Building an N gauge coach kit

[D869]

Etched Pixels. On another forum somebody has said that E.P. is open for business from today.

 

Looking at Alan's website it's showing most items out of stock, but I imagine he needs time to sort out what is what and actually available. As I said previously there will likely be an avalanche of orders from people who have been gagging for the resumption of business. There are items I would like but I can hold off for now.

 

I can't get his site to load today.

 

Must be that avalanche you were predicting.

[gobbler]

I've just caught up on this thread.

 

Hard to believe these are 2mm models

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Scott

[wellseasoned]

Hi,

 

Three questions;

 

1) What do people use for glazing?  I have been using some fairly rigid clear Plasticard between the coach ends, to provide something for the etched sides to adhere to. I have to get the height just right so that it does not impede the fitting of a roof

 

2) UHU Hart glue. I have read this is a good glue if you can find it. Any views on it please?

 

3) Has anyone ordered from Etched Pixels since his re-opening?

 

Thanks guys

 

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall

 

[Chris Higgs]

Hi,

 

Three questions;

 

1) What do people use for glazing?  I have been using some fairly rigid clear Plasticard between the coach ends, to provide something for the etched sides to adhere to. I have to get the height just right so that it does not impede the fitting of a roof

 

2) UHU Hart glue. I have read this is a good glue if you can find it. Any views on it please?

 

3) Has anyone ordered from Etched Pixels since his re-opening?

 

Thanks guys

 

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall

 

Real glass is the Rolls-Royce of  glazing. You can buy very thin microscope cover slides. Of course then you are talking about using a number for each coach.

 

Chris

[Karhedron]

1) What do people use for glazing?  I have been using some fairly rigid clear Plasticard between the coach ends, to provide something for the etched sides to adhere to. I have to get the height just right so that it does not impede the fitting of a roof

It depends on what I am glazing. For a model with a thin body (e.g. etched sides), I normally use the thin sheets of platic used for OHP (Over Head Projector) slides. An A4 sheet is quite cheap and will do a lot of coaches. Here is how it looks on the finished article.

 

 

If I am glazing something with a thick bodyshell (e.g. resin) then I use Micro Kristal Klear. This is a sort of very thick and rubbery PVA. You stretch a bubble across the window aperture and it dries clear. Here is how it looks on a loco and a signal box.

 

 

 

2) UHU Hart glue. I have read this is a good glue if you can find it. Any views on it please?

I have not tried this specifically but it looks like a clear contact adhesive so should be fine. I usually use normal contact adhesive or even the above-mentioned Micro Kristal Klear.

 

3) Has anyone ordered from Etched Pixels since his re-opening?

No, I have bought from him pre-closure and always been happy with the service though.

[DavidK71]

1) What do people use for glazing?  I have been using some fairly rigid clear Plasticard between the coach ends, to provide something for the etched sides to adhere to. I have to get the height just right so that it does not impede the fitting of a roof

Like Karhedron, I use OHP acetate sheets, cut to size and glued to the inside of the coach side, before I attach the coach sides to the model (which is usually the very last step). For toilet windows I gently rub the sheet first with fine sandpaper to give some opacity. This generally involves some careful cutting to get just the right shape to avoid details like grab handles poking through from the outside, which is why I haven't attempted Chris Higgs' glass suggestion. I can believe glass looks the best, though.

 

2) UHU Hart glue. I have read this is a good glue if you can find it. Any views on it please?

I've not used it - I prefer Evostick Impact for most bits, as it isn't completely rigid when dry, so there's no danger of thermal expansion cracking it. I'll use superglue to join small bits of the same material.

 

3) Has anyone ordered from Etched Pixels since his re-opening?

Not yet. I expect he's snowed under with people wanting stuff.

[wellseasoned]

Thank you guys.

 

It just goes to show that we tend to find methods and materials that work best for us, but as the saying goes "there's more than one way to skin a Rabbit"

 

I have etched sides that are really thin and flimsy, and others that are around three times the thickness. I feel happier using some fairly rigid clear plasticard as glazing. If others use OHP acetate sheet how well does this firm up the sides please?

 

I have also been using impact adhesive to attach the sides to the glazing. I bought a tube of it in Poundworld. It's noticeably thinner than the market leader making spreading easier. They also had some 5 minute expoxy, virtually the same as Araldite but around a fifth of the cost.

[D869]

Glue-wise I use Formula 560 Canopy Glue for many jobs (not just glazing). In terms of gluing dissimilar materials it does a better all-round job than anything else I've tried.

 

Gluing etched sides onto a body shell where the glazing material is structural (e.g. MTK/Fleetline/BHE style) is a tricky ask and I've had plenty of issues in the past with other glues coming undone. One problem may be the difference in thermal expansion rates of the metal and plastic so I think that having a glue that retains some flexibility is a good thing.

 

I have used epoxy and I have no doubt that it provides a stronger bond but the downsides are the faff of mixing, the wait while it sets and the most serious one - I once had it ooze out of the joint after I'd got everything clamped in place and completely ruin an entire side of a BHE kit.

 

I'd still go for 24 hour epoxy where absolute mechanical strength is the main consideration but for glazing I'd say that you need something that is strong enough but also allows you to clean up if any of the stuff strays where you did not intend. With canopy glue you can roll up and lift off any stray bits with a wooden cocktail stick once it has reached the stage of being (for want of a better phrase) tacky goo. I think the instructions suggest cleaning it up with a water dampened implement but I've had more success with the roll up and lift off method.

 

Canopy glue is also ideal for sticking nameplates on - it gives enough time to adjust the position but sets quickly enough that you can do the other side after a pause for a cup of tea or something stronger to calm the nerves.

 

Regards, Andy

[wellseasoned]

Glue-wise I use Formula 560 Canopy Glue for many jobs (not just glazing). In terms of gluing dissimilar materials it does a better all-round job than anything else I've tried.

 

Gluing etched sides onto a body shell where the glazing material is structural (e.g. MTK/Fleetline/BHE style) is a tricky ask and I've had plenty of issues in the past with other glues coming undone. One problem may be the difference in thermal expansion rates of the metal and plastic so I think that having a glue that retains some flexibility is a good thing.

 

I have used epoxy and I have no doubt that it provides a stronger bond but the downsides are the faff of mixing, the wait while it sets and the most serious one - I once had it ooze out of the joint after I'd got everything clamped in place and completely ruin an entire side of a BHE kit.

 

I'd still go for 24 hour epoxy where absolute mechanical strength is the main consideration but for glazing I'd say that you need something that is strong enough but also allows you to clean up if any of the stuff strays where you did not intend. With canopy glue you can roll up and lift off any stray bits with a wooden cocktail stick once it has reached the stage of being (for want of a better phrase) tacky goo. I think the instructions suggest cleaning it up with a water dampened implement but I've had more success with the roll up and lift off method.

 

Canopy glue is also ideal for sticking nameplates on - it gives enough time to adjust the position but sets quickly enough that you can do the other side after a pause for a cup of tea or something stronger to calm the nerves.

 

Regards, Andy

 

 

Thank you for this advice Andy.

 

Canopy glue is a new one on me but I will get some fairly soon. 

That's the beauty of this Forum/thread, we can all advise eachother on what we have found works, and it may be an improvement on our own current method/s.

 

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall

 

p.s Artic / Russian chill, I've lived down here for 10 years, but never known it as cold as it is at the moment...soft Southerner? lol

Edited February 25, 2018 by wellseasoned

[DavidK71]

I have etched sides that are really thin and flimsy, and others that are around three times the thickness. I feel happier using some fairly rigid clear plasticard as glazing. If others use OHP acetate sheet how well does this firm up the sides please?

Thin acetate doesn't really stiffen up sides much, or even at all. Generally stiffness comes from adding the tumblehome (like corrugated iron is stiffer than just a sheet). I also try to make sure there's support for the sides in the middle below the windows, usually by adding plasticard strip to whatever is below.

[wellseasoned]

Hi guys,

I will be looking to source some buffers for my LMS coaches I'm building.

I'll need quite a few, and wondered if any of you have suggestions based on you past purchases? 

 

Thanks in advance, Steve.

 

[CarriageShed]

Etched Pixels do a pretty good range of buffers. I've bought LMS-style round buffers before and they were absolutely fine.

[DavidK71]

I will be looking to source some buffers for my LMS coaches I'm building.

I'll need quite a few, and wondered if any of you have suggestions based on you past purchases?

I usually use ones from N Brass: http://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/fitcoach.html#buffer

[wellseasoned]

Canopy glue. I purchased some following advice given on here.

 

When I looked at it's composition I noted PVA as an ingrediant. Being a woodworker my thought was heck, this is some expensive PVA, but it must surely have other stuff with it. White glues can of course all appear to be the same

 

However, I have used it and have nothing but praise for it. It has a nice viscocity and is a joy to use, drying clear.

 

I have been looking around the net for some current production technique/modern day decals for my crimson and cream Staniers/Porthole stock. Unless I have missed it there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive set of coach numbersets on the market, the M*****M sort of thing. I'm also getting short on my old Ultima pressfix lining...it is so delicate to use and could turn me into Victor Meldrew...lol

 

I've sent an email to Cambridge custom transfers about said decals, as he will consider doing them if nobody else has thus far.

 

As ever, always grateful for advice guys.

 

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall.

[DavidK71]

I have been looking around the net for some current production technique/modern day decals for my crimson and cream Staniers/Porthole stock. Unless I have missed it there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive set of coach numbersets on the market, the M*****M sort of thing. I'm also getting short on my old Ultima pressfix lining...

The two obvious suppliers are Modelmaster (https://modelmaster.uk/) and Fox Transfers (https://fox-transfers.co.uk/).

 

Modelmasters decals used to be available from the N Gauge Society, and did both lining and some very useful sheets of BR-era numbers for pre-nationalisation stock. I believe that these transfers are now available directly from them, though I haven't had the need to order any myself yet. Fox do both lining and numbers, though their numbers look to be for early BR stock. I've always found that the number I need isn't quite available, so I end up cutting up number decals to get the number I want. It's fiddly but not too hard. I used to use Modelmasters lining but have switched to Fox as it's rather finer, although that makes it harder to apply, too.

Edited March 11, 2018 by DavidK71

[wellseasoned]

Canopy glue. I purchased some following advice given on here.

 

When I looked at it's composition I noted PVA as an ingrediant. Being a woodworker my thought was heck, this is some expensive PVA, but it must surely have other stuff with it. White glues can of course all appear to be the same

 

However, I have used it and have nothing but praise for it. It has a nice viscocity and is a joy to use, drying clear.

 

I have been looking around the net for some current production technique/modern day decals for my crimson and cream Staniers/Porthole stock. Unless I have missed it there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive set of coach numbersets on the market, the M*****M sort of thing. I'm also getting short on my old Ultima pressfix lining...it is so delicate to use and could turn me into Victor Meldrew...lol

 

I've sent an email to Cambridge custom transfers about said decals, as he will consider doing them if nobody else has thus far.

 

As ever, always grateful for advice guys.

 

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Just had a reply from John Isherwood at CTT. 

 

He said his equipment does not allow the printing of such fine lining as required for N/2mm.

[wellseasoned]

The two obvious suppliers are Model Masters (http://www.modelmasters.co.uk/) and Fox Transfers (https://fox-transfers.co.uk/).

 

Model Masters decals used to be available from the N Gauge Society, and did both lining and some very useful sheets of BR-era numbers for pre-nationalisation stock. I believe that these transfers are now available directly from them, though I haven't had the need to order any myself yet. Fox do both lining and numbers, though their numbers look to be for early BR stock. I've always found that the number I need isn't quite available, so I end up cutting up number decals to get the number I want. It's fiddly but not too hard. I used to use Model Masters lining but have switched to Fox as it's rather finer, although that makes it harder to apply, too.

 

 

Thanks David71, 

 

Modelmaster decals I have purchased in the past through the NGS. A decision was made for Modelmaster to sale and distribute their decals to NGS members. It appears to have been fraught with problems and came in for a lot of flack. Then the owner of many years decided he'd had enough and announced he was going to retire. Soon afterwards he withdrew his announcement, and I'm unsure what the state of play is now. Sales of all N gauge decals were suspended, and AFAIK it remains so. I do know they had some useful coach numbering in the range. I looked at the Fox range last night and it appeared to me to be all MK1 numbers.  Therefore it may well be a case of finding somebody to custom make for me.

[D869]

 

The two obvious suppliers are Model Masters (http://www.modelmasters.co.uk/) and Fox Transfers (https://fox-transfers.co.uk/).

 

Model Masters decals used to be available from the N Gauge Society, and did both lining and some very useful sheets of BR-era numbers for pre-nationalisation stock. I believe that these transfers are now available directly from them, though I haven't had the need to order any myself yet. Fox do both lining and numbers, though their numbers look to be for early BR stock. I've always found that the number I need isn't quite available, so I end up cutting up number decals to get the number I want. It's fiddly but not too hard. I used to use Model Masters lining but have switched to Fox as it's rather finer, although that makes it harder to apply, too.

 

 

Thanks David71, 

 

Modelmaster decals I have purchased in the past through the NGS. A decision was made for Modelmaster to sale and distribute their decals to NGS members. It appears to have been fraught with problems and came in for a lot of flack. Then the owner of many years decided he'd had enough and announced he was going to retire. Soon afterwards he withdrew his announcement, and I'm unsure what the state of play is now. Sales of all N gauge decals were suspended, and AFAIK it remains so. I do know they had some useful coach numbering in the range. I looked at the Fox range last night and it appeared to me to be all MK1 numbers.  Therefore it may well be a case of finding somebody to custom make for me.

 

 

I looked on the ModelMaster site fairrly recently and some 'N' scale decals and etched name and number plates had appeared. IIRC they were not there when I looked a month or two back so hopefully things are going in the right direction. They were just loco and wagon decals but fingers crossed that the coach decals will reappear in due course.

 

I was in the NGS for a while and have some ModelMaster coach decals from that time. My feeling was that they tended to stick to numbers for the available commercial vehicles (presumably from the time when the sheet was designed), so there were plenty of suitable numbers for Dapol RTR coaches but if you had a kit built Hawksworth then you were stuck with chopping up numbers to make something suitable.

 

I've also had ALPS printed Decals done by John Peck (of Precision Decals) from my own artwork but if you go via that route you need to work with the available ribbon colours. The yellow is very much towards the lemon end of the spectrum. Registration between colour layers can be variable - you need to print white underneath most other colours and if the layers are slightly out of registration you will get a white fringe on one side. Don't get me wrong - I am very pleased with the results I've had and will use John's services in future but you do need to understand its limitations. I think CCT uses ALPS technology so if Mr Isherwood says that coach lining is too tricky then he is probably not wrong.

 

Regards, Andy

[wellseasoned]

I have come across a source of valuable information on many of the LMS/ B.R. built coaches.  The Comet models website (now Wizard models) has some great stuff on it, dealing individually with each of the diagrams they produce.  

 

It has line drawings and each has a view of the roof showing the position of vents etc.

 

Some of you are doubtless already aware of this website, but for those of you that aren't I hope you also find it useful.

 

                                                                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm currently pondering over coach roofs, having bought just etched sides and made my own chassis.

Playing around with what I have to hand the old Farish (Poole) MK1 roofs fit nicely and could be modified/adapted. Sadly I cannot find a source of these roofs from the normal sources such as B.R. lines/Peters spares.

 

I have several of the Mike Howard roofs but these are made of a very soft plastic that doesn't take too well to cutting and sanding.

 

I have tried bending some 0.7mm aluminium around a former of required diameter but not succesfully.

 

I'm beginning to think about looking for some plastic or thin metal tube that could be used, maybe even some resin casting.  Have any of you guys been down this road?

[Nig H]

I have come across a source of valuable information on many of the LMS/ B.R. built coaches.  The Comet models website (now Wizard models) has some great stuff on it, dealing individually with each of the diagrams they produce.  

 

It has line drawings and each has a view of the roof showing the position of vents etc.

 

Some of you are doubtless already aware of this website, but for those of you that aren't I hope you also find it useful.

 

                                                                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm currently pondering over coach roofs, having bought just etched sides and made my own chassis.

Playing around with what I have to hand the old Farish (Poole) MK1 roofs fit nicely and could be modified/adapted. Sadly I cannot find a source of these roofs from the normal sources such as B.R. lines/Peters spares.

 

I have several of the Mike Howard roofs but these are made of a very soft plastic that doesn't take too well to cutting and sanding.

 

I have tried bending some 0.7mm aluminium around a former of required diameter but not succesfully.

 

I'm beginning to think about looking for some plastic or thin metal tube that could be used, maybe even some resin casting.  Have any of you guys been down this road?

The Two Millimetre Scale Association sell (to members) BR Mk1 and LMS profile roofs. BH Enterprises list a roof moulding (ref A7) which is I think a BR profile. You could ask them to confirm that.

 

Nig H

[DavidK71]

I have come across a source of valuable information on many of the LMS/ B.R. built coaches.  The Comet models website (now Wizard models) has some great stuff on it, dealing individually with each of the diagrams they produce.  

Some of you are doubtless already aware of this website, but for those of you that aren't I hope you also find it useful.

 

Yes, the Comet instructions are invaluable. The owner of Comet Models died a year or so ago and the range changed hands, so I took the precaution of downloading the instruments for every coach in the range that I might conceivably make. 

 

I'm currently pondering over coach roofs, having bought just etched sides and made my own chassis.

 

Roofs are a difficult one. I've got quite a few Masterclass Models resin roofs that will hopefully keep me going for a while. If I run out or need something else, the most practical option looks to be experimenting with 3d printing. Chris Higgs has posted some results of his experiments, which look really good: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126806-going-to-the-agm/&do=findComment&comment=2936986 But designing a roof for printing will be quite a bit of work. Etched Pixels have various roof profiles, but I couldn't comment on how accurate or not they are.

[wellseasoned]

 

 

Yes, the Comet instructions are invaluable. The owner of Comet Models died a year or so ago and the range changed hands, so I took the precaution of downloading the instruments for every coach in the range that I might conceivably make. 

 

 

Roofs are a difficult one. I've got quite a few Masterclass Models resin roofs that will hopefully keep me going for a while. If I run out or need something else, the most practical option looks to be experimenting with 3d printing. Chris Higgs has posted some results of his experiments, which look really good: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126806-going-to-the-agm/&do=findComment&comment=2936986 But designing a roof for printing will be quite a bit of work. Etched Pixels have various roof profiles, but I couldn't comment on how accurate or not they are.

 

[wellseasoned]

Thank you David71 for your link to chris Higgs posts and pics on roofs.

 

I have a couple of kits with plastic vents that would need drilling for and fixing, something that by the sound of it several dread. I have yet to find out!

The 3D printed roofs with vents incorporated sound as though they could be very popular.

 

It appears that slowly more people are becoming adept at 3D printing, and there's a chap on the N gauge forum who is pretty close to producing a County 10xx body and tender.

 

I have been a NGS member for several years, but of late I have become disenchanted with some of the decisions from the top. I have been spitting blood over the Modelmaster debacle, and I am not alone here. The 2mm association seems more in keeping with my modelling direction, so I will quite likely join this in preferance to  renewing the NGS subscription.

[DavidK71]

Since someone was asking what I'm currently working on, it's another of Chris Higgs' Masterclass Models coaches: an E.152 brake composite. Progress is now stalled waiting for some sunshine and warmer weather to tackle painting. Shown here with sides just held on with blutac to make sure everything lines up:

 

 

One new thing that I've attempted is the grab rails on the roof, which have come out rather well. Let's hope they survive painting!

[Atso]

Hi David, great to see another coach being built. I've now got quite a few of the Ultima Gresley conversion sides and I'm now thinking of the best way to put these together without using a donor coach!

 

 

 

 

It appears that slowly more people are becoming adept at 3D printing, and there's a chap on the N gauge forum who is pretty close to producing a County 10xx body and tender.

 

Would you mean this one?

 

 

Still quite a few bits to sort out on this I'm afraid - like getting the chimney and safety valve cover correct! It'll be done once some time becomes available again.