Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 good stuff, been playing about with the gouache. this is how one side looks and how it looks when starting, if using too much water it moves about, but getting the hang of it now, easy to wipe away and try again. at first I was thinking uh oh! it drys quick tho and can build up layers. heres the other side after a bit of playing about, can still add more, and will need to work out best way to varnish it as even though it seems dry can still wipe it off. Im liking them so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 that first photo above was to show how it shouldnt look by the way the grey isnt right, looks ok on the bench with nothing around, but put it on the layout next to other stock and under the lighting and it looks far too blue. but as I say, this is just a practice of an old scrap body, Im still playing about with the gouachhe and starting to get the hang of it. ready for when I build a batch of 16tonners. also playing about with spare modelmaster decals to see how they react when using the gouache Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 ... Gouache... I think it's better combined with other techniques. Neither myself or Martin (Pugsley), the two of us who have probably most popularised it on here, would claim it's a panacea - to me it's like powders, in that it's essentially a tool for adding more varied finishing effects, rather than a basic weathering medium like 'proper' paints. Part of the reason for this is that both are mediums that need some texture to adhere properly - Mike's experiments look OK but I wouldnt like to say how durable those large areas would be, over time. You're always going to be better IMO learning how to use enamels or acrylics to do the bulk of your weathering, rather than seeing new or fancy media as a salvation also playing about with spare modelmaster decals to see how they react when using the gouache If they're set well enough, you should be able to tone them down with a thin wash of gouache - load a small amount of the wash onto a fine brush and apply it carefully with the point 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 I think I agree, its looking like its good for different textures, but I was thinking as I was practising that I could do with a base coat of grime, especially large areas like the inside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 not a very clear shot, but its interesting and its got 16t mineral wagons in it so it counts http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/images/Newspaper/Negas%20Examiner%2009-12-04.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 looking at the wagon I was playing with with fresh eyes in the morning, doesnt seem as good, but can see improvement. rail Geoffrey Jones, note how the stripe is turning yellow, Ive noticed this somewhere before, because of the rust I imagine, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 rail Geoffrey Jones, note how the stripe is turning yellow, Ive noticed this somewhere before, because of the rust I imagine, It's also had some patch painting (not uncommon), below the stripe and on the bottom part of the door. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 This is one of my Bachmann 16Ts on Byworth weathered using Gouache. It's come out okay, but I think it's better combined with other techniques. I would disagree with that. With a bit of practice, and using multiple layers of different colours, I think you can get a good result with gouache alone. For example, all the rust you see in this picture is just gouache (sorry, I've not done any minerals, so a Sealion will have to suffice). Work progressively from light to dark, whilst working inwards at the same time. I guess you'd do your average 16 tonner by joining a lot of smaller patches together, which would give the tonal variation to the rust. HTH 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Ive been having a go at the other side, still no where near perfect, but just practice. this time using screenwash rather than water recommended by Pugsley, with the result it doesnt pool, it flows better and it seems to dry quicker. Ive sinced rubbed the panels with the little spots of rust away and Im trying again, looked ok, but after seeing the photos I wasnt too convinced. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 tarpaulined, Temple mills, 1960 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirty2a Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 my humble 1st attempt at an O gauge Parkside. I have not added any numbers as yet. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 nice iron ore tippler train shot. http://www.flickr.com/photos/tcs-pics/5626862434/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 nice iron ore tippler train shot. http://www.flickr.co...ics/5626862434/ And an unusual location, as one of the comments says; I saw that not long after checking out that '40 on parcels' shot B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 1 or 2 in this clip http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=83384 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 My own attempts, 3 different scales, ...................................... and three different techniques for weathering them! 7mm is an ABS kit, OO is pure baccy and the N, Grafar of course. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 excellent blackrat. some more prototype inspiration. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ian_08623/5224029037/in/photostream Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted July 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2011 Not a 16T Mineral but it doesn't have to dirty to be realistic. This 21T was photographed at Derwenthaugh Coke Works loaded with newly made coke. It was one of a pair in that condition. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 My own attempts, 3 different scales, ...................................... and three different techniques for weathering them! Quality work there BlackRat… nowt like a bit of 'spreading it about!'. Just topped-off my first pair using some of the three-link couplings I bought from you last year! my 16Ts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 Not a 16T Mineral but it doesn't have to dirty to be realistic. This 21T was photographed at Derwenthaugh Coke Works loaded with newly made coke. It was one of a pair in that condition. one thing I noticed is that when I was a kid and used to weather coal wagons, they'd be abosoltuley caked in black, my dad saying they have coal in theyll be black. but from all the pics Ive seen over the years since of steel wagons, they dont seem to get that dirty with coal dirt, not so much that theyd be pure black anyway. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 . This 21T was photographed at Derwenthaugh Coke Works loaded with newly made coke. Probably one of the best photos I've seen of one of those - it's one of the early 70s Shildon rebodies on various 21T hopper underframes. Note the subtle Shildon differences - the uprights are wider in section, the top lip is narrower but continues at the same thickness over the end door Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Not a 16T Mineral but it doesn't have to dirty to be realistic. This 21T was photographed at Derwenthaugh Coke Works loaded with newly made coke. It was one of a pair in that condition. Cracking photo - by a curious co-incidence I scratchbuilt one of these rebo 21t wagons using a parkside u/f today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted July 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2011 Here is the wagon preceeding the one I posted above. Again in pristine condition. I wonder how long they stayed like that. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 and my scratchbuilt example has completely missed the thinner top rail and the subtle thinner strapping on the side door edges compared to the upper & lower strapping - never mind - it'll be right for the next one. Does anyone have any spare end doors that they would willing to part with for a small consideration please ? Regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Here is the wagon preceeding the one I posted above. Again in pristine condition. I wonder how long they stayed like that. The '71-72' rebuilds looked reasonable for a year or so before rusting; the later rebuilds of both 16 and 21 tonners were rusted through very quickly. I have a feeling they'd only been 'shown the paintbrush', as Nan used to put it. The wagons used for shipping coal in South Wales used to rot along the bottom of the sides and ends, due to standing with wet anthracite duff in them- the loading points used to bung the holes with straw (a bale of which is visible in one of Paul Bartlett's views of Cynheidre, IIRC). The 'last straw' (sorry..) for these wagons would be when they encountered the scrap bay magnets at Duport or Landore- quite a few bodies ended up in the furnaces there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 The '71-72' rebuilds looked reasonable for a year or so before rusting; the later rebuilds of both 16 and 21 tonners were rusted through very quickly. I have a feeling they'd only been 'shown the paintbrush', as Nan used to put it. The wagons used for shipping coal in South Wales used to rot along the bottom of the sides and ends, due to standing with wet anthracite duff in them- the loading points used to bung the holes with straw (a bale of which is visible in one of Paul Bartlett's views of Cynheidre, IIRC). The 'last straw' (sorry..) for these wagons would be when they encountered the scrap bay magnets at Duport or Landore- quite a few bodies ended up in the furnaces there. I think my collection of these new bodied MDOs http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mdorebuiltrenumber is of more general interest in showing how mineral wagons 'weathered'. Therefore give some guidance on the earlier mineral wagons, which were not photographed too much in their early days. They remain in quite good condition for several years, but once rusting starts it appears quite rapid, so that it can end up like . The Derwenthaugh photos are interesting, not least in that the numbers are so different, whereas they appear to be newly released to traffic. But some are quite difficult to explain, such as this 7 year old wagon http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mdorebuiltrenumber/h1acbc71e#h1acbc71e which has the area over the number panel apparently completely rusty, whereas the remainder of the body is in goodish condition (and the frame remarkably clean). I must admit I think trying to reproduce weathering on mineral wagons in their first few years of life is quite difficult. On interiors, these wagons may have been painted internally when new, I suggest this because of the appearance of this wagon http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mdorebuiltrenumber/hd4335a5#hd4335a5 and the many around it (which except for the one in the right foreground all appear from the narrow capping strip to be rebodied MDO). Description and drawings of the rebodied 21 ton mineral wagons were published as Larkin, David & Mann, Trevor (1983) British Railways 21 ton Mineral Wagons - the rebuilding programme. Model Railway Constructor vol. 50 (part 596) pp 708 - 711 & 697. Drawings - Double door welded rebody; single door welded rebody. The earlier unrebuilt were in Larkin, David & Mann, Trevor (1983) British Railways 21 ton Mineral Wagons. Model Railway Constructor vol. 50 (part 595) pp 637 - 641. Drawings - Welded double door diag. 1/107; Riveted double door diag. 110; VB double door with SAB diag. 1/120 and manual load diag. 1/119 Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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