RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2011 It looks like the black area over the buffers is for chalking. Maybe the wagons were weighed after loading and chalked? I can see the sense of it - useful in all sorts of places from colliery screens to sidings to shunting to tipping and so on- but obviously not a universal thing so i wonder if it was confined to a particular repair point or area for local reasons? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I can see the sense of it - useful in all sorts of places from colliery screens to sidings to shunting to tipping and so on- but obviously not a universal thing so i wonder if it was confined to a particular repair point or area for local reasons? I know some collieries had a habit of using 16 and 24 tonners as temporary storage containers for stockpiled coal. Maybe they painted the black areas on the wagons to record the nett weight of coal on each. Looking at the photo, the left hand chalking looks like it says 15/2. Maybe it has 15 tons and 2cwt of coal in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 In Baby Deltic picture there is an E after the 15/2 could this relate to 15th Feb Examined. The other corner has what appears to be OK - so OK to run? Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2011 The chalking could be anything! The '15/2E' could mean 'No.15 road, 2 empty (wagons)', or '15(wagons) on No.2 east', or 2 examined or whatever you can think of beginning with 'E' although I reckon 'empty' or 'examined' are the most likely with 'east' being probably next in line? The 'ok' could refer to a C&W exam as either fit to run or fit to load or it might even mean fit to tip or tipple. The possibilities - albeit within the usual realms of railway working of course - are endless but once upon a time someone (or more like several someones) somewhere knew exactly what it meant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I adapted a version of Martyn Welch's method of dabbing Maskol over a rust-coloured base, brushing over it with the body colour before plucking the Maskol away when dry. Instead of Maskol I used Fixo Gum Thought it might be something like that; not something I've ever been inclined to try, I must admit The chalking could be anything! ... The possibilities - albeit within the usual realms of railway working of course - are endless but once upon a time someone (or more like several someones) somewhere knew exactly what it meant Absolutely, it's just some sort of local shorthand (dont we all have this sort of thing in our day jobs ). Those who needed to know, would know... I can see the sense of it - useful in all sorts of places from colliery screens to sidings to shunting to tipping and so on- but obviously not a universal thing so i wonder if it was confined to a particular repair point or area for local reasons? I cant see it being localised Mike, not with the mahoosive number of wagons and lack of control potentially involved. It's something I've seen in other photos from maybe around 1962 or so, and was also applied at the door end (on the bottom box section); obviously as wagons rusted it wouldnt be so obvious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 some more I think this last one is heading towards Wicker goods Sheffield? 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 not a 16tonner, but shows how they could be unloaded. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted June 23, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2011 There are 2 guys riding down with that wagon and they're there when it tips, I'm sure it was safe enough but even so, scary! Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 the set up looks very similar to that at Garston in Liverpool. there is a very good colour photo of grey 16tonners being unloaded at Garston in 1977 in "seaport city" by Neil Cossons and Martin Jenkins also a good series of 1960s colour shots of 16t wagons being tipped up at Bramley moore dock Liverpool , there the wagon and its track where lifted and tipped by a crane. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2011 I cant see it being localised Mike, not with the mahoosive number of wagons and lack of control potentially involved. It's something I've seen in other photos from maybe around 1962 or so, and was also applied at the door end (on the bottom box section); obviously as wagons rusted it wouldnt be so obvious Interesting that Ian. I can't recall seeing it on any wagons in our neck of the woods but then i wasn't looking at the business end of such things until c.1967 and then very much more so in the early 1970s hence my wondering if it was some sort of 'localised' (albeit 'local' in possibly Regional or group of repair locations terms) idea. As other pics in this thread have shown, and as you already knew, chalking on wagon ends was quite common but especially so in older hump/mechanised yards of the type where the tower operator needed to know which roads the cuts were destined for and worked off numbers chalked on wagon ends which was far simpler than remembering a list. So perhaps that sparked off use of the black patch where such yards were commonplace and busy - but that is no more than speculation on my part. I feel a photo hunt coming on but have drawn a blank on my 1973 picture at Radyr. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 question regarding painting kit built wagons, or even RTR if they feel the need. whats peoples prefered way of painting the grey? best model paints to go for, or car based sprays, the grey seems to have a bit of a blue tint to it, are there any good matches for it? Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 the wagon being unloaded reminded me of this shot, a little bit on topic, just wanted to include it http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1281 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted June 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2011 I think this last one is heading towards Wicker goods Sheffield? Yes, Grimesthorpe shed/Sheffield freight terminal on the left. It will be dropping off the minerals at one of the steelworks along the way most probably. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 heres another with an L marking and one with the black on the ends over the buffers. The markings under the tare weight indicate the year of paint/repaint. There were a short series of different symbols, so they repeat. I believe it started with the LMS. I must admit I have never noticed the large black patches on the end of a mineral before. As to Michael's request about how to get BR 1950s grey. I await responses with interest as I don't know, the few advices I have seen and some I have followed up I haven't agreed with. A very elusive colour and not in any of the railway paint collections. Paul Bartlett 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 I think the shade the GCR windcutters are painted look a bit whiter aswel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Yes, Grimesthorpe shed/Sheffield freight terminal on the left. It will be dropping off the minerals at one of the steelworks along the way most probably. thanks, managed to find it on google earth,seems strange there are 2 signal boxes so close. looking the other way. some more, thats the same wagon as before with the black markings on the right and others that are related. iron ore wagons at Manton 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 question regarding painting kit built wagons, or even RTR if they feel the need. whats peoples prefered way of painting the grey? best model paints to go for, or car based sprays, the grey seems to have a bit of a blue tint to it, are there any good matches for it? Car grey primer is OK-ish but usually a tad dark IMO. I'd need to check at home to be sure of the number, but when this has come up before I've said I've settled on Revell (#76) for repainting Bachmann, or the raw Airfix plastic for a wagon receiving any amount of rusting (as per the two pictured above). This is for mostly mid- '60s to turn of the '70s wagons, anything rebodied or replated post-1970ish will be Rail Grey anyway. As to whether they're 'correct', I wont really be drawn further, partly as there were so many shades of grey in use anyway but mainly because anything beyond the most basic weathering will introduce further shade variations; I have wagons base coated with #76 that after treatment, look completely differnt to each other, which I'm quite happy with Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 ive got a can of JLTRT br diesel roof grey. which is quite bluish, not sure how far off that shade is. Ive just primered an old Hornby wagon body and will give it a try Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I just assumed – wrongly it appears – that Phoenix Precision P.126 BR Freight Wagon Grey would be the same used for mineral wagons. Well, you know what they say about assumptions… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 experiment using JLTRT br roof grey on a old scrap Hornby body, this was maroon plastic, primed with halfords grey which as pennine mentioned above is too dark. I think it looks good, hard to get colours in photos but in real life it certainly has that slight bluey turquoish tinge to it, its not a flat grey put it that way. im holding it up to the screen and it looks lighter in the pic. will experiment with weatering to see if it still looks ok etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ive primed the blue Hornby wagon in the above shot to give a comparison and took them outside for a photo in natural light. I remember when I first painted this jltrt roof grey on a diesel roof and I didnt think it looked right at first, but then when all the other colours where painted it looked right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 I just assumed – wrongly it appears – that Phoenix Precision P.126 BR Freight Wagon Grey would be the same used for mineral wagons. Well, you know what they say about assumptions… well yours look absolutley spot on, im only playing about with what Ive got to hand. did you brush or spray your wagons? if spray whats the phoenix precision enamel stuff like to spray with? just looked jltrt also do a wagon grey. Im not so sure now with this colour comparing it to the pics, but as I say its all just an experiment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 my first try of the gouache technique. so be kind using some burnt sienna, ivory black and red oche. the only thing I havent got which ive seen mentioned when using this is maskol, I havent got any so using water. if you put it on with the water it spreads out and goes into a sort of rust pattern. been rubbing off with a tissue and starting again and trying again etc. this is a quick shot after 5 minutes of playing about with it. I need to go and read up again on hows best to use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Thanks Mike. To be honest I didn't give it too much thought except that Bachmann's grey was too dark for me, so I bought what I assumed to be correct. I brush-painted my wagons and the paint was thinned quite a lot. I haven't tried Phoenix with an airbrush yet…with any luck I may finally do so on my 504 EMU over the next few days. I'll be interested to see how you get on with the gouache and I also have some acrylics which I haven't yet had the courage to use either! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactustrain Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 This is one of my Bachmann 16Ts on Byworth weathered using Gouache. It's come out okay, but I think it's better combined with other techniques. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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