Building an N gauge coach kit

[DavidK71]

On 12/10/2020 at 14:14, wellseasoned said:

To this there was a reply saying "Mounsa" had said on RMweb if somebody could show it was profitable then he would do it.  It seems the availability circle of carriage etches is shrinking?

 

I can't imagine anyone has ever made money producing 2mm/N coach etches: it's rather more for the fun of it! Bill did used to produce some of his sides in 2mm if you asked nicely - he'd add them to etching sheets as and when there was space, but it was never more than a side-line for him, I think.

[wellseasoned]

I don't know how much 2mm/N Worsley Works sales, but he is certainly up for suggestions of diagrams to produce. I have asked if he would do some L.M.S. TPOs and he is looking into it. His LMS carriage etches allow, e.g, a Royal Scot train to be formed, as it's a wide range.

I have a few Bill Bedford etches that I've had via ebay, but they seem thin on the ground. Using the clouds and silver linings thing, I reckon lockdown may have induced some people to try, or rekindle some hands-on modelling. With the £50 Farish carriage not that far away, hopefully a few more may be spurred on to try their hand at carriage building.

Etched Pixels is mothballed until next Spring, Ray of B.H. enterprise is unwell, so this leaves W/works as seemingly the only source of etches at the current time. Unless of course anyone know differently?

[R Marshall]

Mousa Models ( there's no "n") is, or was owned by Bill Bedford.

 

I guess it's named after the Isle of Mousa in Shetland and its famous Broch.

 

Some years ago, Bill reduced some 4mm etches of Conflat L wagons and their powder containers for me. I'm ashamed to say I've made no progress with them, but they're nice etches and will be finished at some point.

 

The wagons will run with a train of Farish Covhops - both types were used regularly in the Thrislington to Steetley limestone trains. Often behind a Q6 or WD.

 

Sorry to depart from topic!

 

Regards,

 

Roy

[Doncaster Green]

On 14/10/2020 at 10:49, wellseasoned said:

Etched Pixels is mothballed until next Spring, Ray of B.H. enterprise is unwell, so this leaves W/works as seemingly the only source of etches at the current time. Unless of course anyone know differently?

I wish I did know differently!   I have not posted in this thread before, but I have followed it with great interest as, like all of you, I am an avid builder of etched coaches in 2mmfs and N.   I just wish some of them would make it as far as the paint shop!  I do have my own thread in the 2mm forum where I detail, on a sporadic basis, the progress I make.   But, to the matter in hand.

I get the impression that Allen at Worsley is very happy to do pretty much anything he has artwork for at the scale you wish, although you might have to wait until he can set it up.   I've recently had a set of etches for the LNER Silver Jubilee in N from him and he is looking at the possibility of a Coronation set.

Most of the stock I have built thus far has come from the Masterclass range,  Gresley/Thompson NG stock in 2mm and Gresley gangwayed stock in N to match Dapol, along with some Worsley Gresley/Thompson on Masterclass underframes.

I believe that, sometimes, if you can conjure up enough demand to do a full sheet, some suppliers will reduce their artwork from 4mm to 2mm or N, but that does rely on you knowing enough other people who want the same thing!

If this current situation is doing anything it is making some of us look to doing things for ourselves.   With Etched Pixels out of commission I have lost my source of vacuum reservoir tanks, LNER coach dynamos and LNER gangway rubbing plates.   I have managed to scratchbuild the reservoir tanks out of plastic rod on a repeatable basis and am experimenting with the dynamos in similar material.   It's slow but it all adds to the the eventual sense of achievement!   The rubbing plates are a different matter.  I could make them out of plastic card but they would be a bit fragile.   I would prefer them in metal.   Plus, there are all sorts of little metal bits I need that are ideal for etching but nobody else will want.   So, I am going to have a go at etch artwork!   Which leads me to a question for DavidK71.   I notice he has recently had some etching done and I'd be interested to know what software he used.   I have TurboCad but, being a retired bean counter rather than engineer, I am struggling with it.  I also have Affinity Designer, which will, apparently, also produce the right sort of file, which I am finding much more to my liking.   Is it necessary to use full CAD software or can you get away with a vector drawing package?

 

Regards to all

 

John

[DavidK71]

10 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

Is it necessary to use full CAD software or can you get away with a vector drawing package?

 

Good to hear you're experimenting with etching! CAD software is really about 3D modelling, so that's more appropriate for designing things like 3D-printed models. For etching artwork you need a 2D vector drawing package.

 

I use the free Inkscape (https://inkscape.org/). I've not used Affinity Designer but it looks like it is the right sort of tool as well.

 

By the way, the 2mm Association do 3D-printed dynamos (http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/instruction_sheets/pdf4-454.pdf), if you're a member, of fancy joining them. Worth the money for the bogie etches alone!

[Doncaster Green]

2 hours ago, DavidK71 said:

By the way, the 2mm Association do 3D-printed dynamos

I noticed those the other day and will be ordering a couple to check them out.   I think they are a little bit too chunky to represent the skinny, fragile looking things the LNER fitted to non-gangwayed stock in particular, but they may be OK for the heavy duty type fitted to catering stock.   The other bit the lack of EP is going to present problems with is the clipped top buffer for LNER gangway stock.   I have some of their 3D printed ones, but not enough to see me through and I can't find another source.

 

I have been a member of the 2mm Associations for a number of years and totally agree with you about the bogies.   All my kit built stock has them and I will be fitting them to my Dapol Gresleys eventually.  I have not yet gone as far as fitting the brake etches the Assoc. do; one day when I'm feeling masochistic perhaps!

 

As evidence of my bona fides as a coach builder, here is one that didn't manage to hide from the paint shop, a Diag 50 Semi Corridor Lavatory Composite from a Masterclass kit.

 

Needs a bit of gentle weathering, but otherwise I'm reasonably happy considering it's brush painted - my 'workshop' is currently hors de combat awaiting a plasterer!

 

John

 

[65179]

If desperate Etched Pixels Gresley 3D printed buffers are available direct from Shapeways e.g.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/K856QU87H/n-scale-gresley-buffer-clipped-pack-of-100

 

In packs of 40 or 100. Given their relative fragility I plumped for a 100 pack back when Shapeways shipping costs weren't exorbitant.

 

Simon

[wellseasoned]

Doncaster Green (John)  Some interesting points your make.
I got into building carriages when the NGS were selling off all of their shop stock. They had some LMS/B.R. Ultima porthole etched ides going for a song, so I thought why not give it a go. I used some really thin ply for the chassis bed, and some Plastruct  "I" beam channel to replicate the real thing. A case of cobbling together bits and buying cast components from Etched Pixels. 
A good learning curve, but some of my early builds will eventually get a re-build using skills and knowledge built up along the way.
My most recent builds have been from Worsley Works etches. I was very wary of soldering but the fear has somewhat gone.  
Lack of availability will push some of use to look at ways of making our own bits. Water tanks was something I made from plastic rod...easy really.  I think 3D printed parts will come to the fore as more people master it. Job losses may tempt some to try their hand at producing model parts. Possibly a new sort of cottage industry occurring, although Chris Leigh thought differently some while back writing in a copy of Model Rail. 

[Doncaster Green]

27 minutes ago, 65179 said:

If desperate Etched Pixels Gresley 3D printed buffers are available direct from Shapeways e.g.

 

Thanks for that.   I've just ordered 100.   Even with the shipping cost it works out at approx 29p a buffer as opposed to 37.5p (£1.50 per pack of four) from EP.

 

John

 

[wellseasoned]

I haven't bought anything yet from the Shapeways site.  Can someone explain how it works please?

[Doncaster Green]

1 hour ago, wellseasoned said:

 I was very wary of soldering but the fear has somewhat gone.  
Lack of availability will push some of use to look at ways of making our own bits. Water tanks was something I made from plastic rod...easy really.  I think 3D printed parts will come to the fore as more people master it. Job losses may tempt some to try their hand at producing model parts. Possibly a new sort of cottage industry occurring, although Chris Leigh thought differently some while back writing in a copy of Model Rail. 

Soldering has never really been an issue for me.   I'm nowhere near as neat as many I could mention but I can manage to keep the messy bits out of sight!  And it's always possible to clean things up!  My fear is painting!  With a brush I am fairly happy that, with care, I can paint teak panelled stock, but brush painting smooth sided stock has not been successful.   At the moment facilities for spraying are non-existent unless it's a calm, dry day and I can use a rattle can outside.   The garage (bulk household storage facility?) hasn't enough free space and my 'workshop' (back bedroom/study/reserve storage facility) has been cleared for some months for some plastering work that went on hold due to lockdown.  I have 3 airbrushes, a small compressor and an Expo spray booth but neither the space, or the courage(!), to use them in anger.

 

I do wonder if, certainly in N, 4mm OO and, to some extent now, O, there will be less demand for cottage industry type stuff given the vast improvements the RTR manufacturers have made over the last few years.  For 2mm, EM, P4 and ScaleSeven there will still be demand, but will it be enough to support a commercially viable market?  I suspect a lot of us niche scale enthusiasts will be using a deal of self help in the future!

 

John

 

[richbrummitt]

40 minutes ago, wellseasoned said:

I haven't bought anything yet from the Shapeways site.  Can someone explain how it works please?

It works just as many internet based shopping sites do: you browse for what you want and then checkout. There is good information about the various options when buying, sometimes hidden behind buttons links or ? hints. 
 

The difference with many other sites is you are buying community created content with possibly varying quality though I think it is reasonably clear from the site if a design is proven to print and whether the images are photos or the real thing of computer generated images of the file. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by richbrummitt
punctuation

[DavidK71]

3 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

I suspect a lot of us niche scale enthusiasts will be using a deal of self help in the future!

 

Indeed, but I do think that that self-help is so much easier than it once was. With 3d-printing and etching possible from 2d vector artwork much can be done.

[Doncaster Green]

25 minutes ago, DavidK71 said:

 

Indeed, but I do think that that self-help is so much easier than it once was. With 3d-printing and etching possible from 2d vector artwork much can be done.

Agreed.   When you consider that for, possibly, less than £1000 you can equip yourself with the sort of tools that 10-15 years ago would have really only been available, or viable, to a business, along with all the advice and guidance to use them that is freely available on the interweb rather than in dusty specialist publications or expensive training courses.   I remember my first colour inkjet printer cost well over £300.   You can get a 3D printer for that now!   The problem, as ever, is the time investment needed to learn to use them! 

 

John

[nabber]

I haven't posted on this thread before, but I've recently completed a set of Masterclass Models LMS period 1 non-corridor coaches.

Nice to build, and unlined crimson is a simple livery - but still looks good with these panelled coaches I think.

 

First a D1685 BTL:

 

D1700 T:

 

D1703 BT:

 

And D1686 CL:

 

Regards,

Neil

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by nabber
Captions in wrong order.

[PaulCheffus]

1 hour ago, nabber said:

I haven't posted on this thread before, but I've recently completed a set of Masterclass Models LMS period 1 non-corridor coaches.

Nice to build, and unlined crimson is a simple livery - but still looks good with these panelled coaches I think.

 

First a D1685 BTL:

 

D1700 T:

 

D1703 BT:

 

And D1686 CL:

 

Regards,

Neil

 

Hi

 

Very nice.

 

I assume the couplings are the Dapol NEM conversion type.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[nabber]

14 minutes ago, PaulCheffus said:

Very nice.

 

I assume the couplings are the Dapol NEM conversion type.

Thanks Paul.

Yes, Dapol NEM conversion pockets glued onto 2mmSA bogies. Then some with easi-shunts, and some with the simpler fixed couplings where they will stay together.

 

Regards,

Neil

 

[DavidK71]

8 hours ago, nabber said:

I haven't posted on this thread before, but I've recently completed a set of Masterclass Models LMS period 1 non-corridor coaches.

 

Those are lovely, well done! Always good to see some Masterclass Models kits built up - there have been a few posts of Great Western coaches, but fewer LMS, and I don't think I've ever seen any Southern ones that Chris did. (Not that I can talk, with a production rate of rather less than one a year...)

[nabber]

Thanks David. I've been following your thread for a long time, picking up tips. I bought two Masterclass kits years ago, and worked on them slowly, then bought a lot more a couple of years ago when Chris made them available briefly. I also don't remember seeing any Southern or LNER builds here - not sure why?

I built these 4 as a batch with some others, and it was much easier than building one at a time. Though 14 etched bogies got a bit tedious.

Regards,

Neil

 

[DavidK71]

It felt like time to post the current work-in-progress, although progress at the moment is rather slow! Apologies for the less than stellar photography, but I was in a rush. Anyway, what we currently have is this:

 

 

This started out as one of Chris Higgs' Masterclass GWR coaches, a C32 toplight third. The underframe was built up pretty much as standard, and is running on Fishbelly bogies from the 2mm Association with N gauge wheelsets. However the body has etches of my own design to represent W7573, which started life in 1912 as an E88 toplight composite. It was badly damaged during the Second World War so Swindon re-used the underframe with a new body to a custom design that approximately matches Swindon's immediate pre-war coaches.

 

There are photographs of both sides of the rebuilt W7573 in Russel's Great Western Coaches Appendix, Volume 1, so I scanned the relevant pages and used a plug-in for Paint.NET to approximately correct for the effect of perspective. I then made some guesses as to the sizes of compartments and windows and drew up the sides in Inkscape, then got PPD to etch the sides and foot-steps in 0.2mm nickel silver. Having not done this before I was very pleased when the sides matched the rest of the coach! (They're just held on with blutac in the photograph for alignment purposes.)

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by DavidK71

[Sithlord75]

On 22/02/2021 at 05:40, DavidK71 said:

It felt like time to post the current work-in-progress, although progress at the moment is rather slow! Apologies for the less than stellar photography, but I was in a rush. Anyway, what we currently have is this:

 

 

This started out as one of Chris Higgs' Masterclass GWR coaches, a C32 toplight third. The underframe was built up pretty much as standard, and is running on Fishbelly bogies from the 2mm Association with N gauge wheelsets. However the body has etches of my own design to represent W7573, which started life in 1912 as an E88 toplight composite. It was badly damaged during the Second World War so Swindon re-used the underframe with a new body to a custom design that approximately matches Swindon's immediate pre-war coaches.

 

There are photographs of both sides of the rebuilt W7573 in Russel's Great Western Coaches Appendix, Volume 1, so I scanned the relevant pages and used a plug-in for Paint.NET to approximately correct for the effect of perspective. I then made some guesses as to the sizes of compartments and windows and drew up the sides in Inkscape, then got PPD to etch the sides and foot-steps in 0.2mm nickel silver. Having not done this before I was very pleased when the sides matched the rest of the coach! (They're just held on with blutac in the photograph for alignment purposes.)

 

That's very well done.  Gives me hope that one day (when I've time) I'll be able to draw up etches.

[wellseasoned]

DavidK71, 
Thank you for posting about the etching done for you by PPD.
I have looked at their website and it's very enlightening as to what is involved.  I take it that once you have paid for the initial work, then subsequent etches could potentially be done as orders to re-coup some of the initial costs?
Not implying for one moment this is your intention, but it may be something that those with the skills to produce a file for PPD might consider.

I imagine there are many out there who like myself do not have the p.c. knowledge to produce carriage sides.    

[DavidK71]

On 28/02/2021 at 10:07, wellseasoned said:

I have looked at their website and it's very enlightening as to what is involved.  I take it that once you have paid for the initial work, then subsequent etches could potentially be done as orders to re-coup some of the initial costs?

 

I imagine there are many out there who like myself do not have the p.c. knowledge to produce carriage sides.

 

You're right, once an etch has been processed, it's cheaper to run off further copies of it. Given the small size of N gauge etches, though, I suspect that it's not that much cheaper.

 

Actually producing the artwork doesn't require much computer knowledge, just a tool like Inkscape and a lot of persistence. The effort is much more in deciding what the etch should look like, rather than making the computer represent what you intend.

[Sithlord75]

Noticed today that Worsley Works has produced the Coronation set to go with the Silver Jubilee Set.  So ordering both - they may arrive in time for my birthday at the end of April but even if they don't, Management has decreed that they'll be my birthday present.  Locos for both ready to go - Silver Fox as produced by Dapol and 4491 as detailed up from Golden Eagle by me. 

 

I'll be sure to post progress shots as I work through the trains.

[Doncaster Green]

I hesitate to post this for a number of reasons.  Firstly, it's not strictly N gauge, it's 2mmfs.  Secondly, I'm not totally happy with the paint job - it's brushed rather than sprayed.  And, thirdly, it's not complete, the door handles and interior are yet to be fitted.  However, it is about time there was some BR(E) among all this Western and Midland and in an earlier post someone said they like to see Masterclass offerings. So, here it is:

 

 

 

A Gresley Dia 107/108 (BT(4)/Composite Lavatory) twin from Chris Higgs' Masterclass etches. Transfers are a mix of Fox and CCT.

 

John