Fat Controller Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I was hoping some sort of recollection would come forth Mike, but my impression FWIW is twofold: one, that the original designs simply duplicated the concept of the many wooden 13 tonners (which also generally had bottom doors), and the second being of somebody having the vague idea that they could be used on coal drops in the absence of hopper wagons (albeit still with shovelling involvment, inside the wagon). It's probably not coincidence that the LNER 16 tonners were the only pre-BR ones to not have bottom doors, and possibly the adoption of the LNER 21T hopper as a BR type was a significant factor in the decision to stop building 16 tonners with bottom doors (though that's only a theory, I'd have to check specific order/build dates to even begin to back it up). As for them being run together, again it's possible but in the typical 'train shot', it's difficult to tell; at the time that this would have been happening (if it was), they'd have been mixed in with ex-POs Some thoughts about this:- a lot of the coal depots around the London area that had coal cells/drops used wagon turntables to feed stub roads at right angles to the main tracks (the ones illustrated at King's Cross/St Pancras, and the ex-LMS one at Walworth Road being examples). These wouldn't have been able to accomodate the longer 21t hopper. The demise of the drops themselves is probably connected to the rise of smokeless fuels after the introduction of the Clean Air Act of 1956; the various smokeless fuels don't take well to being dropped from a height, and the resultant powder doesn't burn well in an ordinary open fire. Whilst the new Coal Concentration Depots used hopper unloading, the drop from the wagon to the surface of the conveyor was relatively small, and so less prone to damage the load. One drops that did survive (indeed, it is still there, but disused, I believe) is the one at Mile End, between Stratford and Liverpool Street. This was rebuilt with the unloading tracks parallel to the running lines, and used for unloading sand from Marks Tey- when this traffic started, Modern Railways did an article on it, showing the old and new arrangements. Curiously, the coal depot here seems to have also had low-level tracks serving individual coal merchants, and using normal unloading methods. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 interesting scrap loads http://www.flickr.com/photos/74009/4725465410/in/faves-phill_dvsn/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2011 interesting scrap loads http://www.flickr.com/photos/74009/4725465410/in/faves-phill_dvsn/ They look like tipplers to me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 They look like tipplers to me? I think I can see the ribs over the end door on that second wagon, and a slight gap between the door and the crossmember over it on the nearest one - dont forget if they're rebodied minerals, they wont have top flap doors. That said, tipplers were sometimes used for scrap, particularly from the mid 80s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 If you open it at the largest size the third one has ribs too. Cracking pic Mike ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 a good way to make use of those cut off Bachmann cabs and dont worry if its not 16t minerals. iron ore ipplers, 21tonners even hoppers are welcome, just as long as its steel and rusty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2011 Handy for those who have replaced the cab... a few slices, a dunk into hot water, maybe some MEK and Roberts one of your parents brother. PS I concede - I see the end door ribs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 good shot for iron ore weathering http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2138803418/in/set-72157603559145841 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 My efforts 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted June 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2011 There nice Alan. Just out of interest how do you light your layout? Regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 a good way to make use of those cut off Bachmann cabs and dont worry if its not 16t minerals. In the 1970's - 1980's the scrap traffic to Queenborough & Sheerness was always in 16t mineral wagons - usually two trains a day , one in the early AM from Temple Mills, the second in the early PM from Acton - this one usually carried the scrap generated from Swindon Works - frequently saw entire cab fronts of class 25's or Peaks in this train. Occasionally the trains would return with the odd wagon having gone MIA at the steelworks !!!!!! SM46 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Very little remains of my short dalliance in the mid-90s with British Railways Eastern Region in 7mm circa 1958-62, and I've very few photos of that project. 16T minerals of the period I always found hard to capture - easier to go to town on the weathering, but most in that period weren't utter rust-buckets, and capturing the subtlety of the rust breakouts and the overall weathering on wagons just a few short years or months old is quite a challenge. Back then I failed utterly and always overcooked it, the condition of this old thing would be more at home in the mid-late 60s (and later), and the photo shows the beginnings of some of the techniques I later spent hundreds of hours trying to hone (I got better, I hope!), and was one of the last of the pack to get sold on. If I had some more to do now I'd swot up on Pennine's techniques as his results are, to my eyes, spot on. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Cheers for that Adrian I'd have to up my game if I was modelling in 7mm though, those textures are excellent. As you say, it can actually be easier to produce something heavily rusted. Most of the moderate rusting I see on 16 tonners suffers from being there in isolation - it's often large 'cowpatches', without any toning down of the background panel or any light flecks and scrapes to give it context. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 A slightly closer look Nick the layout has no special lighting, just the bulb in the centre of the room. It is something that I have thought about. The photos are taken with a Nikon D50 DSLR] with the aperture set for the greatest depth of field which leads to an exposure time as long 20+ secs. More recent photos have been taken with a photoflood meaning exposures are down to less than a sec. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted June 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 11, 2011 Nick the layout has no special lighting, just the bulb in the centre of the room. It is something that I have thought about. The photos are taken with a Nikon D50 DSLR] with the aperture set for the greatest depth of field which leads to an exposure time as long 20+ secs. More recent photos have been taken with a photoflood meaning exposures are down to less than a sec. Cheers Alan that's really useful. Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 weathering inspiration from the British transport films.. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Some very good shots there Michael. I particularly liked the motive power refuelling point.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Work in progress on a Bachmann welded and a Parkside Dundas riveted 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted June 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2011 weathering inspiration from the British transport films.. Not being well versed in 16 tonner's, what is the 'r' shaped figure beneath the tare? never noticed it before on any wagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Work in progress on a Bachmann welded and a Parkside Dundas riveted Looking good Duck, how is the flaking achieved? Not being well versed in 16 tonner's, what is the 'r' shaped figure beneath the tare? never noticed it before on any wagon. I'm not sure but I think it's something to do with tyre profiling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm not sure but I think it's something to do with tyre profiling It's in the position where I have seen flange/tyre profile information marked on some wagons so I incline to the same view plus I can't recall ever coming across it in any operational sense and it doesn't seem to be mentioned in any of the operational documents of that era where it ought to be mentioned in the event of it having an operational meaning (if you see what I mean). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 heres another with an L marking and one with the black on the ends over the buffers. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Looking good Duck, how is the flaking achieved? Thank you sir! I adapted a version of Martyn Welch's method of dabbing Maskol over a rust-coloured base, brushing over it with the body colour before plucking the Maskol away when dry. Instead of Maskol I used Fixo Gum – a mild artists rubber adhesive gum – and applying it with a small stiff brush allowed for some reasonably fine stippling. A thinned coat of Phoenix Precision enamel was brushed on and given 24 hours to dry. In the meantime, I left a fair amount of the gum in a jam-jar lid, allowed it to set and then rolled it into a ball. Instead of plucking off the gum from the wagon with tweezers, I rubbed over the surface quite firmly with the gum ball – with a pointy end to get into corners! The few stubborn bits were removed with a sharp scalpel blade. I would imagine it takes a fraction of the time compared with using the tweezer method and it was a first attempt, so I think it's worth experimenting with paint viscosity to try to get the flaking finer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 cheers Muckyduck some more prototype inspiration http://www.flickr.com/photos/johngreyturner/4163992666/in/photostream Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 It looks like the black area over the buffers is for chalking. Maybe the wagons were weighed after loading and chalked? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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