RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted May 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 19, 2011 I'm planning a P4 build of a Franco-Crosti 9F around a Comet or a Bradwell chassis, and would like some advice. Firstly, was the Comet chassis designed to fit the Hornby 9F body? Is it the case that it (the Hornby model) is slightly inaccurate? ....(longer wheelspacings?) Secondly, are the Bradwell chassis wheelspacings prototypical? Thirdly is the Dapol/Airfix/Kitmaster kit considered accurate? Many thanks John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted May 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 19, 2011 Partial answer John, The comet instructions for the 9F chassis state the frames are designed for the Hornby model or Airfix/Dapol kit, but that they can be adapted for the Bachmann body (but it doesn't say how or what needs adapting ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Everything about the Bradwell chassis prototypical, except the number that are known to have been built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I can check the Bradwell chassis tonight if I can find where I put it (nice bring and buy bargain last year..)! I'll check if he says about any issues with the frames and a Crosti boiler. I can't imagine he'll have compromised the wb on something designed for P4. The DJH wheelbase was extended for 00 flanges, not sure about the Comet one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 The Comet chassis has a modified wheelbase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 The Comet coupled wheelbase is also stretched to accommodate OO wheel flanges. For my P4 model (which pre-dates the Bradwell chassis), I used Alan Gibson milled mainframes and associated coupling rods, which have the correct spacing (but i don't know if Colin still supplies these) and a mixture of DJH and Comet components for the valve gear. One problem with a dead scale wheelbase is that, like the real thing, the brake hangers have to be located between the back of the wheels and the frames, with the brake blocks mounted on an upward facing massive casting/forging to bring them in line with the wheel treads. The Bradwell kit replicates this, of course but the DJH & Comet just provide conventional etched hangers/brake blocks. As already said, Dave's kit is in every way more accurate and superior to the other approaches, but you might have to make some modifications to the expansion link support brackets, because I seem to recall these (or at least the LH one, with the reversing gear) are somewhat different on the Crosti locos. Good luck with it, whichever route you choose. Please keep us posted of progress. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempenfelt Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Thanks Craig once again for reminding me about that Bradwell chassis that I missed! John, with regards to 9f's these days my preference (and Craig's) is a Bradwell Chassis with Bachmann body, I purchased the latter from R.D.Panes at the Stoke exhibition last year for £20. I don't have any contact details but I know he was based in Mount Pleasant, Porth, Mid Glamorgan. Further spec details are motor in tender (Canon 1833), High Level tenderiser and Dave Franks tender chassis (once available). Good luck with the project, would be good to see a few more out there! Currently I've only seen 3 Bradwell chassis's made up in the flesh, i'm sure there probably are a few more! There was an example being demonstrated with Bachy body at S4N and Expo EM by Greg? of Steamlines Sheffield, very little modification required for it to fit. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempenfelt Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Sorry John, just read the OP and realised that the Bachy information is probably of no use to you on this occasion, hopefully it is a bit more useful to others out there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Good luck with the project, would be good to see a few more out there! Currently I've only seen 3 Bradwell chassis's made up in the flesh, i'm sure there probably are a few more! There was an example being demonstrated with Bachy body at S4N and Expo EM by Greg? of Steamlines Sheffield, very little modification required for it to fit The 9F that John Brighton and Greg Shaw had at Expo was not finish and had been heavily modified. The original springing arrangement had been taken out and underslung CSBs substituted. Not that it had not had the valve gear fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 The Bradwell wb is correct (Dave notes Romfords bind) and the prototype notes with the kit talk about the Crosti. Having a quick skim through the large wad of paper forming the rest of the instructions I didn't see any references to mods needed for the Crosti though or anything on the pages of diagrams. I don't know if this means you don't need to modify it or if Dave didn't intend to cover them or that im too tired to spot them at this time of night! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted May 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2011 John, let me know if you need any prototype info, I amassed quite a bit when I did my OO Crosti, no point in you doing all the research again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted May 24, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2011 Many thanks all. Much appreciated. Thanks Ian. I may be in touch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lyonesse Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I'd rather like a 9F (in P4) and am toying with the idea of getting the Bradwell kit and a Bachmann body. But has anyone actually seen a completed, running Dave Bradwell 9F? Even the one pictured on the S4 soc hosted Bradwell web site is incomplete, and of course there is no indication of how it might be motorised, or how it needs to be modified to fit under a plastic body. The picture on the S4 soc web site seems to include the front bufferbeam and the cab floor. But I thought the cab was hung off the boiler on the BR standards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) I'd rather like a 9F (in P4) and am toying with the idea of getting the Bradwell kit and a Bachmann body. But has anyone actually seen a completed, running Dave Bradwell 9F?Not me! Even the one pictured on the S4 soc hosted Bradwell web site is incomplete, and of course there is no indication of how it might be motorised,That is the sample Dave used on his exhibition stand. I took the photo at one of the shows when we first hosted his webpages. Last time I saw it the valve gear was still unfinished! or how it needs to be modified to fit under a plastic body.I would think more a matter of modifying the plastic body! The picture on the S4 soc web site seems to include the front bufferbeam and the cab floor. But I thought the cab was hung off the boiler on the BR standards?Certainly is hung off the boiler. I expect Dave wanted to include all the bracketry under the floor which is usually missing or severely compromised on the plastic models, bear in mind that Dave produced this before the Bachmann or the recent iteration of Hornby. You also asked about Kitmaster accuracy, I would put it as accurate in basic dimensions but by the time you removed all the bits that are wrong for a Crosti there would not be much left. The Hornby Crosti should be a much better starting point. For my P4 model (which pre-dates the Bradwell chassis), I used Alan Gibson milled mainframesNice to hear someone has successfully used those, I understand that the AGW milled frames were originally the Studiolith ones, in which case I drew the 9F ones, and my set is still waiting the roud tuit which I suspect will never arrive. Regards Keith Edited May 24, 2015 by Grovenor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I'd rather like a 9F (in P4) and am toying with the idea of getting the Bradwell kit and a Bachmann body. But has anyone actually seen a completed, running Dave Bradwell 9F? Even the one pictured on the S4 soc hosted Bradwell web site is incomplete, and of course there is no indication of how it might be motorised, or how it needs to be modified to fit under a plastic body. The picture on the S4 soc web site seems to include the front bufferbeam and the cab floor. But I thought the cab was hung off the boiler on the BR standards? A friend has just completed Two 5inch gauge live steam 9Fs to a high standard and the cab was supported by large girders and brackets from the frames. BR drawing SL/BR/884 Cab Arrgt shows support girders and brackets below the cab. Norman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 A friend has just completed Two 5inch gauge live steam 9Fs to a high standard and the cab was supported by large girders and brackets from the frames. BR drawing SL/BR/884 Cab Arrgt shows support girders and brackets below the cab. Norman Yes, it's a commonly held belief that BR Standard cabs were supported from the back of the firebox - I've even seen this stated in technical books. It may have been true for Britannias, Clans and even DoG, but the other classes had the cab firmly mounted to the chassis. Dave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I'd rather like a 9F (in P4) and am toying with the idea of getting the Bradwell kit and a Bachmann body. But has anyone actually seen a completed, running Dave Bradwell 9F? ... The "Blackgill" layout by Eddie Ford has at least two. Eddie Ford doesn't publicise his work; he just gets on and builds them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 My Bradwell chassised 9F would be finished if I could get the correct wheels for it and not just LMS/BR 2MT wheels. It is to be 92167 one of the stoker fitted ones for the long distance fast freights that ran up the S&C. One day.... Dave Franks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) The "Blackgill" layout by Eddie Ford has at least two. Eddie Ford doesn't publicise his work; he just gets on and builds them. But Arpster does: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6450-blackgill-tyne-dock-to-consett-in-p4/page-2&do=findComment&comment=115247 FYI one has a Bradwell chassis, the other Comet both being joined by another Bradwell about now. Here's a pic of the Bradwell and Comet versions Consett bound. My Bradwell chassised 9F would be finished if I could get the correct wheels for it and not just LMS/BR 2MT wheels. It is to be 92167 one of the stoker fitted ones for the long distance fast freights that ran up the S&C. One day.... Go on Dave get it finished. You could even stick a set of minilight alloy wheels on it and they wouldn't detract from the overall look of the Loco as much as the c*ck up that Bachmann have made along the top front of the Boiler/firebox interface on most of their BR Std locos. How it should look: How Bachmann have rendered it. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31927-Bachmann-9f-evening-star/page-2&do=findComment&comment=346508 (Scroll down to bottom photograph). I keep harping on about it but not all 9F wheels are/were the same and it's pretty easy to correct the crank throw on a set of Gibsons. If I can do it...blah de blah... For the umpteenth time here's a link to that pic again that shows at least two different 9F boss styles: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94832-exactoscale-wheels/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1886078 The Rickster and I were just this afternoon talking about whether it's worth drilling all the way through the axles to give the see through effect as seen here: http://bigkris21.tri...pg&target=_self You could even build it with the wheels a prototypical scale distance apart then you could give it a run next year at Glasgow. Porce Edited May 29, 2015 by Porcy Mane 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lyonesse Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Thanks for that. Looks like I'll have to get a Bradwell kit then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 My Bradwell chassised 9F would be finished if I could get the correct wheels for it and not just LMS/BR 2MT wheels. It is to be 92167 one of the stoker fitted ones for the long distance fast freights that ran up the S&C. One day.... Dave Franks. Got to be honest Dave, that's the reason I have not started mine...wheels aren't good enough for the chassis. I even know of a sprung, ball bearing Bradwell chassis, which has come to a grinding halt for lack of prototype wheels. I suspect that's the main reason for a fair number of Bradwell chassis not being built. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I'm revising the expected year when we might be blessed with proper 9F wheels from 2016 to 2020. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Got to be honest Dave, that's the reason I have not started mine...wheels aren't good enough for the chassis. [...] I suspect that's the main reason for a fair number of Bradwell chassis not being built. I think it was here that I learned that C&L's acquisition of the Exactoscale range first had to see off some competitive interest. The wheel range was fairly new and had the impression of some momentum, and cutting-edge execution. I was (still am) disappointed that no effort was made to capitalise on that. Evidently it had initially been financed to satisfy one person's requirements, but embracing a crowdfunding model could have kept the range expanding and relevant. The technical expertise on which this expansion would depend won't be available for ever! The Nim. Edited May 30, 2015 by Nimbus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 ..... I was (still am) disappointed that no effort was made to capitalise on that. .... ....and no further effort will ever be forthcoming. My feeling is that the range as it is today will still be the same when production ceases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 ....and no further effort will ever be forthcoming. My feeling is that the range as it is today will still be the same when production ceases. Minus tool casualties... The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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