DonB Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 20 x 11.…Ideas for a diorama, 4mm/ft scale Inspired by Hockley Transfer and Despatch Shed (1937/1938) Andy Y’s throw-away comment a while ago that it was unlikely that Members would keep on churning out layouts for an annual challenge, and that he thought that a diorama based on the year 2011 ie. 20” x 11” max. might be a suggestion, seemed to meet with a few favourable comments. There were some inspirational photos of Mikkel’s goods depot in his “Farthing Layouts” which he said were based on, among others, Hockley “very loosely”, I had look at the pictures of Hockley on the Warwickshire railways web site. The Receiving and Transfer shed caught my eye and I investigated the possibilities of fitting a representation into 20” x 11”. The prototype is a 7-road transfer (and consolidation of loads from various sources) shed with goods receiving facilities and attached office building in the mid / late 1930’s fitting my GWR and period interests. LINK http://www.warwicksh...wr/gwrhd686.htm A couple of quick sketches and some guesswork on dimensions showed that, in 4mm/ft scale, a maximum of 5 roads would JUST fit into the 20” width, with a token despatch track, a truncated goods receiving area and canopy, and also the length would have to be severely curtailed. Here Mikkel came to my aid again, he commented about making the viewer see inside his structures, rather than bird’s eye views. So I dreamed of a diorama structure viewable from all four sides, at eye level, possibly on a rotate-able base, with:- (1) a foreshortened blank wall (where the despatch siding will be.) (2) a narrowed front with 5 tracks (not the prototype 7 tracks) and foreshortened canopy, and a shortened and narrowed representation of the office building. (3) the receiving (road)-side with a shortened and narrowed canopy, with views into the interior (4) the back, without an end wall, completely open, allowing views of the interior with all its steel work etc. In essence it would be rather less than a third of the prototype’s scale length. The internal platforms would, I think, be rather narrower than scale, but I have no dimensions or plans to work from, just the photos linked above, and of course the prototype is long gone!. Since, apart from the despatch track, the entire area modelled would, I believe, be “out of bounds” to locomotives, (is that correct?, there are no smoke ventilation stacks visible in the photos.), so there is no provision for power to the tracks, although lighting inside will be necessary, I think. A Cad drawing needs producing to round out these thoughts…. Now where’s the CAD manual gone ????………… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted May 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2011 Looking forward to seeing this Don - and of course when it's finished we can display it at the Mickleover Show Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 That excellent periodical the GWRJ ran a six part series on Hockley - N°s 15-20 inc. N° 17 has some smashing interior photos of vans, clutter, road transport etc... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Gong to do it in the bombed out post WWII version ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Looking forward to seeing this Don - and of course when it's finished we can display it at the Mickleover Show Mike That'll be the 2015 show I assume? Although I didn't have you as a real forward planner! Dilbert..... Yes, Those issues of the GWRJ are recommended reading in the Warwickshire Railways pages. I'm looking for a sensibley priced set, or a loan from a trusting soul! The prices quoted in Amazon and Bookfinder fill me with horror, and threaten to dwarf the budget for this project! My mention of this requirement at the Mickleover Club ( deep in Midland / LMS/ MR of BR territory) was met with a stunned silence and disbelief! Kenton,..... Sorry, no! but I think from what little I know, that the replacement / additional shed, started in the late 30's, was the bomber's victim. An interesting thought there, such a model would nicely camoflage my poor modelling skills! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 If this is the same DonB that has done or doing a model of Ruddington, I very much doubt the lack of modelling skills at all! From the model work i have seen it is very good indeed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 If this is the same DonB that has done or doing a model of Ruddington, I very much doubt the lack of modelling skills at all! From the model work i have seen it is very good indeed! Nope! Not Guilty! Not this time anyway yer Honour! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 That'll be the 2015 show I assume? Although I didn't have you as a real forward planner! Dilbert..... Yes, Those issues of the GWRJ are recommended reading in the Warwickshire Railways pages. I'm looking for a sensibley priced set, or a loan from a trusting soul! The prices quoted in Amazon and Bookfinder fill me with horror, and threaten to dwarf the budget for this project! Try this http://britishrailwa...odical/gwrj.php - makes most of those Amazon prices look daft. Most of the copies you need are at the published as new price (£3.75 per copy) plus p&p. Usual caveat of no commercial ties with this trader, just a satisfied customer... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Construction decisions. Construction of 20â€x11†base. A piece of almost correct size 19mm ply was discovered in the loft. It was trimmed to size, and a frame of 25mmx18mm timber attached to disguise the ply edges. A CAD plan-view sketch now exists! Having got this far, do I lay track and platforms first, or build the shed shell? Materials for the main building structure. Initial thoughts are for card core, and Plasticard with brick relief inside and outside. (The inside is intended to be seen.). Jim s-w’s methods seem appropriate, must read them up again!. However, are my painting skills good enough to paint the brickwork realistically? Materials for the roof, canopies and roof lights (windows)??. The photos are unhelpful, particularly on the size of the roof glazing. Canopy brackets are a mystery! I hope that I can find some suitable etches. Materials for the structural “steelwork†inside, probably “Plastruct†or similar. Hopefully, advice will be obtained from an ex-colleague, who was a structural design draughtsman. The main spans will certainly have to be scratch built. Provision of an overhead crane, based on a partial view in one of the Photos (see http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhd708.htm) and personal knowledge of such equipment, but unlikely to be motorised, although possibly moveable. Track gauge? 00, EM, 18.83mm ?? Initial thoughts are for Code75, 00 flexi-track, I have some in stock, and time scale is likely to be restrictive of other choices. Ballasting material for the inside tracks? Provision of internal lights (LEDs?) Obtain suitable selection of vans to populate the tracks, a selection of Personnel, and suitable lorries and horse-drawn vehicles. I assume both GWR and local carriers would be present. And lots of in-transit bits and pieces! The rail vans will need to represent all the groups, as shown in the photos. EDIT to correct a link which didn't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Nope! Not Guilty! Not this time anyway yer Honour! Ah Sorry about that, there is someone on railway modellers website that has a name same as yours. http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14899 see where the confusion came from! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted May 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 17, 2011 Materials for the structural “steelwork†inside, probably “Plastruct†or similar. Hopefully, advice will be obtained from an ex-colleague, who was a structural design draughtsman. The main spans will certainly have to be scratch built. If there are lots of spans that are the same, what about getting them laser cut by York Model Making Co. If you can get some CAD drawings done then that saves time and cost as they don't have to translate a sketch into something the laser cutter can read. Details here http://www.yorkmodelmaking.com/bespoke.html Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Now got my sticky mitts on the appropriate GWJs, and find that my conception of the shed having 7 tracks was wrong! It is stated, and borne out by the OS map, that it had a six tracks. However the same map shows only 5 tracks emerging at the South end which is what I am hoping to represent. My plan therefore will only have the width of the platforms narrowed. I assume that there was a bay platform somewhere in the middle of the shed which I can convieniently ignore. GWJs have lots of interesting photos, but those of interiors are mainly of post-war vintage after "my" shed had been relegated to storage or been demolished, so guesswork prevails I think. Clarification in other threads of size requirements / restrictions means a modification to my base.... Drat! At least not started adding tracks and structures yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 so guesswork prevails I think. Modeller's license surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Modeller's license surely? My Mother told me that honesty was the best policy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted May 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2011 This is great stuff Don. Those photos from Hockley in GWRJ are extremely inspiring. I would have given my right arm to spend a whole day just sitting there and soak up the atmosphere and study the routines. Now thanks to your model maybe I can . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Thanks for the comments, Mikkel. About to start laying track and platforms are drawn out on card ready for me to weild a knife, entering uncharted territory . Don't know about routines....this will be unpowered and likely to be totally static! The exception might be the dispatch siding, but the only 57xx in my stable is not likely to win any prizes for authenticity...It's a "Gaiety" die-cast item from the 1960s! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 OH, DEAR!..... Starting again!! Up until now I've been doing my work on this project in the garage on a B&D Workmate, and had laid (no ballast) 3 of the 6 short lenghts of track. Transferring to the alternative workbench,(the dining table), I found a corner to corner warping / twist of the 19mm ply base, of about 6mm! Checking on a mirror glass confirmed the problem. The warp has proved highly resistant to "persuasion" and means that my proposed large building, occupying about 60% of the area, will not sit square on the base if I proceed. I have more ply to attack in store, so the logical thing is to start again with a FLAT piece of ply. (A lesson learned! Memo, Check and Check again!) Need to reclaim the track, reprint the diagram / plan and get busy. I've put in a wanted advert in the Marketplace here, and also at the club. A setback but not giving up yet! On the plus side, the platforms are cut ready to assemble when the track is laid and ballasted, the drawings of the shed walls are done, also drawings of the roof trusses. Still have not worked out how the roof glass will fit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Don - I would certainly consider framing the base if you can - I find plywood (particularly that purchased from the 'usual suspects' is quite prone to warping - even when edge-braced I lost my firstventry in the 2010 challenge to the same beast. I now use 9mm birch ply from a reputable timber merchant! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 "I would certainly consider framing the base if you can".... I have a selection of birch ply thicknesses to choose from. The original was 19mm and edged with 1.5" x 0.75" pine neatly aligned with what turned out to be already warped material! Chippendale I'm not! And I didn't have a flat surface to work on, It looked flat, therefore...... The edging is pretty firmly stuck, screwed and glued using clamps while glue set. It's easier to start again than fight the glue on what was fairly ancient ply. There again a choice, I've got 2" thick insulation (dense polystyrene), or MDF, or Chipboard, or ply, or some 0.5" soft-board (name escapes me). Decisions........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 A new base which is, I hope, flat, level, and twist/warp free, now exists. After a flurry of activity on a rainy Bank Holiday it now sports a plan and six lenghts of track glued dowm. The dreaded ballasting next! A photo will appear when ballasting and platforms installed. Not happy with my CAD drawing of the roof supports, a re-think is called for. I intend using Plastruct sections. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Ballasting postponed until I've done a trial piece, discretion being the better part etc... Looks like a busy W/E ahead, so Challenge Diorama takes a back seat, I'm afraid. So that I can feel that I'm actually making some progress, I mounted a print of the goods shed frontage onto a piece of Mr Kellogg's finest cardboard. Placed on the base it revealed a couple of pinch points where door openings need to be a little wider. In the lack of freight vehicles, I used some 4-wheel coaches intended for a Thomas layout which somehow never got there! These have 55mm wheel-base (scale 13'9" ), and will have to be my guide until I get some vans. I really must get a Syphon G/H to check again. Anyway to show what I'm talking about, here's a picture of the Kellogg card in situ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted June 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2011 Looks good, Don. Clearly it's crunch time (ouch!). Is the idea to view it from the front (as in the photo) or from the side (ie the goods-in area) or both? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Thanks, Mikkel. Your Farthing layouts were my initial inspiration leading to the idea of all-round forced high (eye?) level viewing. The shed will not have a back wall, allowing an inside view. I intend/hope to mount on a rotatable base, but haven't sourced that yet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Progress 3. Some progress made, the tracks are ballasted, and it’s now 9 days since laying the grit, spraying with water dosed with washing up liquid, then using an eye-dropper to apply the PVA / water / wash-up liquid mix. Other commitments meant it was then left in the garage. It has set like concrete! Since the tracks go from edge to edge of the board, and I needed to keep the ballast away from areas where walls and platforms will hopefully eventually appear, a sort of fence was made from Plastruct angle held down by drawing pins and low-tack masking tape, to limit the ballast spread. Actually the two RH tracks with the curves were ballasted using just the masking tape. Worked reasonably OK, I thought, at least until I saw the cruel photo, a far bit of tidying up needed! I used the darkest ballast I could find, the N gauge “granite†from Woodland Scenics, to try to imitate the generally dark ash-type ballast I believe was used in goods yards. (no doubt someone will be along to correct me!). Following the dummy run with the cereal packet front wall, a start was made on the LH wall, and offering this up to the dummy revealed that some strengthening would have to be incorporated into the corner due to the closeness to the corner of the first door-way , and care taken to get it all square, and maintain clearance from the tracks. It was always intended that buttresses would be featured on both walls at this corner, and this is causing a little head-scratching. The front wall is now cut and the outside has its covering of brick paper, and a photo of the two walls in situ is below. The front canopy has been cut as a one-piece and folded and assembled, the photo shows the first attempt where the corner triangular part was not correct due to a miscalculation! A bit of filling and sanding of the corners needed. Another feature I’m finding puzzling is how is that large canopy supported? None of the Photos that I have seen give a clue. Modeller’s licence rules here I think. Next job is the platforms, then the internal “steelâ€-work for crane and mezzanine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 Steep learning curves a speciality! A start made on the office building, sides drawn, printed and cut in a heavy card. Lots of little windows to “glazeâ€. Still not sourced the Plastruct sections for the various interior structures and the roof trusses. Not sure if I need the Plastruct before I assemble platform sections. However have bitten the bullet, and started on the platforms, if only to keep some momentum on what is proving to be a bigger, more time-consuming project than I first thought. The clarification of the size in the pinned Announcement thread that every thing, including supports etc., must be within the 20x11 inch size, means that the edging strips have to be removed from the base. They are only held by screws and have been temporarily taken off for today’s progress photo showing the platform sub-structures. They will be re-installed while work is in progress, they give me somewhere to pick up and hold the diorama, hopefully without damaging anything. A visit to a local model shop in search of Plastruct is scheduled to allow a start on the “steelâ€-work, which I feel is now starting to hold up progress, then there’s the other two canopies to worry about, and supporting brackets for all three which need to be designed, but nothing too complicated I think, simplicity rules!. Ahhh! Who said "Simplicity"?, ..... I’m contemplating making the whole roof as a removable unit, but how then do I prevent the two walls at the open end from moving or “sagging“? …. Answers on a postcard…… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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