Weekday Cross Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Sincere thanks for the compliments, gentlemen! This project very nearly never happened at all. I was casually looking for some interesting track to build to test my skills in P4, when I came across the details of Lime Street engine shed in Jack Nelson's book "LNWR Protrayed". This was just after the 2011 Challenge was announced. I have never done very well in competitions, so initially, I ignored this one, but seeing Jack's plan made me immediately think it would make a fantastic entry - almost perfect for 2mm scale. Even so, I never expected it to draw much attention. Being in 2mm fine scale and pre-WW1 as well (if you ignore the diesel that keeps popping up in the photos) it ought, by rights, to be a minority interest, at most. Added to that, I am doing something pretty serious, whereas most other people are taking the Challenge in a far more relaxed way, which seemed to me to be more the spirit of the Challenge. Whatever, I am very glad so far that I have given it a go. I am also glad that I decided to try and do a really thorough job. For example, I already had a turntable from an old project - but I was not totally happy with it, so decided to push my skills to the limit and try a really detailed model. I am finding this approach far more rewarding than my previous approach of cutting as many corners as possible to get the project finished - and then finding I was not happy with the end result. The research alone has been really fascinating. As I have mentioned before, the project seemed pretty straightforward when I started, as Jack Nelson had planned it all out for me in his book. Only when I started to look in detail did I realise that there was far more to find out. I have come into contact with some very helpful people, without whose help I might have given up through a lack of detailed information. I knew relatively little about the general history of Liverpool, never mind its railways before I began the project. I have found in reality that it is a truly fascinating subject - and am keen to delve even deeper once this project is finished. Now I am addicted to Merseyside, I fear that before long I will be watching old episodes of Brookside on the Channel 4 On Demand service Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2011 Now I am addicted to Merseyside, I fear that before long I will be watching old episodes of Brookside on the Channel 4 On Demand service Repeat after me "Dhey Do Dho Dont Dhey Dho" and more importantly "Whats yer bevvy ?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 After taking a few brief elocution lessons (see the last post above) I got down to a bit more work on the turntable this evening. I have now added the handles used to push the turntable round and a mock-up of the mechanism used to lock the turntable in position. Here are the photos... Next, I will do the wheels. Then, the deck is just about finished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 looking great there are plenty of interesting modelable locations in Liverpool which seem to get overlooked by a lot of modellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 looking great there are plenty of interesting modelable locations in Liverpool which seem to get overlooked by a lot of modellers. Yes, Liverpool is pretty well where it all started, with Edge Hill and Crown Street on the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. Add the gridiron, Lime Street, Central, Exchange, the Mersey Railway, the Overhead Railway, all the tunnels, the docks and everything else too........ and you have far more than anyone could possibly cope with in a lifetime of modelling! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I had a go at profiling the turntable well, over the last 24 hours. Last night, I filled the well with ready-mixed plaster filler and left it overnight to dry. I then made a profiling tool out of brass and PCB, with a central pivot to get everything concentric. The black line in the photo below shows where the pivot is. The well at Lime Street appears to have had a fairly flat central portion with at least one grate for drainage. The next band sloped slightly towards the centre and looks as though it was laid with bricks or cobbles. The outer band was much smoother and sloped more sharply. There was a small but distinct drop form each band to the next. The idea was to rotate the profiling tool with my hands, scraping out the excess plaster to leave a well of the correct profile. At first, scraping was really hard-going. Then I tried moistening the dried filler, which made a huge difference. The photo shows the result so far - i thought it best to photograph it in reasonable daylight to emphasise the drop between the levels. Most of the variation you see in the photo is purely a difference in colour. The actual surfaces are very smooth, on the whole. There are just a few small air pockets to fill on the inner bands. On the outer band I did not quite fill the pit high enough with plaster in one or two places, but some quick corrective action should easily sort that out. I have now also made the wheels for the turntable. I hope to have a go at making the mountings and attach everything to the turntable tonight. The thick black washer in the turntable photo is just for the photo, by the way - it will not be part of the final model. Other good news is that my Easitrac order has now arrived from the 2mm Scale Association shop. That means I can start working out the various levels ready for installing the turntable and laying track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 hi Weekday cross, I told John Holden about this , very impressed with your work and research, he said this about the turntable. "When the turntable was electrically powered, there was a metal frame in the centre (A bit like American turntables), with slip rings to transmit the power to the table from the wall. The wall brackets are still there ! Also a little detail he could add are the marks on the corner of the retaining wall (just under Vincent street bridge by the accumulator tower). these were made by the ropes rubbing on the corner in the days when the cutting was "rope hauled" up to Edge Hill. The parcel lift mentioned on Platform 1 was hydraulically powered by the water from the accumulator tower" seeing what we can find with regards the buildings cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hi many thanks for the information - and for passing on John's compliments. One or two of the photos that Dave Pennington passed on to me show the metal frame on the turntable - very reminiscent of American practice! The information about rope marks is very interesting. I didn't realise that Lime Street was ever rope-worked. I do appreciate that Crown Street and the incline up from Waterloo goods were though. Isn't railway history fun! So was the Lime Street rope just to help locos up the steep grade, or was Lime Street originally operated like Crown Street, with gravity downhill and rope-hauled carriages (no locos) up to Edge Hill? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaternosterRow Posted July 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hi Weekday Cross Superb workmanship. Nothing but admiration for those who work in 2mm - my eyes are going and my hands too big for work in this scale. Can't wait to see all this coming together. Great research - you certainly know your subject. Looking forward to the next installment. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 So was the Lime Street rope just to help locos up the steep grade, or was Lime Street originally operated like Crown Street, with gravity downhill and rope-hauled carriages (no locos) up to Edge Hill? yeah it was up to Edge hill station where there was a pumphouse boiler room etc. similar to Camden bank- Euston Id imagine, Ive got some books which describe the workings but it was a little bit before my interest period so I cant recall exactly the workings. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 When the station was remodelled mid 80's they uncovered one of the wheels still in situ around platform five(?) As I understood it they were winched back up by a loco. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 The cable operation arrangements outside Euston are well documented here, in case anyone is interested http://www.crht1837.org/history/stationaryengines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Hi Weekday Cross Superb workmanship. Nothing but admiration for those who work in 2mm - my eyes are going and my hands too big for work in this scale. Can't wait to see all this coming together. Great research - you certainly know your subject. Looking forward to the next installment. Mike Many thanks for your compliments - and those of others too! I work in several scales and find you just get used to it, no matter how small, after a few hours. As for the size of my hands, a few hours filing soon reduces mine to the appropriate size I do enjoy research, especially since the Internet was invented. It is amazing how many dedicated people there are out there recording everything for posterity! We have to be realistic though - I think it would be impossible to get even a small project like this absolutely right. There will always be things that no one has recorded or people don't remember too well. Glad everyone is finding this interesting - so am I! Even I can't wait for the next instalment - and I'm building it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 Things have gone very slowly over the last few days due to real work getting in the way. Oh well, at least it pays the bills! Turntable Woes - and then Triumphs? I have been concentrating on the turntable, which needs to be more or less finished before I can get on with the rest of the layout. The position and height of all the other trackwork and scenery depend very much on exactly how it turns out. Disaster struck when I prepared the spindle on which the turntable will revolve. The brass rod I had chosen was slightly oversize for the bearings I had installed in the turntable bed. I decided to reduce the diameter on the lathe. I ended up reducing it to something slightly under size. I decided I could live with that, but then broke a drill in one end of the spindle when I was trying to drill a hole for the screw that would retain the turntable in place. Fortunately, I had another length of rod, so I decided it might be wise to start again! This time, I decided to adapt the bearing to suit the rod, rather than the other way around. I found a piece of brass tube just the right diameter to act as a bearing. I removed the existing bearings from the turntable base and re-drilled the hole for the slightly wider bearing that was to replace them. I then stuck the new bearing in place with epoxy adhesive. Fortunately (phew!) everything still seemed to be concentric! This bearing is better than the originals as it is one continuous length of tube, whereas the previous design used 2 separate, short bearings. I then prepared some bits from larger diameter brass rod to retain the spindle in place and hold the turntable deck on the spindle. The bit holding the turntable deck has a piece of PCB attached to it to make sure that the spindle is electrically isolated from the turntable. I made sure it was horizontal by skimming the top of the PCB in the lathe, once I had attached it to the spindle. There are 2 other discs which go below the baseboard - one to secure the spindle in place and one to secure the disc I have yet to make, which will activate the micro-switches controlling the polarity of the turntable. Fortunately, all went well, second time around! I have also painted the turntable well, as I was finding it difficult to see just how smooth and flat the surfaces in the well actually were. I am now debating whether to carve the cobbles that ought to be seen on the bottom surfaces of the well. These would only be about 1/2 mm square. Apart from it being a mind-numbing task, I am beginning to doubt if anyone would actually be able to see them on the model - except maybe with an extreme close-up shot from a camera. I am just in the process of finishing off the turntable wheels, which I should have in place by tomorrow. I have also begun filling in the insulation gaps in the turntable top, using primer paint. I will file down the first coat and then add a second - which should fill in the gaps completely. I have also cut a hole in the baseboard top now to accommodate the turntable assembly when it is finished. It is probably not worth doing another photo at this stage - better to wait another day or two, when everything should be ready for assembly, if not actually assembled. Going Loco? The replacement wheels have finally arrived for my Class 24 diesel, so I can now convert it to 2FS standards. On a separate thread, I have discovered that someone is building a very diminutive LNWR loco in 2mm scale - see http://www.rmweb.co....9-another-one/. (nice work, Natalie!) This is making me think I really ought to be building LNWR locomotives too - as the turntable disappeared long before diesels ever got to Liverpool Lime Street. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Today, I attached the turntable to its spindle for the first time. It is attached by a 12BA bolt screwing into the top of the spindle. I drilled the hole for the bolt on the lathe and then threaded the hole with a 12BA tap. I had to run a file along the underside of the turntable to get everything to sit horizontally, but it is OK now. I also finished the wheels and attached them, complete with cradles to the ends of the turntable. These are completely insulated electrically from the turntable itself, to avoid short circuits. The wheels do not revolve - the plan is for them to be suspended in mid-air, just a fraction above the rail around the circumference of the well. Finally, I began work on the brick wall lining the turntable well. This is made from plasticard. The inner layer is brick, whilst another 4 layers of plain plasticard have been added on top. I have made the assembly on a conveniently-sized paint tin. Once everything is set, I will remove the assembly from the tin and file the edges smooth. Soon, I hope to work out how to attach the turntable to the baseboard. I will make it removable, as there is still quite a lot of work to do - not the least being painting everything. Getting the turntable in position will mean I can draw the position of the trackwork on the baseboard. I can then begin laying track, which will be a big step forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Hi WC - Check out the low-revving motor units available (IIRC) Expo Tools. Should add the final touch! Super work & really looking forward to seeing the table in place. Regs Ian B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 Thanks for the recommendation, Ian - - but I am trying to be as environmentally friendly as possible with this one, so the TT will be manually turned. I have a selection of old gears, including some spares from old photographic processing tanks, for example - and even the mech of an old tachograph that someone gave me a number of years ago. Out of that lot, I should be able to work something out! No electricity consumed and recycled gears! How much greener can I get? The trains will have to be electrically-powered though. I can't see how I could fit a clockwork mech in a 2mm scale loco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 The t/t motor could always be powered by a solar array-powered re-chargeable battery! In fact the whole layout cold be powered from the same source... Caravan suppliers sell solar arrays for re-charging the car batteries used for non-site electrics? Regs Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 The t/t motor could always be powered by a solar array-powered re-chargeable battery! In fact the whole layout cold be powered from the same source... Caravan suppliers sell solar arrays for re-charging the car batteries used for non-site electrics? Regs Ian That's a very interesting idea Ian - but the emphasis is on recyclable, rather than green. I set out to use as much of what I already had as possible.B) I hope to have a reasonable day's modelling today, so hopefully will have good progress to report on tonight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 A good day today! The turntable pit wall was added and the PCB top stuck on. Then, the turntable well was stuck in place on the baseboard. I have also drawn where the tracks will be and stuck down a copper-clad PCB sleeper at the end of each turntable road. Amazingly, the total depth of the turntable well assembly was only a sheet of paper's width different to the thickness of the baseboard top, something I had not planned. This made the installation of the well very easy to do. I used epoxy adhesive, carefully protecting the working surface with polythene before I started. Here is a shot, complete with part of the shed building I did a while back. The turntable itself is still removable. The shine in the bottom of the turntable pit is due to painting. I still plan to scribe cobbles on the bottom of the well. I will then use thin washes of matt paint to tone down the existing colour and represent the cement between the cobbles. I have been experimenting with a pair of dividers to score the concentric rings around the pit. I will then scribe the individual cobbles in each ring. From my brief experiments, I don't think it will be as difficult as I originally thought. It will be good practice anyway, as the area around the water columns was cobbled too. Once the glue has set properly - tomorrow - I shall start laying track, though I must not forget to gouge out the ash pits on the roads leading into the shed first!. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted July 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2011 That's really coming together nicely now...you can get a good sense of the scope of the project and once the track will be in place, more so Will you still be able to have the sector plate / hidden sidings? I assume the engine shed will be self contained to screen the hidden sidings?... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hi, Really good work with your turntable. Would hate to see it spoiled if that timber base cups and warps. I had a similar bad experience and offer the warning whilst it's not too late ! Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hi, Really good work with your turntable. Would hate to see it spoiled if that timber base cups and warps. I had a similar bad experience and offer the warning whilst it's not too late ! Regards, Hi The base is some high quality and well-matured pine shelving I bought a few years ago. It is in fact a leftover from another layout, which was fine. It has a wooden frame which fits underneath to make it more rigid. I will, in any case be very prudent with watery things, so I hope it will be OK. Thanks for the concern, all the same - and thanks for the compliments about the turntable too. Being the centre of attention, I felt it was worth putting a lot of effort into it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 That's really coming together nicely now...you can get a good sense of the scope of the project and once the track will be in place, more so Will you still be able to have the sector plate / hidden sidings? I assume the engine shed will be self contained to screen the hidden sidings?... Hi The sector plate and hidden sidings are still fine - everything is pretty much as planned, thanks. The only minor change form the original plan is that the 2 lines leading to the sector plate will be slightly further apart to avoid electrical complications. There is a huge cutting wall and bridge to shield the sector plate and hidden sidings from view. Liverpool Lime Street is a spectacular place, to put it mildly The sector plate has already been made - did that late last night - and the location of the hidden sidings has been drawn out too. I will hopefully have another report tonight.. Many thanks for the compliments, everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 There is a huge cutting wall and bridge to shield the sector plate and hidden sidings from view. Liverpool Lime Street is a spectacular place, to put it mildly I forgot to add that the loco "shed" was only about 30ft deep - it was really only a "shed" in the sense that the large water tank covered part of the trackwork. Even most LNWR tank locos would stick out of the shed to some extent. Tender locos would stick well out. Apparently, there was a line of indentations in the cutting wall at the back of the shed where loco buffers had hit the rock face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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