hmrspaul Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I cant recall ever seeing a bottom door 16t being used. any specific location they were used? and would they be kept together? Michael - you are far too young (I checked your profile). Virtually all of the non standard mineral wagons appear to have been withdrawn by about 1966 or 7. The standard ones - diag 108 and 109 mainly, did not have bottom doors. The very few on my Zenfolio site are either RTB coil carriers or in internal use. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Michael - you are far too young (I checked your profile cheers Paul Im too young to remember anything of real interest, all I go by is pictures, dvds and recollections. although one of my earliest recollections is seeing a engineering train stabled near my house, I was only about 5 and I can still remember a brake van and some brown open wagons peeking out from under a bridge, I remember because I knew them as trucks from Thomas the tank and had never seen any up close before. all I knew were the local electrics. Im guessing they would have been ex 16tonners on ballasting, around 1987-88 this was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I fear I may have errored with my photos - was this meant to be a 'realistic 16t wagon' or 'a realistic photo of a 16t mineral' thread? (in a similar style to the 'how realistic are your models?' thread). If so, I have committed the No. 1 sin of that thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 either really Dave just to share hints tips and photos of building and weathering techniques and variations of the prototype. basically to give inspiration to others and to show off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 These are a couple of early ones (as in, I built them a long time ago), mostly done with washes of thinned enamel and a bit of drybrushing. Having read the 6WTS thread and others in the years since then the next batch will hopefully have a bit more texture to them. L-R Parkside and Airfix. There are at least 60 more in the loft, about half of which are ready for weathering: If I was building them now those hinges would come off for a start ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted May 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2011 A few of my efforts - Bachmann, Parkside and Airfix: 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 very nice chaps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 sandside, how did you go about doing the rust on those 2 on the left? more 16t in the movies Alfie 1966, London not sure of exact location but wouldnt mind finding out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted May 21, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2011 By the Regents Canal with St Pancras and the gasholders in the background. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 thanks Pete , is it Wharf road? I dont know the area but found it on google maps, was hoping the bridge would still be there as I think its interesting cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 sussed it on an old map, going into the coal shoots Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I cant recall ever seeing a bottom door 16t being used. any specific location they were used? and would they be kept together? I was hoping some sort of recollection would come forth Mike, but my impression FWIW is twofold: one, that the original designs simply duplicated the concept of the many wooden 13 tonners (which also generally had bottom doors), and the second being of somebody having the vague idea that they could be used on coal drops in the absence of hopper wagons (albeit still with shovelling involvment, inside the wagon). It's probably not coincidence that the LNER 16 tonners were the only pre-BR ones to not have bottom doors, and possibly the adoption of the LNER 21T hopper as a BR type was a significant factor in the decision to stop building 16 tonners with bottom doors (though that's only a theory, I'd have to check specific order/build dates to even begin to back it up). As for them being run together, again it's possible but in the typical 'train shot', it's difficult to tell; at the time that this would have been happening (if it was), they'd have been mixed in with ex-POs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto21 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Love this thread and really makes me want to build some more 16 tonners! Here's an old photo of a couple of mine. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 These are prior to final decal application and removing some of those incorrectly applied at first build. Airfix's livery instructions were wrong ... What was wrong with the Airfix instructions? The ones I have in front of me are accurate for one style of early lettering - http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/e3fb3840d Of course there were many alternative ways of applying lettering. The Airfix instructions also correctly show the diagonal line aligning with the top of the hinge of the end door, and not the top corner - unlike some in your photographs and several other models illustrated in this topic. As is well known, Airfix mistakenly fitted brake rigging to both sides of the wagon, but did not model paired independent brake V hangers. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 im glad you mentioned the white stripe as that was something I had noticed and was going to ask about Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 What was wrong with the Airfix instructions? The ones I have in front of me are accurate for one style of early lettering - http://PaulBartlett....lweld/e3fb3840d Of course there were many alternative ways of applying lettering. The Airfix instructions also correctly show the diagonal line aligning with the top of the hinge of the end door, and not the top corner - unlike some in your photographs and several other models illustrated in this topic. As is well known, Airfix mistakenly fitted brake rigging to both sides of the wagon, but did not model paired independent brake V hangers. Paul Bartlett Hi Paul and Paul, the instructions were right AFAIR, it was the picture on the box that had the wagon number on the right hand panel. I was caught out with that all those years ago. Dave Franks. www.lanarkshiremodels.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I knew it wasn't the instructions, cos I don't read 'em Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Thanks Dave, my recollection was incorrect that it was the instructions, not the box art. You are correct the modern Airfix boxes did have this wrong - the 2 dozen mostly unopened ones I have are like that. But the real Airfix was in a plastic bag and cost 2 shillings. As to the diagonal marking I have had a look through my photo site (only part) and have managed to find a couple where the BR instruction was not followed and the stripe goes to the top corner, so 1 in 20 or 30 is possibly acceptable - although I suggest only after repainting from the first livery application. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted May 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 24, 2011 sandside, how did you go about doing the rust on those 2 on the left? A mix of weathered black and sleeper grime, applied with an old brush and then when still wet, CARRS weathering powder (once again, mostly black with a tiny amount of rust colour) blown over the painted patched and then sort of dabbed in with the old brush. This was then followed with a wash with dirty thinners and dry brushing. I was experimenting basically, but it seems to have paid off (this time) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 .....As is well known, Airfix mistakenly fitted brake rigging to both sides of the wagon, but did not model paired independent brake V hangers. ...and of those who built it correctly with rigging on one side, how many built it so that pressing the lever "down" would cause the brakes to go "off" rather than "on"? .....we've all been there..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 ...and of those who built it correctly with rigging on one side, how many built it so that pressing the lever "down" would cause the brakes to go "off" rather than "on"? Probably everybody, because it's not possible to model a strictly correct arrangement with the parts that Airfix provide - there's no Morton clutch on either brakelever I was experimenting basically, but it seems to have paid off (this time) Which is what it's all about IMO, experimentation. Though having said that, I don't believe technique is the be-all and end-all of weathering, there are often several possible ways to arrive at similar results. And perhaps paradoxically, the pursuit of individuality (as mentioned by Paul) is actually assisted by *not* doing the same thing every time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 more tarpaulined http://www.scars.org.uk/gallery/harnold/arnold7.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I cant recall ever seeing a bottom door 16t being used. any specific location they were used? and would they be kept together? If that Alfie location you linked to is a coal drop (the one where he's er... entertaining Millicent Martin in the back of the car) , I would think it likely that the one standing on top of there would have bottom doors. Unless anyone knows different of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) If that Alfie location you linked to is a coal drop ... I would think it likely that the one standing on top of there would have bottom doors. Unless anyone knows different of course. A fair bet, Stuart. The leftmost one (unless refloored, which did happen with heavy body repairs) will have bottom doors as it's a non-top flap wagon (either an MoT diagram 1/102 or an LMS D2109). The second one in might have, it seems to have some sort of white marking on the side door although it's understandably not clear. That said, I'm sure wagons without bottom discharge got sent to drops occasionally and had to be shovelled out via the side doors [Edit to remove double posting due to IE6 slow responses] Edited May 25, 2011 by Pennine MC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 loaded with scrap.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/5412961825/in/photostream 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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