Thomas Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 40092 passing Partington Jct with a train of sheeted ICI 16t. 25 April 1974. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 40092 passing Partington Jct with a train of sheeted ICI 16t. 25 April 1974. Brilliant! This is the First picture of a train of the 'POO' Soda Ash wagons I have seen are there any more? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 cant embed this one but it has been uploaded in a very high res.. early 1970s modellers should like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhayes/5338769892/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Oooh yeah, very nice. Love that 08 shot earlier too (btw, non-TOPS coded wagon in 1981, is that rare?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) c.1980 - Healey Mills, Wakefield, West Yorkshire. by 53A Models, on Flickr Edited December 15, 2012 by Andy Y Image removed due to copyright dispute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard of the Moor Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 A couple of my examples from Waterloo Street. D1/115 D1/118 More details of the construction in the layout thread. 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 A couple of links here which someone in France sent me, showing modifications carried out to the Charles Roberts-designed sloping-side minerals sent to France at the end of WW2;- http://cercleduzeropnpc.free.fr/wagons/british/tzo.html Both types have gone into engineers use; the modifications to the first are obvious, but the second had side and end doors welded shut, and was fitted with a large door in the floor as a form of crude hopper. These are the only photos I've seen of this type of wagon in France. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 40109 at Stockport with empty coal wagons - 26 September 1977 by Deadmans Handle, on Flickr 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 A couple of links here which someone in France sent me, showing modifications carried out to the Charles Roberts-designed sloping-side minerals sent to France at the end of WW2;- Those are brilliant Brian, I recall mention of some being converted to such use but it's not something you expect pictures of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Those are brilliant Brian, I recall mention of some being converted to such use but it's not something you expect pictures of. Someone on a French site was looking for shots of the types sent to France post-WW2, so I sent him the links to Paul Batlett's site. That prompted someone to find these; what I haven't found yet are any shots of the 'cupboard-door' type in service in France. I suspect the only reason these got photographed was that De Deitrich wanted some photos of the mods. The mods are fairly drastic; it would almost have been easier to start from scratch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Back in post 449 I mentioned I was about to attempt the weathering of my first 3 Bachmann bauxites... and to prove I wasn't lying, here they are... done in similar fashion to the greys I've done previously. Don't be afraid to criticise... I'm still on a learning curve! One photo shows the two that were 'already weathered', and the other (with half a grey on the left) includes the one that wasn't (already weathered). They will enlarge if clicked... 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) 564872 I like very much Alan, 69190 isnt far behind it - well defined edges to the patches and a bit of shade variation. 68901 in the bottom shot doesnt quite work for me though, the rusting is stark and much less subtle Edited June 1, 2012 by Pennine MC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hi Ian, and thanks again. You must mean 68901 in the bottom shot (the least successful), which is the unweathered example, and the one I was least happy with too. 'Funny' that the same colour enamels were used for all three... followed with a smudge or two of Dark Mud MIG pigment. I recall I was trying for a less weathered appearance for this one on account of it's 'newer' bauxite colour. Will have a ponder on how best to improve it's subtlety. And I've just noticed, too, I forgot a 'weathered white' treatment for all the brake handles. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I'm no expert, so consider/ignore these comments as you wish 68901 is nearly there - I like the rusty bits, I think it just needs an overall weathering down. It's got some really grubby rusty bits next to some pristine bits - that's the specific problem I think. So don't change what you've done, just weather the rest of the wagon a bit more. First photo, right hand one is superb. A decent batch, I thought. Maybe varying more the repeating coal load would be a further enhancement. Edited June 1, 2012 by Dave777 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 I dunno, plenty of prototype evidence in this thread that says they are all different, a problem can come from looking too much at something on the model that in real life you wouldnt in a sense,. what I mean is you dont want them all to look the same, which is a hard thing to stop yourself from doing once you've got 1 or 2 that you really like. however the guys who've posted have the eye for what looks right and know what they are talking about, but just something to bare in mind, 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It's a very valid point, and originally I had said in my post that I thought the right hand one was the 'best' one... but then thought 'Well what defines 'best'?' Plenty of real life examples I think 'Nah, don't like that' and others make me ponder 'Now that looks good'. Some look 'better' than others, but it's a wholly personal thing. There probably is a wagon out there somewhere just like 68901, with rusty bits next to near-pristine bits. It just doesn't fall into my personal 'looks good' category 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Really appreciate your comments guys, expert or not! ... and Dave, your idea of a bit more 'overall' weathering on 68901 will probably do the trick for me. Cheers for that. As I'm not doing very many, (budget constraints!) I've stuck with the same approach/technique to give the rake a certain 'togetherness'... so there's two 'personal preferences' straight away! Maybe I'll try another technique for an 'on it's last legs' wagon left to rot, all alone, in the yard! Re the coal loads, Dave (all 'real' and sitting on easily removable see-saw bases), for variety I've done different piles/sizes in other grey wagons, but I also wanted a consistent little group comprised of wagons that had obviously been filled in the same way (two drops, I suppose you'd call it). 'Tis based on a photo of a long coal train in Wales (bird's eye view) which I thought was very appealing. All destined for the local gas works, maybe. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 That '68901' is an odd case. It's in what appears to be the later version of Freight Stock Red (post 1964, IIRC), but has the markings in the original 'unboxed' style. Looks all right to me, though, in terms of weathering. As to the coal; if a series of wagons were being filled from the same screen, with the same grade of coal, and on the same day, then the shape of the heaps would be pretty consistent- especially if the coal was fairly fine. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 That's a b*****r... I'm modelling c1960... !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Re the coal loads, Dave (all 'real' and sitting on easily removable see-saw bases), for variety I've done different piles/sizes in other grey wagons, but I also wanted a consistent little group comprised of wagons that had obviously been filled in the same way (two drops, I suppose you'd call it). 'Tis based on a photo of a long coal train in Wales (bird's eye view) which I thought was very appealing. All destined for the local gas works, maybe. In that case, I take the comment back - prototypical modelling based on observation of the prototype. Can't fault that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 You must mean 68901 in the bottom shot I do indeed, post now edited. That's a b*****r... I'm modelling c1960... !! I wouldnt worry too much about that, I think folk get generally far too hung up on 'correct' livery shades. Particularly after the 1964 changes, despite what the official line might have been, all sorts of shades and hybrids could be seen. It would soon darken in traffic, particularly coal traffic, though you might want to consider toning it down by way of working towards the subtlety of the others. I dunno, plenty of prototype evidence in this thread that says they are all different, a problem can come from looking too much at something on the model that in real life you wouldnt in a sense,. what I mean is you dont want them all to look the same, which is a hard thing to stop yourself from doing once you've got 1 or 2 that you really like., It's a very valid point, and originally I had said in my post that I thought the right hand one was the 'best' one... but then thought 'Well what defines 'best'?' Plenty of real life examples I think 'Nah, don't like that' and others make me ponder 'Now that looks good'. Some look 'better' than others, but it's a wholly personal thing. I can identify with both of these posts. Once you've cracked a technique, it's very easy to start applying it to everything. In my case though, I've been working on so many of these things for so long that they can't hep but look different. Dave's point also touches on the idea that although weathering should definitely be based on the real thing (and an amazing amount of it patently isn't), it is sometimes advisable to 'interpret' the prototype rather than slavishly copy it. I suppose that's where the artistry comes in. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Thin Stripe, slope sided; http://www.flickr.co...ank/5176039544/ and... a shiney Evening Star... http://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/5960942117/ Porcy Edited June 1, 2012 by Porcy Mane 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I think my favourite 16t at the moment is my 'french' Parkside hybrid. Getting the mix right for Albion Yard was quite difficult, and I'm not sure I'm there yet. What I've noticed is that even though they're different, for the era I'm modelling approx 58-65 there is a sort of uniformity in the weathering. An occaisional 'fresh' one looks ok, but a really knackered one. and there were a few, looks odd amongst the fleet. I suspect most were out of the coal fleet by then, the cupboard doors and absence of end-doors rendering them a PITA (have you ever tried opening a door like this with something behind it? The best way is to get someone else to do it..) I have seen (but can't remember where..) photos of one marked 'sand'; others went to private owner use, Pointer Brothers being one operator. Given the structure of the sides, the sort of blow from a loading grab or electro-magnet that would dent a 'normal' 16 tonner would write off one of these. I don't think they were ever designed for mineral traffic anyway; the material I've read in French about them said that they were delivered with through air-pipe, screw-couplings, and lamp brackets (the sort of accoutrements to be found on an open merchandise wagon), all of which were lacking on their slope-sided cousins. Amongst the many thousands of mineral wagons I saw from the 1960s onwards, I only saw one example of this type- it had been shunted off the end of the slag tip at Llanelly Steel's plant and abandoned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 You're probably right, however they appear, (or one does several times through the years) reasonably frequently in Ben Ashworths shots of coal trains in the FoD area, hence the inclusion. Re the doors http://albionyard.wo...-in-the-forest/ The slope siders delivered to france for SNCF all appear to be 'fitted'. The French being surprised it seems that handbrake operations were quite normal until realtively late in UK operations compared to the continent. I can't recall seeing a fitted slope sider in UK livery, (over to Mr Delamar with his search facility), and presumably those returned were either unfitted or converted to that on arrival back in blighty. The slope-sided ones were 'piped' after arrival in France:-"Les Tzo (et non TZO) étaient débarqués à Cherbourg ( j'y étais, nous dit Marcel LEGUAY) avec attelage à chaînes, sans conduite de frein. On les acheminait sur les ateliers du Mans qui les équipait d'un attelage normal et d'une conduite blanche de frein. Après quoi, à la sortie d'atelier, ils étaient ventilés dans toutes les directions afin de se trouver mélangés avec les wagons freinés. Ils étaient bruns (NDLR : teinte "bauxite", plus rouge que le brun unifié SNCF)." from the Cercle de Zero (Picardie, Nord, Pas de Calais) web site I mentioned earlier. "The Tzo were landed at Cherbourg ('I was there', Marcel Leguay tells us) with three-link couplings, and without air-pipe. They were taken to the workshops at Le Mans, where they were equipped with screw couplings and a through air pipe. After this they were sent in all directions, to be mixed amongst braked wagons. They were painted brown (editor's note; 'bauxite', a little redder than SNCF standard brown)" 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 D809 Bath 5.69 by George of Dufton, on Flickr 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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