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Building an N gauge coach kit


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Thank you David71 for your link to chris Higgs posts and pics on roofs.

 

I have a couple of kits with plastic vents that would need drilling for and fixing, something that by the sound of it several dread. I have yet to find out!

The 3D printed roofs with vents incorporated sound as though they could be very popular.

 

It appears that slowly more people are becoming adept at 3D printing, and there's a chap on the N gauge forum who is pretty close to producing a County 10xx body and tender.

 

I have been a NGS member for several years, but of late I have become disenchanted with some of the decisions from the top. I have been spitting blood over the Modelmaster debacle, and I am not alone here. The 2mm association seems more in keeping with my modelling direction, so I will quite likely join this in preferance to  renewing the NGS subscription.

 

The 3D-printed coach roofs have indeed proved popular, however they do not come cheap. We are talking around 15.00 each. I have just mastered doing the domed ends on Gresley and Hawksworth stock.

 

As to the resin castings a lot of those I don't have any more but I do have good numbers of LNER Gresleys and BR Mk1s to N scale.

 

As to plastic mouldings as mentioned by Nigel Hunt I can recommend the 2mm SA BR and LMS roof profiles. If as I suspect the B.H. Enterprises A7 is the old MTK offering then I never found that quite convincing.

 

Chris

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Still quite a few bits to sort out on this I'm afraid - like getting the chimney and safety valve cover correct! It'll be done once some time becomes available again. :)

I've been watching your progress on the County on the Other Site - it looks very nice. I can see I'm going to have to branch out into loco kits ...

 

The 3D-printed coach roofs have indeed proved popular.

I can see why, they really are a big step beyond anything we've had before! Out of interest, how much manual work goes into a new roof, once you've got the profile? Could the process be automated so that a program could spit out any GWR roof, given just a few details like the vent locations?

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I can see why, they really are a big step beyond anything we've had before! Out of interest, how much manual work goes into a new roof, once you've got the profile? Could the process be automated so that a program could spit out any GWR roof, given just a few details like the vent locations?

 

They are parameterised and it does what you describe. The roof profile is drawn in 2D using TurboCAD (in my case) then I use OpenSCAD which is more or less 3D CAD meets programming. So everything like roof length, vent posittions, handrail holes, toilet covers etc. are entered as lists. So most work is collecting the information and then checking and rechecking it as all entered correctly. The downside with these roofs is that one item in the wrong place and the whole thing is scrap.

 

Last time I was at Didcot I was found checking some roof vent positions on their TO which is hidden away down in the broad gauge shed. Luckily there were only a couple of other visitors that day, and they must have thought I had lost my reason.

Edited by Chris Higgs
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  • 1 month later...

At the recent Thornbury show I was fortunate to buy 2 unopened packs of Modelmaster LMS/B.R. coach lining (along with several etches) It's a pleasure to use compared to some ancient Ultima lining I was labouring away with.

 

For me the knack is after the soaking period to place the slightly overlength lining near to it's final position. I slide off around 6-8mm of lining to the right hand side of the body,passing the end by a few mm and gently hold it down with a damp finger. With my left hand and some tweezers I can very carefully pull the backing paper away to the left. This leaves the decal in a fairly straight line and it can be teased into position with a 45 degree straight edge brush (around 10mm wide)

 

It's likely that some if not most of you already do this, but it may be of use to somebody.

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Toilet windows.

 

  On another forum coaches were being discussed and the question of how do you make toilet windows appear opaque/frosted came up. I had simply been using some off white paint on said window/s by painting the inside of the glazing.

 

To be honest it didn't look quite right so had me pondering. I then had one of those light bulb moments. Got it, why not use some heavyish tracing paper. I glued a small trial piece onto a scrap of my glazing material with canopy glue. The result is very good and a vast improvement on paint, so this is the way forward for me. Cheap as chips but very effective...I like that.

 

Canopy glue as was advised on here is a good choice. I have been able to dismantle a couple of my very early attempts at coachbuilding. The sides can be stripped and start again, utilising what I have learnt along the way. 

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  • 1 month later...

The Masterclass Models GWR E.152 brake composite of 1936 is now finished:

 

42962773421_6b529c6bf9_o.jpg

29090124698_34f6ede9e1_o.jpg

 

As ever, these are lovely kits. Certainly the nicest 2mm coach kits I've ever come across. The only thing I did for this one that I've not tried before is the roof handrails, which I'm rather pleased with.

 

And now, a cautionary tale ... When it came to numbering I was looking through the available numbers I had. Russell Appendix 1 has a photograph of W6985W, but I noticed that with the numbers I had it would be much easier to make up W6859W, and 6859 was the number of the first coach in this diagram. So I used that. The next day I was considering what to do next, when I had the idea of doing one of the coaches that was rebuilt during WW2 due to bomb damage: these are a mix of a toplight era underframe and a 1940s body. Reading the section in Harris about these coaches, I wasn't entirely thrilled to find that in 1942 6859 was damaged and rebuilt with a different body. Argh! Off came the number decals, and back we went to W6985W. Which leads to the second mistake ... On the corridor side the number should be on the right, not the left. I am not sure how I managed to get that wrong. Fixing it would leave an obvious mark on the varnish now, and I can't face stripping and redoing the entire corridor side, so I shall live with it.

Edited by DavidK71
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  • 3 months later...

Time to revisit a past project ... In 2016 I did a D.121 brake third and as an experiment I left off the crimson banding below the cantrail. I was never very happy with the result, and it looked odd compared to all the other ex-GWR stock I've built. So the time came to take the sides off, strip and repaint them:
 
29988248577_d46352a48f_o.jpg
29988248927_be0931c183_o.jpg

Definitely an improvement! I think that 2017's C.67 third will probably receive the same treatment at some point as the paint is a bit too thick, but there are other things to work on first.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Decals.

 

A while back I posted some comments on the Modelmaster decals, mainly the unforseen disruption that had developed due to decisions made by the NGS committee. I will not go into the rights and wrongs of their decisions. However, the debacle over the decals and a couple of other decisions did not sit well with me. Suffice to say I have not renewed my membership after several years a member. 

 

Within the last few days a question came up on the N gauge forum with the poster asking what had happened to all of the Modelmaster decals. A reply from a NGS member stated that whilst a decision had been made to bring them back from Modelmaster and again in house, a subsequent decision has been made to dispose of them and not re-order. I had always considered the access to value for money Modelmaster decals and society kits as a core benefit of membership.

 

I have spoken to the proprieter of Modelmaster on a few occasions since late Spring. During our recent conversation he told me that all of the Modelmaster decals that were obtainable through the NGS are in fact NGS property. They have requested their return so he's therefore unable to sell any of them. The exception is some loco lining which is on his website. He said he had never been paid for producing them by the NGS, so they belong to him and he's at will to sell to anyone.

 

I asked him if he would go on to expand his own range of N gauge decals, to which he replied doubtful as producing them is not cheap and time consuming. I think he is interested in expanding his range of etched name and numberplates in all scales.

 

I recently phone ordered some coach numbers from Fox that arrived the very next day. I have to make my desired numbers for Hawksworth's up from them but the old eyes have held up surprisingly well!  

 

I thought it worthwhile to let other coachbuilders know the situation with Modelmaster, and the decision by the NGS not to re-order. Some earlier reports say their are copious numbers of decals, although Jim at Modelmaster told me that when he received a huge parcel of decals from the NGS they were "best mix" and some had become damp in storage. I get the distinct impression their is no love lost between Modelmaster and the NGS committee!  It's unfortunate that things have degenerated to the situation that now exists, but there you have it. 

 

What would be useful is if a person/s in the know of what is available from who in the decal World could put together some sort of list. For example, does anyone do a No Smoking window "sausage" ?

 

Anyway guys, I hope the aforementioned is of use to you.

 

Steve

Falmouth

W.Cornwall

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I'm getting a bit low on my Modelmaster lining and had considered leaving off of the cantrail lining on the Hawksworth's I'm working on. I am going to apply it though for the reason you give...they will look odd against those that have it.

 

I have been airbrushing cream and after masking airbrushing the crimson, both Railmatch acrylics. For the last few coaches I have continued to used acrylic cream, but used Hycote Rosso red acrylic (for cars) from a rattle can. I feel it's a slight improvement with less bleed under the tape, although I never get that much bleed.

 

The Ford Rosso red is a tad different to the Railmatch crimson, but not anywhere near the difference between Dapol Collett's and Farish Staniers!

Edited by wellseasoned
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Decals.

 

A while back I posted some comments on the Modelmaster decals, mainly the unforseen disruption that had developed due to decisions made by the NGS committee. I will not go into the rights and wrongs of their decisions. However, the debacle over the decals and a couple of other decisions did not sit well with me. Suffice to say I have not renewed my membership after several years a member. 

 

Within the last few days a question came up on the N gauge forum with the poster asking what had happened to all of the Modelmaster decals. A reply from a NGS member stated that whilst a decision had been made to bring them back from Modelmaster and again in house, a subsequent decision has been made to dispose of them and not re-order. I had always considered the access to value for money Modelmaster decals and society kits as a core benefit of membership.

 

I have spoken to the proprieter of Modelmaster on a few occasions since late Spring. During our recent conversation he told me that all of the Modelmaster decals that were obtainable through the NGS are in fact NGS property. They have requested their return so he's therefore unable to sell any of them. The exception is some loco lining which is on his website. He said he had never been paid for producing them by the NGS, so they belong to him and he's at will to sell to anyone.

 

I asked him if he would go on to expand his own range of N gauge decals, to which he replied doubtful as producing them is not cheap and time consuming. I think he is interested in expanding his range of etched name and numberplates in all scales.

 

I recently phone ordered some coach numbers from Fox that arrived the very next day. I have to make my desired numbers for Hawksworth's up from them but the old eyes have held up surprisingly well!  

 

I thought it worthwhile to let other coachbuilders know the situation with Modelmaster, and the decision by the NGS not to re-order. Some earlier reports say their are copious numbers of decals, although Jim at Modelmaster told me that when he received a huge parcel of decals from the NGS they were "best mix" and some had become damp in storage. I get the distinct impression their is no love lost between Modelmaster and the NGS committee!  It's unfortunate that things have degenerated to the situation that now exists, but there you have it. 

 

What would be useful is if a person/s in the know of what is available from who in the decal World could put together some sort of list. For example, does anyone do a No Smoking window "sausage" ?

 

Anyway guys, I hope the aforementioned is of use to you.

 

Steve

Falmouth

W.Cornwall

 

There seems to be some misunderstanding/misinformation here.

 

ModelMasters operation has not been disrupted by decisions made by the NGS committee. Some time back the huge stocks of decals that NGS owned were returned to Modelmaster who has offered and agreed to sell them on behalf of the NGS. It is not true to say they have not been paid for and the NGS also paid a hefty contribution to Modelmaster towards a special sales system. However, after a time no sales results/data were provided to the NGS and with Modelmaster announcing their retirement and effecting a temporary hiatus in their overall sales operation it was decided to take back the stocks (that the NGS owned). Since then, despite several arrangements being made, it has not been possible to collect them.

 

Nonetheless, when they are back in NGS hands they will be sorted and where of merchandisable quality (transfers can deteriorate over time) will be placed on sale to members. They will not be thrown away as some have mentioned on other forums (disposal in this sense meaning to sell them not destroy them) and there are sufficient stocks of some to last a long time.

 

It should also be noted that the priority for the NGS is to ensure that all their kits have suitable decals available for them (either included with the kit or for sale separately) and to that end there is someone working to produce missing decals, arrange their production and make them available through the NGS shop. Information about this has been provided in the NGS Newsletter sent to all members.

 

HTH and clarifies things.

 

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There seems to be some misunderstanding/misinformation here.

 

ModelMasters operation has not been disrupted by decisions made by the NGS committee. Some time back the huge stocks of decals that NGS owned were returned to Modelmaster who has offered and agreed to sell them on behalf of the NGS. It is not true to say they have not been paid for and the NGS also paid a hefty contribution to Modelmaster towards a special sales system. However, after a time no sales results/data were provided to the NGS and with Modelmaster announcing their retirement and effecting a temporary hiatus in their overall sales operation it was decided to take back the stocks (that the NGS owned). Since then, despite several arrangements being made, it has not been possible to collect them.

 

Nonetheless, when they are back in NGS hands they will be sorted and where of merchandisable quality (transfers can deteriorate over time) will be placed on sale to members. They will not be thrown away as some have mentioned on other forums (disposal in this sense meaning to sell them not destroy them) and there are sufficient stocks of some to last a long time.

 

It should also be noted that the priority for the NGS is to ensure that all their kits have suitable decals available for them (either included with the kit or for sale separately) and to that end there is someone working to produce missing decals, arrange their production and make them available through the NGS shop. Information about this has been provided in the NGS Newsletter sent to all members.

 

HTH and clarifies things.

 

 

Thank you for your response and side of things Grahame.  As a member of the NGS I was only too aware of the disruption and knock on effect that occurred with the sudden resignation of the long time shop managers. As always there are two sides to a story/situation. I feel that both sides have chosen to tell us what suits re' the decals, and somewhere in between will be the reality. As an example Jim at Modelmaster said a couple of weeks back the decals are ready to go back to the NGS but that they have not been collected.  An unfortunte war of words possibly?

 

Anyway, for the sake of the membership I hope a happy conclusion is not too far away.  

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As an example Jim at Modelmaster said a couple of weeks back the decals are ready to go back to the NGS but that they have not been collected.  An unfortunte war of words possibly?

 

 

There is no war of words. I simply said it has not been possible to collect them (so far) dispite arrangements. This doesn't imply any blame or mean there is any animosity or insurmountable issues.

 

G

Edited by grahame
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  • 5 months later...

All quiet on here for a few months now.

 

Anyone doing anything interesting?

Any new coach products around, kits, decals, etched sides or parts?

Anyone purchased from Etched Pixels of late? 

 

Me, I've had a break from coach building for a few months, but making a re-start on some Hawksworths.

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2 hours ago, wellseasoned said:

Anyone doing anything interesting?

 

Haven't done a single piece of modelling this year, most due to having to rebuild four websites to be mobile friendly. Just about to start with an hour's work in the evenings though, and it's about time. Coincidentally one of the first jobs will be carriage building - from a 3D print that needs a chassis.

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  • 3 months later...

Nothing new to report as yet, but another past project has been re-visited: the Masterclass Models GWR C67 third I did back in 2017. I was never very happy with the sides, as the paint was a bit too thick. I really should have stripped the sides and had another go at the time, but what with one thing and another it didn't get done, at least until recently. The result:

 

48300559667_2506061564_o.jpg

48300451996_bf004ae83d_o.jpg

 

The coach has also been renumbered to W5826W in honour of a photograph of that coach at Oxford (a station I know well) in Hugh Longworth's recent mammoth book on pre-nationalization coaching stock.

Edited by DavidK71
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  • 2 weeks later...

I have in the last couple of weeks placed a largish order with Etched Pixels.  I did not hear it from proprieter Alan, but I am led to believe that during the move into his current premises some masters (for want of another description) for certain etches were damaged by removal staff.  Very unfortunate if this is the case.

Has anyone else heard similar?

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Not accurate thankfully they are never on site anyway but all live with PPD.

 

Except for very old stuff (which I suspect never existed in digital form) I've also got digital copies of the artwork although I did have fun extracting them from very old Macintosh apps. There is old stuff that only exists/existed as stock (Bill Bedford parts, Commonwealth bogies, printed coach sides) and stuff it's not really practical to re-run for other reasons (from being old artwork mostly containing stuff I don't need to hand plastic moulding tools which are hard to get run nowdays).

 

Various things escaped in the move - I'm still looking for some PC models 2mm shrunk clerestory etches and the like. No doubt one decade they will emerge from somewhere.

 

Most stuff that is out of stock is out of stock because I've simply not had much time the past three years. I'm variously restoring an 1860s mansion where the surveyor said 'the only thing that works are the appliances' 8), having a somewhat busy work life (I work for a large chip manufacturer and ended up involved meltdown/spectre and other exciting things) and my new fiancee means I've also gone from childless and time rich to stepdad and no time at all 8)

 

The 3D print stuff is partly out of stock because the current Shapeways prices with the state of the pound are ludicrous. That said given Farish prices nowdays I might have to bite the bullet, order some stuff and put the prices up accordingly 8(

 

Alan

 

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Alan, 
So pleased it wasn't accurate information. Word gets around pretty damned quick these days on forums etc. This is why I made the point I had not heard it from yourself, and great you have responed and put the record straight.

You are right about the price of Farish stuff, which in today's increasingly divided levels of disposable income will see many either unable or unwilling to pay their prices. Even with their "allowed" 15% discounts much is still very expensive. I have a real hunch that more people will be tempted to try their hand building some coaches. In the 18 months I've been building I have learnt SO much about coaches, and find it an enjoyable and consuming subject.
An 1860s Mansion. In my early days as a carpenter during the start of the 70s I worked for a builder in central Bristol.  We maintained a number of adjacent Georgian properties. Much work was reproduction on the listed buildings, so I can well understand your task in hand!

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Further to the above, personally I would so much rather deal with a supplier like Alan than I would Bachmann/Farish etc. I have nothing against them what so ever (other that increasingly balking at the prices) and will continue to pick up some bits and pieces at bargain prices when I can. The clincher for me is that Alan makes stuff I actually want and I get to build it.

 

best wishes,

 

Alastair M

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  • 2 months later...

I am trying to think of what could be used to create the internal coach corridors.

I have examples of the acetate ones supplied by etched pixels, and a metal one of unknown origin that was included in a job-lot of coach parts.
Would it be possible for corridors to be produced by laser cutting, from a stouter material than thin acetate?
Perhaps a continuous strip could be produced that would suffice for 4 or 5 coaches, and could be cut to the required length?
Could they be 3D printed maybe?


 

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1 hour ago, wellseasoned said:

I am trying to think of what could be used to create the internal coach corridors.

...
Would it be possible for corridors to be produced by laser cutting, from a stouter material than thin acetate?

 

Yes, or some other kind of cutting, and it would be a better way than 3d printing. 

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