Wizard of the Moor Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 don't forget... The Airfix '2 Bob Mineral' improved - MRJ Issue 47 (1991) It's also important to follow the correspondence generated by that article in the letters pages of the next few issues. There were quite a few corrections made... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hi Bernard, Kenton Peter Fidczuk did the business back in 1991: Modellers Backtrack Volume 1, No. 3. The 16ton Mineral Wagon. Part 1: Prewar and wartime designs. Modellers Backtrack Volume 1, No. 4. The 16ton Mineral Wagon, Part 2: Later Pre-Nationalisation developments. Modellers Backtrack Volume 1, No. 5. The 16ton Mineral Wagon, Part 3: Developments under British Railways. There's others... Don Rowland, Geoff Kent, David Larkin... The MRJ's are 54 to 57 inclusive... Issue 86 might be worth a squizz... Beware. Don was misled by BR records and Dave L has followed this - as did the BR Wagon book Bartlett et al. Peter F is a lot more accurate. If the MRJs are the articles I am thinking about there are some howlers in there. Paul Bartlett 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted August 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 Beware. Don was misled by BR records and Dave L has followed this - as did the BR Wagon book Bartlett et al. Peter F is a lot more accurate. If the MRJs are the articles I am thinking about there are some howlers in there. Paul Bartlett I believe Dave Larkins facts and figures are the accurate ones to go for, unless,,,,,,, Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I believe Dave Larkins facts and figures are the accurate ones to go for, unless,,,,,,, Mike. No. Sorry, you will find Peter did much better research, as he had access to documents that were not available when Dave was doing his work. He hasn't updated his stuff very much. Slightly off topic but look at my collections of open merchandise wagons designated (usually with upgrading of roller bearings) for clay, compared to the lists that Dave has published. http://PaulBartlett....com/brclayliner http://PaulBartlett....prenatclayliner Similarly In his latest book Larkin, David (2012) Civil Engineers wagons Volume 2 Early British Rail: 1968- 1977. Pub by Kestrel Railway books. ISBN 978 1 905505-24-1 vi+90pp Dave has omitted many of the double bolsters converted for long welded rail. http://PaulBartlett....weldrailbolster Studying BR is very very difficult. Many of the records were never available, and then trashed. The HMRS managed to get quite a lot before it was skipped and other records are in private hands, the NRM and Kew have others but a lot has been lost. It is not helped by so much being constructed by private companies and their records are also not readily available. There were local conversions which appear to have gone largely unrecorded - there are several photos in the Russell books of BR conversions for which very little else is known. I'll admit it is not something I have spent much time on - such library work was too much like the day job. Dave Larkin and Don Rowland did a remarkable job, but I'm afraid that all of the details will never be known. Paul Bartlett [and beware of the tables in Don's books, there are quite a lot of typos - I've had email rows with individuals that believe the printed word is gospel, despite photos being very clearly different, as were other published records - such as Dave Ls lists. ] Edited August 17, 2012 by hmrspaul 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 But don't settle for just a Diagram 108....variety is the spice of life! Thanks for all the pointers and saving me trouble wading through all issues of MRJ - now I only have to blow the dust off a few. I'm not sure quite what would be appropriate in terms of variety for the period (1957-1983) and location (Sutton Manor Colliery) where I guess nearly everything would be 'internal user'. Although basing my input on the photos of the location in this topic and in the main SMC topic along with my inadequate identification skills they appear to be all 1/108s. I guess I also find, that for an item of stock that was so common on the prototype BR that there are not many more kits available. Even perhaps a simple basic 5 sided box with no additional components in resin/3d print. Might be popular and certainly save on wastage of buying a new Bachmann, cutting everything off it or a PD kit and throwing away the underframe sprues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure quite what would be appropriate in terms of variety for the period (1957-1983) and location (Sutton Manor Colliery) where I guess nearly everything would be 'internal user'. Although basing my input on the photos of the location in this topic and in the main SMC topic along with my inadequate identification skills they appear to be all 1/108s. That is a very long time period. In 1957 it is very unlikely that any steel 16ton minerals would have gone into private - internal ownership. They would have been using wooden minerals http://PaulBartlett....com/brpomineral There would have begun a transition of the internal user fleet in the early 1960s as the non standard 16tonners were phased out and by 1983 many locations would have had mostly steel minerals of all types. By then they would often have been repaired, cannabalised and changed by the internal user. Paul Bartlett PS - I have no knowledge of the separate SMC topic you mention Edited August 17, 2012 by hmrspaul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 PS - I have no knowledge of the separate SMC topic you mention Sorry Paul remiss of me, the SMC topic and Keith's (flyingsignalman) post with photos in this topic a few pages back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Thanks for all the pointers and saving me trouble wading through all issues of MRJ - now I only have to blow the dust off a few. I'm not sure quite what would be appropriate in terms of variety for the period (1957-1983) and location (Sutton Manor Colliery) where I guess nearly everything would be 'internal user'. Although basing my input on the photos of the location in this topic and in the main SMC topic along with my inadequate identification skills they appear to be all 1/108s. I guess I also find, that for an item of stock that was so common on the prototype BR that there are not many more kits available. Even perhaps a simple basic 5 sided box with no additional components in resin/3d print. Might be popular and certainly save on wastage of buying a new Bachmann, cutting everything off it or a PD kit and throwing away the underframe sprues? Those awfully nice people at Parkside Dundas will supply you with sprues for bodies and floors for wagon at a very reasonable price (75p per sprue the last time I ordered some)- very handy for kit-bashing. Just received a delivery from P-D; the 'per-sprue' price is now £1- a typical wagon body would require two for sides and ends, plus one for a floor. Edited August 18, 2012 by Fat Controller 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted August 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2012 So I suspect that despite all the research no one is able to definitively answer the hallowed question... How many 16 ton minerals* were actually constructed? *in total. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Andrew Barclay 2126 CEGB Gloucester 20 March 1965 by pondhopper1, on Flickr 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Preston docks 1968 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Warrington Bank Quay Low Level E.N.BELLASS. by DigitAL46232, on Flickr 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Horwich works internal 16t only foundry open at the time. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Chelsea Basin goods yard from a West London Line train about 1965 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDuty Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Preston docks 1968 I love this photo. Was this a coastal vessel of some sort? I can't imagine it would have been profitable to ship coal in such a small vessel unless it was heading into some kind of restricted space port. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I love this photo. Was this a coastal vessel of some sort? I can't imagine it would have been profitable to ship coal in such a small vessel unless it was heading into some kind of restricted space port. Probably bound for the Isle of Man or one of the small ports in the Irish Republic. There is a name visible on the bow, but my eyes aren't up to reading it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Probably bound for the Isle of Man or one of the small ports in the Irish Republic. There is a name visible on the bow, but my eyes aren't up to reading it. Presumably Michael has the original and can read it, no other copyright attribution is provided. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 pic is from this blog site.. http://ribblesteam.wordpress.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 pic is from this blog site.. http://ribblesteam.wordpress.com/ I've removed it over potential copyright issues, can you just provide a link to the image or page url? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I did above, when you search for it on google images it shows up, but the link to the site is awkward and doesnt show the picture. try here.. http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=preston+docks+1968+ribble+steam&um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ACAW_enGB407GB407&biw=1024&bih=455&tbm=isch&tbnid=EgaAyhyr8U1-KM:&imgrefurl=http://ribblesteam.wordpress.com/&docid=YCvsKr08QCBwHM&itg=1&imgurl=http://images.ribblesteam.multiply.com/image/2/photos/134/600x600/9/Bally-Lagan-A-16-ton-mineral-wagon-has-its-contents-of-coal-discharged-into-the-vessel-June-1968.jpg%253Fet%253D9hTIXCqSdzoO6RfWM09Jpg%2526nmid%253D168229869&w=600&h=399&ei=lyQ0UKHvKoyV0QWXg4D4BQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=401&vpy=2&dur=3828&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=78&ty=203&sig=101824675166669644578&page=5&tbnh=128&tbnw=169&start=56&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:56,i:260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Hmmm. My browser will only partially open the link provided by Michael before it locks up my PC but found this Image whilst giiggling for "Preston Docks 1968". http://flic.kr/p/5Di4nh Porcy EDIT: Was it one of Barking Bills pictures we are meant to be looking at? MV Bally Lagan being the vessels name... http://flic.kr/p/4DdjGy Bill provides the BB code etc to allow for embedding of the image on other web sites but noting earler remarks I thought better of it on this occasion. Edited August 22, 2012 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDuty Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I found a little more on her - she was bigger than she appeared in the original photo: Edited August 22, 2012 by Andy Y Link removed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I found a little more on her - she was bigger than she appeared in the original photo: WARNING Do not try this link. Contains a nasty pop up. Bernard Edited August 22, 2012 by Andy Y Link removed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 What is the problem with this link, works for me http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2390184904/ It appears to be a small coastal vessel, that were (are?) common. Very nice photograph. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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