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Modelling BR Blue


Dave777
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I am modelling 64-67 on the S&C in N Gauge, but as I was born in 1960, and  I therefore just remember both steam and Green diesels, and obviously the corporate Blue 70,s.  As a result I have purchased some Blue Grey Mk 1/ GUV, and  some Blue 45, 17, 50 , DMU to show the changes which were occuring on the railway at the time. It works well to break up a train with the odd Blue Grey and is very evocative of that late 60s transition period. However somehow running a full rake  of Blue Grey behind say a Britania, looks wrong to me, even though there are a number of pictures of this occurring.

Cheers

Mac  

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  • 8 months later...

I used to model BR Blue era in N gauge but when repainting locos, I found that specific BR Blue paint never looked right. However, if I repainted them in LNER Garter Blue they did look right. 

Maybe it was the light or maybe my eyes ... or perhaps I had some dodgy paint.

I might add that I was using Humbrol rail colour enamels not Railmatch. 

Is there such a thing as scale colour shade?

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5 hours ago, SGP said:

I used to model BR Blue era in N gauge but when repainting locos, I found that specific BR Blue paint never looked right. However, if I repainted them in LNER Garter Blue they did look right. 

Maybe it was the light or maybe my eyes ... or perhaps I had some dodgy paint.

I might add that I was using Humbrol rail colour enamels not Railmatch. 

Is there such a thing as scale colour shade?

Colour does scale, but I don’t think they produce shades based on scale 

Edited by rob D2
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  • 7 months later...
On 18/05/2021 at 10:21, SGP said:

I used to model BR Blue era in N gauge but when repainting locos, I found that specific BR Blue paint never looked right. However, if I repainted them in LNER Garter Blue they did look right. 

Maybe it was the light or maybe my eyes ... or perhaps I had some dodgy paint.

I might add that I was using Humbrol rail colour enamels not Railmatch. 

Is there such a thing as scale colour shade?

Late to the party, but I'd like to follow up on this, because many of the blue models I see don't look 'right' to me, colour-wise. The photo below is how I remember BR blue, but on many of the models I see the colour is perhaps too rich, or too dark, or too like Royal Blue. Can anyone recommend a particular brand of paint?

 

1274430092_08525(1986).jpg.9f5131d1f29956e5087d7b193f26a9bc.jpg

 

Edited by Barclay
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On 14/01/2022 at 14:09, Barclay said:

Late to the party, but I'd like to follow up on this, because many of the blue models I see don't look 'right' to me, colour-wise. The photo below is how I remember BR blue, but on many of the models I see the colour is perhaps too rich, or too dark, or too like Royal Blue. Can anyone recommend a particular brand of paint?

 

I'd agree with you in theory, but if you loot at @Waverley West's photos you'll see all his BR blue look about right and I suspect that's because he photographs them using natural daylight, whereas most of us are looking under electric light. Just a theory, I might be entirely wrong.

 

Derek

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I agree with Barclay that many models of BR blue locos look too dark, and I think there might be several things going on:

 

- absence of the de-saturation of colour that happens in reality when anything is viewed from a distance, caused by dust particles in the air;

 

- indoor lighting not matching outdoor lighting either in colour spectrum or intensity (even a gloomy day outdoors is often actually brighter than a brightly lit interior); and,

 

- lack of reflection, caused by using overly matt paint. Notice that even on the workaday 08 that Barclay shows the entire roof-top and bonnet-top renders as near-white, reflecting a near-white sky.

 

The last point is a particular ‘bug’ of mine, because I know full well that locos and coaches were not all grubby and matt, or even just matt, in the 1970s. Recently painted ones had a definite gloss, not ‘deep’ like something varnished but reflective nevertheless, and much stock and many locos were reasonably neat and clean, even long after painting. Things varied by area, and some stock picked-up distinctive dirt, but apart from parcels stock the ‘blue period’ was not one of universal ‘heavy weathering’.

 

Im a ‘southern region chap’, so best remember that area, and I don’t recall any resident locos being truly filthy. There were a few 08 that worked carriage washers that looked like stone-rinsed denim due to the amount of rhubarb juice they received, but the only horrible, oily, grubby locos seemed to be visitors from the LM and WR, notably class 31, and they seemed to be filthy inside and out, whereas the cab interiors of 33 and  73 were usually quite respectable. 
 

There is a good selection of colour views of 33 here https://www.kentrail.org.uk/Class 33.htm Notice how reflection dominates the apparent colour of the locos in anything other than really dull lighting conditions.

 

SR emus/demus did loose some of their gloss fairly quickly, because they went through the washer fairly regularly, and they picked-up brake-block dust staining where the washer flails didn’t reach very well, but the fact that they were washed regularly meant that they weren’t grubby all over.

 

Someone will now link to a photo of a seriously dirty 33, no doubt!

 

 

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On 21/01/2022 at 08:05, Nearholmer said:

I agree with Barclay that many models of BR blue locos look too dark, and I think there might be several things going on:

 

- absence of the de-saturation of colour that happens in reality when anything is viewed from a distance, caused by dust particles in the air;

 

- indoor lighting not matching outdoor lighting either in colour spectrum or intensity (even a gloomy day outdoors is often actually brighter than a brightly lit interior); and,

 

- lack of reflection, caused by using overly matt paint. Notice that even on the workaday 08 that Barclay shows the entire roof-top and bonnet-top renders as near-white, reflecting a near-white sky.

 

The last point is a particular ‘bug’ of mine, because I know full well that locos and coaches were not all grubby and matt, or even just matt, in the 1970s. Recently painted ones had a definite gloss, not ‘deep’ like something varnished but reflective nevertheless, and much stock and many locos were reasonably neat and clean, even long after painting. Things varied by area, and some stock picked-up distinctive dirt, but apart from parcels stock the ‘blue period’ was not one of universal ‘heavy weathering’.

 

Im a ‘southern region chap’, so best remember that area, and I don’t recall any resident locos being truly filthy. There were a few 08 that worked carriage washers that looked like stone-rinsed denim due to the amount of rhubarb juice they received, but the only horrible, oily, grubby locos seemed to be visitors from the LM and WR, notably class 31, and they seemed to be filthy inside and out, whereas the cab interiors of 33 and  73 were usually quite respectable. 
 

There is a good selection of colour views of 33 here https://www.kentrail.org.uk/Class 33.htm Notice how reflection dominates the apparent colour of the locos in anything other than really dull lighting conditions.

 

SR emus/demus did loose some of their gloss fairly quickly, because they went through the washer fairly regularly, and they picked-up brake-block dust staining where the washer flails didn’t reach very well, but the fact that they were washed regularly meant that they weren’t grubby all over.

 

Someone will now link to a photo of a seriously dirty 33, no doubt!

 

 

 

Growing up on the southern that's how I remember things too.

 

Hence my 33s and 73s are pretty clean

 

IMG_20210612_201907.jpg.8581e2dd9d9177c68394ad8ce6041139.jpg

 

167718554_IMG_20201006_1525372.jpg.019ce6c284794839f5cfd84279057062.jpg

 

And my 31s and 37s are horriblely filthy

 

1247553015_IMG_20200904_1233052(1).jpg.315caa0cef40dbb3f9811a8a01a51cc5.jpg

 

IMG_20210613_141203.jpg.9c7c828d3a25c59b6f03edb0b876a3d8.jpg

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

 

Growing up on the southern that's how I remember things too.

 

Hence my 33s and 73s are pretty clean

 

IMG_20210612_201907.jpg.8581e2dd9d9177c68394ad8ce6041139.jpg

 

167718554_IMG_20201006_1525372.jpg.019ce6c284794839f5cfd84279057062.jpg

 

And my 31s and 37s are horriblely filthy

 

1247553015_IMG_20200904_1233052(1).jpg.315caa0cef40dbb3f9811a8a01a51cc5.jpg

 

IMG_20210613_141203.jpg.9c7c828d3a25c59b6f03edb0b876a3d8.jpg

 

 

 


Some great weathering there and I agree with you both about the 33s, they were generally kept in fairly good nick compared to locos from other regions.

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I agree it seems hard to get BR blue right . Bachmann have been through a few shades, it always seems that it depends entirely on their photographic reference and everything that involves . IE a pristine model , but pristine as in actually a few years out of painting , but very clean . Absolute minefield . Most of them seem to get close other than Dapol .
 

Try looking at EWS red if you want real problems - most manufacturers seem to favour dried blood, as opposed to the quite vibrant red when new 

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  • 11 months later...

I use railmatch rattle can rail blue ,i think this is a very good match for rail blue with a slight greenish tint it is not flat matt and has a nice silk like sheen,i have tried useing humbrol railway colours rail blue but this is a very dark shade,i use the humbrol rail blue as an undercoat before spraying with railmatch!

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Humbrol Rail Blue enamel (HR135) used to be perfectly good in the 1960s/70s but the final batches (early 80s?) were not right, too pale and a bit green - I still have an unopened tin and I reckon somebody at Dapol must have had one too, and referred to it when deciding what shade to use on their first blue Class 22 releases (D6318/26/28), because they looked, well, too pale and a bit green, and therefore as wrong as the Class 73. 

The shade Bachmann used on their first diesel models was quite dark and a bit murky-looking. As @rob D2 says they went through a few shades (which causes issues when assembling coaching stock rakes from different production runs - ask me how I know.....!) and Kernow's 2007-released 37207 'William Cookworthy' was not far off IMHO, but recent releases such as the Peak Class 45/0s look almost too brilliant. 

And as for Hornby's blue/grey Mark 1s.........it's a 'no' from me 🙄!

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10 hours ago, Halvarras said:

Humbrol Rail Blue enamel (HR135) used to be perfectly good in the 1960s/70s

Still believe that's the best Rail Blue ever made, occasional unopened pots still turn up on sales stands and if they're only asking a modest sum worth a punt as even decades old can be perfectly usable.

 

Stu

Edited by lapford34102
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7 hours ago, lapford34102 said:

Still believe that's the best Rail Blue ever made, occasional unopened pots still turn up on sales stands and if they're only asking a modest sum worth a punt as even decades old can be perfectly usable.

 

Stu

I agree with you i remember useing humbrol rail blue in the 1980s and i always thought it was a very good match,i thought i would try out humrols latest rail blue as a cheaper alternative to railmatch but was rather disapointed as the old humbrol range from the 70s 80s was a much better shade,so back to good old railmatch ,

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Its great to see this rail blue interest group coming to life  again ,at the moment my work bench looks like Doncaster works nearing completion i have stratfords 31 148 with its infamous broom cupboard door stratfords 37 245 and old oak commons 31 121 a machine i just had to build a skinhead with snowploughs, this year i hope to build one of stratfords named eth 47s and a couple of  37s to renumber into east anglian allocated for a future layout based on Beggers bridge, 

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I grew up in the era of BR Blue, although I did catch the end of green diesels. It was only natural, therefore, that my model railway would be almost totally based on blue diesels and blue/grey rolling stock. My only concession to 'the past' is my station building, which is based on the 1883 LMS design that was, sadly, demolished in 1971.

 

Ian

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Hi everyone,

 

I have finally succumbed to modelling BR blue.  It's the era I grew up with.  I have tried before, in 00, and given up the ghost for a range of reasons.  This time around I am working in N and have some definitive ideas about time and place to model.  It'll be around the summer of '76 and somewhere in the Midlands to North-West.  The year is because of my soft spot for Class 24s that were withdrawn with increasing rapidity after then.  The place is also because of the 24s and the fact that I have purchased a Midland Region 101, and Eastern region 108 in plain rail blue.   Once I have an outline trackplan I will start a thread elsewhere.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Alex.

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13 hours ago, Alex TM said:

This time around I am working in N and have some definitive ideas about time and place to model.  It'll be around the summer of '76 and somewhere in the Midlands to North-West.

Alex,

 

Absolutely the way to go. If you choose a real location, it make the track design much easier as you simply follow 'the real thing' (simplifying as necessary). You also know that the layout 'works', or has real-life limitations. It has the added benefit of restricting your choice(s) of rolling stock, which is a good thing. It stops you buying too many types of locos and wagons! 

 

My layout is heavily based on Burton-on-Trent and the trackwork (& MPD) to the south of the station in the mid-1970s. This nicely limits my locos, and keeps me off all Hydraulics, Class 50s, and Deltics (and plenty more).

 

The only downside is that 'most' new RTR is not released in BR blue, or is incompatible with the mid-1970s. I get most of mine off TheBay. Keeps the cost down though!

 

Ian

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 21/01/2023 at 01:58, Halvarras said:

Humbrol Rail Blue enamel (HR135) used to be perfectly good in the 1960s/70s but the final batches (early 80s?) were not right, too pale and a bit green - I still have an unopened tin and I reckon somebody at Dapol must have had one too, and referred to it when deciding what shade to use on their first blue Class 22 releases (D6318/26/28), because they looked, well, too pale and a bit green, and therefore as wrong as the Class 73. 

The shade Bachmann used on their first diesel models was quite dark and a bit murky-looking. As @rob D2 says they went through a few shades (which causes issues when assembling coaching stock rakes from different production runs - ask me how I know.....!) and Kernow's 2007-released 37207 'William Cookworthy' was not far off IMHO, but recent releases such as the Peak Class 45/0s look almost too brilliant. 

And as for Hornby's blue/grey Mark 1s.........it's a 'no' from me 🙄!

Have been fortunate to actually been able to paint 12inches to the foot vehicles in the early 80s, the rail blue we used had a greenish tint to it.

 

Al Taylor

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>

On 10/03/2023 at 10:41, ISW said:

My layout is heavily based on Burton-on-Trent and the trackwork (& MPD) to the south of the station in the mid-1970s. This nicely limits my locos, and keeps me off all Hydraulics,

 

Worcester to Burton-on-Trent parcels services regularly brought Hymeks to BoT in the late 60s, although no idea if the general switch away from taking DHs off Western metals in the 70s protects your timeline from them

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1 hour ago, Captain Slough said:

Worcester to Burton-on-Trent parcels services regularly brought Hymeks to BoT in the late 60s, although no idea if the general switch away from taking DHs off Western metals in the 70s protects your timeline from them

My 'trainspotting' days started in the very late 1960s and, being young back then, I've no recollection of seeing any Hymeks, and my spotting books seem to confirm that. But, there again, I probably wasn't sufficiently serious back then either.

 

We did have one summer in the early 1970s when a Class 52 Western would operate a West of England service to/from Derby around lunchtime on a Saturday. And we had one summer when pairs of Hymeks would turn up on coal trains to/from Drakelow Power station (I think 3 pairs turned up). I've asked elsewhere on RMWeb about these Hymek movements, but no one else seems to have seen them.

 

I actually have a Lima (circa 1980) Class 52 still in box but, realistically, it shouldn't be operating through Burton-on-Trent. I'm not too limited, however, as I can run Classes 08, 20, 25, 31, 37, 44, 45, 46, 47, & 56 (plus Classes 24 & 40 at a pinch) in my modelling timespan.

 

Ian

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I started my spotting days when everything was blue , ended my bashing days just into sectorisation , current layout builds will mostly run blue with the odd green one thrown in although I may venture into railfreight/sector/dutch etc at some point although that will be for running sessions and not a layout devoted to that period 

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On 25/03/2023 at 10:40, ISW said:

 

I actually have a Lima (circa 1980) Class 52 still in box but, realistically, it shouldn't be operating through Burton-on-Trent. I'm not too limited, however, as I can run Classes 08, 20, 25, 31, 37, 44, 45, 46, 47, & 56 (plus Classes 24 & 40 at a pinch) in my modelling timespan.

 

Ian


If your time span includes 56s, then you can also justify BR blue Class 50s as they also appeared occasionally on cross-country trains from the West Country when there was no replacement available at New Street.

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