown at a distance in poor light.  Also a Robert Gadsdon offering."

 

The Chingford line seemed to be the only lower priority service out of Liverpool Street in the early '70s than the Hertford East service, the one I used. There were legends from steam days of "Liverpool St. or bust" chalked onto the rolling stock. I'm not surprised it's beyond grubby into filthy.

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Inspired by this thread I was just taking a look at the various kits and RTR models for 16t minerals in 7mm scale. I have identified the following, so far:

 

Dapol RTR (ex Lionheart):

BR 1/108 (standard welded)

BR 1/108 with 4-shoe vac brakes

BR 1/109 (standard rivetted)

BR 1/114 with 4-shoe vac brakes

 

Peco and Parkside by Peco (plastic kits):

BR 1/100 (slope sided)

BR 1/102 (welded, bottom doors, no top flaps)

BR 1/108 (standard welded)

BR 1/112 ('SNCF' cupboard doors and no end doors)

 

Modern Motive Power (D J Parkins, very detailed etched kits):

LMS D2109 (welded, bottom doors, no top flaps)

LMS D2134 (welded, bottom doors)

BR 1/108 (standard welded)

BR 1/108? with 4-shoe vac brakes

BR 1/108? with 8-shoe vac brakes

BR 1/109 (standard rivetted)

BR 1/? (rebodied)

BR 1/? with 4-shoe vac brakes

BR 1/? with 8-shoe vac brakes

 

First Class Kits (less detailed etched kits):

BR 1/? (rebodied)

BR 1/? with 8-shoe vac brakes.

 

I'll ignore the old Lima and Triang offerings which were dimensionally incorrect.

ABS used to offer some mineral wagon kits predominantly in white metal with some brass parts, but none are currently available. I did manage to grab an ABS iron ore tippler kit recently but that's outside the scope of this list.

 

There is some duplication of the most common diagrams, but several of the less well known diagrams missing.

Still, there are enough types for a varied rake and by swapping or modifying doors and brake gear there is scope to represent further minor variations including some of the ex private owner wagons.

 

Have I missed any other 16-tonners in 7mm scale? 

Mol

Edited by Mol_PMB
removed reference to 1/099 as I think I was wrong to quote this
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1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

I'll ignore the old Lima and Triang offerings which were dimensionally incorrect.

 

 

Could these not be used for the later builds on ex palbrick underframes? 

 

Apart from the length the bodies  measure up well alongside a Parkside kit on the other dimensions.

 

Just need to replace the chassis and and some minor bodywork changes 

 

Andy

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7 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

Could these not be used for the later builds on ex palbrick underframes? 

 

Apart from the length the bodies  measure up well alongside a Parkside kit on the other dimensions.

 

Just need to replace the chassis and and some minor bodywork changes 

 

Andy

Potentially they could, and definitely worth considering. Many thanks for the reminder about the diagram 1/099 on the former palbrick underframes.

I think those all had the final body style without top flaps, whereas the bodies of the Lima and Triang models had top flaps which would only be correct for the shorter wagons. This would require a bit of surgery to correct, but nothing too drastic.

The underframes and wheels are pretty crude but as you suggest they could be replaced if required.

 

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On 19/01/2022 at 12:11, Mol_PMB said:

I've just stumbled across these two photos showing some underframe detail!

 

t301 Walton Old Junction MSC sideings de-railment 1960's

 

t300 Walton Old Junction MSC Sidings de-railment 1960's

 

Also a nice ex-LMS wooden-bodied (steel underframe?) mineral wagon.

Of particular appeal to me with my MSC interests considering the location at Walton MSC Sidings.

Those photos go to prove my point about not having to do all the under gubbins on a model if you build your layout so stuff doesn't fall off, because you will never see it.

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22 minutes ago, watfordtmc said:

Just a reminder that it wasn't just coal that got carried...

 

B564285.JPG.20f7bb2a048713f9d438713f9c74bc1c.JPG

 

Regards

TMc

31/01/2022

 

Looks like a load of surplus static grass? 

 

They were also used to carry diverse loads such as soda ash, lime, sulphur, iron ore, and hides (animal skins). Some of these would have been sheeted. 

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33 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Looks like a load of surplus static grass? 

 

They were also used to carry diverse loads such as soda ash, lime, sulphur, iron ore, and hides (animal skins). Some of these would have been sheeted. 

Wood 'wool' by the look of it; used on loads like sanitary ware. Very good for setting the fire at home. The load in this wagon probably came from other wagons being emptied and cleaned.

 

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This may take sometime...so make a cup of tea, get comfy and enjoy the show (enter at your perygl)

 

https://museum.wales/media-dams/4bd9afcc-395a-30bc-8963-78f8db0b5640/large/

...nice 16 tonners

 

https://museum.wales/collections/online/?field0=string&value0=railway%2C negative&field1=with_images&value1=1

...the rest of the collection (also check out the other categories, there are some lovely aerial photos of Sunderland in here?)

Edited by Axlebox
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