Building an N gauge coach kit

[BernardTPM]

You might do better to apply the red over the cream (over the white primer); simpler to mask and less chance of the red looking pinkish.

[DavidK71]

I have used Vauxhall Carmine Red for BR Crimson and was very pleased with the results. It is worth noting though that I applied it over a coat of red primer which gave a slightly deeper and more vivid colour than going over white. This was easy enough for me as I was painting plain crimson coaches. Since you are doing cream as well the white primer is probably a necessity.

Yes, I was struck that your carmine looked quite a bit deeper, though it is all hugely dependent on lighting levels and so on.

 

You might do better to apply the red over the cream (over the white primer); simpler to mask and less chance of the red looking pinkish.

That is in fact what I've done: I couldn't figure out any other sensible way to try to do it. I did want to try the red over a red primer, but that makes masking a problem.

[DavidK71]

A little bit more progress over the weekend, resulting in the interior being finished:

 

 

The seats are folded pieces of coloured paper and seem to work quite well, though possibly I should have used a darker colour on the paper. The partitions have had a piece of plastic rod glued to the base and that, along with the seats, make them much easier to get into place than just having them balance on their edge. Lots of testing and trimming with the roof was needed to get everything fitting nicely, but the result is pleasing. On the embarrassing mistake front, note that two of the partitions are a little too short - I accidentally trimmed the bottom edge rather than the side, as I had intended. D'oh ... Also, for future reference it's well worth keeping the etched sides nearby to check that the partitions are in the right place relative to the windows in the sides - I nearly had a nasty mistake there.

 

Next up: the roof.

[DavidK71]

More progress: the coach now has a roof:

 

 

As it came in the kit, the roof had a small bit of damage on one side, where it attached to the sprue. One of the first things I did on the kit was to clean this up by filling the affected part with Humbrol filler and then carefully sanding it back down. At the time this seemed like a pain but I'm glad that I did: while the area of damage on the lip of the roof can be found by looking very carefully, it's much better than it was.

 

One eBay purchase that I'm really pleased with is the hand-held Archimedes drill I used to drill the holes for the roof vents. My initial thought on reading the instructions was "How am I going to drill holes that small?" but a fortunate search on eBay solved the problem: with the drill I can hold the roof steady with one hand while using the drill with the other. Possibly everyone else already knows about these but I was impressed 🙄

 

The roof was sprayed with white primer underneath (to give a passable version of the gloss white ceiling of the prototype), grey primer on top, and then Halfords light grey bumper paint over that. The colour is actually a bit lighter than it appears in the photograph, due to less than ideal photographing conditions today.

 

One source of problems with the roof has been the etched header tank: the instruction diagram (and Kris' photos from earlier in this thread) show the header tank over the non-corridor side of the coach, as you would expect, but this leaves the filler cap in line with the roof vents, rather than the coach centreline, as it should be. Either the etch isn't quite right or I've mis-understood something - to me the filler cap should be more off-centre relative to the tank than it is in the etch. I've dealt with this by moving the header tank slightly towards the centreline, which shouldn't be too obvious.

 

Discussion of the header tank leads to a question for you all: the instructions describe forming the tank filler pipes from the supplied wire, but has anyone done this and been happy with the result? Despite several attempts I've not produced anything that I'm happy with. The real filler pipes follow the roof and side profiles very closely and are quite unobtrusive, but my attempts with wire sit too proud of the body, and also aren't particularly symmetrical. I'm debating whether it would be better to leave them off or not.

 

Work has now started on the last major thing: the sides. I've added a very slight tumblehome to the sides by the slightly scary process described in the instructions. It's possible I've been too chicken in doing this, but a recent inspection of the real coaches at Didcot reminded me that the tumblehome is very minor.

Edited September 5, 2022 by DavidK71

[Kris]

I would suggest that the etch is not quite right.

[Etched Pixels]

One source of problems with the roof has been the etched header tank: the instruction diagram (and Kris' photos from earlier in this thread) show the header tank over the non-corridor side of the coach, as you would expect, but this leaves the filler cap in line with the roof vents, rather than the coach centreline, as it should be. Either the etch isn't quite right or I've mis-understood something - to me the filler cap should be more off-centre relative to the tank than it is in the etch. I've dealt with this by moving the header tank slightly towards the centreline, which shouldn't be too obvious.

 

Time to dig out the GWR coach books and have a look. I'll have an investigate.

 

Discussion of the header tank leads to a question for you all: the instructions describe forming the tank filler pipes from the supplied wire, but has anyone done this and been happy with the result? Despite several attempts I've not produced anything that I'm happy with. The real filler pipes follow the roof and side profiles very closely and are quite unobtrusive, but my attempts with wire sit too proud of the body, and also aren't particularly symmetrical. I'm debating whether it would be better to leave them off or not.

 

It takes a bit of practice to produce neat ones - as with steam loco handrails. A cheat is to use microstrip/rod, that produces an effect which isn't quite as good but is comparable to the look of the moulded on filler pipework on many RTR coaches. It also makes it much easier to get the roof back off. I must confess I often do it this way both for coach roof detail and diesel loco handrails !

 

Curving metal is also a doing/practicing kind of thing - it actually makes the job easier because the curve stops the side flapping about and gives it rigidity. After a few it becomes easier.

[DavidK71]

Time to dig out the GWR coach books and have a look. I'll have an investigate.

Thanks for this, and for the advice on the filler pipes. I will experiment further with the wire, and look into microstrip too.

[D869]

Hi David,

 

Thanks for the thread - I'm getting started on a full brake at the moment so it's very interesting to see your work - you're rather closer to the finish line than I am. Nice job.

 

Regards, Andy

[Etched Pixels]

Don't see an obvious problem having measured a bit - you did notice they are not quite symmetrical ?

[DavidK71]

On 13/07/2011 at 19:02, Etched Pixels said:

Don't see an obvious problem having measured a bit - you did notice they are not quite symmetrical ?

I did notice that 🙄, but as far as I can see, the tank cover isn't asymmetrical enough. Consider these two images:

 

http://www.ultima-mo...mages/1212a.jpg

http://www.rmweb.co....1585_169281.jpg

 

The first image is the drawing of the tank cover from the Ultima catalog, and it shows the position of the filler cap as being about 3/7 of the way along, which matches the actual etch. The second image is one of Kris' photographs from earlier in this thread. Note that on both visible tank covers, the filler cap is more like 1/4 of the way along. Of course it's hard to be sure from a photograph taken at an angle, but it does seem odd.

 

You should also be able to see the effect by using the cut-out roof guide from the Ultima instructions: stick one on a Hawksworth roof, use it to mark out the position of a tank cover, then stick a tank cover on. If the etch is right, the filler cap ought to then be on the coach centre-line, but it isn't for me ...

Edited September 5, 2022 by DavidK71

[DavidK71]

Time for another progress report ... After much cursing, bending of wire and test fitting, I now have filler pipes that I'm reasonably satisfied with. They aren't perfect, but are at least passable, and after several hours I reached the point of accepting I'd done my best. They still look somewhat over-scale to me, but I don't see any way round that. I definitely made a mistake by following the instructions, which deal with the filler pipes only after the roof has been painted and glued in place. In the end I have attached the pipes to the roof only, so that they just touch the coach ends, making it possible to remove the roof in the future. Once they were on, I re-sprayed the roof and very lightly glued it to the body.

 

Lots of progress has been made with the coach sides. I've acquired a can of Alfa Romeo AR530 red car paint (the same colour as used by Coachman, no less). This had to come from a supplier of custom paint as it is not that common - last used on 1980s Alfas, apparently. Given the propensity of 1980s Alfas to rust at the slightest provocation, there can't be many such cars still around. (Though of the ones that remain, I suppose that their owners must spend most of their time patching up the rust, so at least there will always be a market for this paint!) To demonstrate, I've further sprayed the test piece of plastic kit from before:

 

 

To recap, the cream is Vauxhall Gazelle Beige from a Hycote spray can, the light red sprayed horizontally in the bottom half is Vauxhall Crimson from the same source, and the wingtip is Railmatch BR Crimon, brush painted. The two new vertical strips of colour in the centre are, on the left, AR530, and on the right, Halfords Ford Cardinal red, which was mentioned in another RMWeb thread on the perennial question of BR crimson. As I think the picture shows, the Halfords red is too dark, while the AR530 is just a bit lighter than the Railmatch colour - in other words, just right 🙄. Being from a custom paint can, though, it's much less easy to spray than Halfords or Hycote paint - the droplets come out larger, and the spray doesn't seem to travel as far. The photograph shows that there's quite an 'orange peel' effect on the AR530 red, resulting from me spraying from too far away.

 

I decided to use Vauxhall Gazelle Beige and AR530 red for the coach sides. Several thin coats of Hycote white primer where applied to the sides to start with, followed by a coat of the beige. Once dry this was masked off, then the red applied. Given that spraying AR530 was proving difficult, I first sprayed Vauxhall Crimson and then a single coat of AR530 over the top of that, which seems to have worked out quite well. From doing all this I have learnt the value of test spraying before painting an actual model - for each colour I had to experiment to find the optimal distance to spray from, and how many passes of the can to use for a coat to get good coverage without using too much paint.

 

After discussion on D869's blog, I've also attempted to strengthen how the coach sides attach to the ends in two ways. The first has been to glue two vertical pieces of square 1mm plasticard rod to the brake end of the coach, giving a greater area to glue the sides to the end. This wasn't possible at the non-brake end, due to where the doors are on the coach sides. I've also glued some sections of 0.25mm plasticard strips to the folded up sections of the floor to provide something to glue the side to along its length. Testing indicates that the sides will fit nicely to all this, and should provide a sturdy coach.

 

At this point, I am in a position to test fit the coach sides to the body. Here is the result, with blutac holding the sides in place:

 

 

I have to say that I'm very pleased with the result so far. The last picture does show that I did not quite get the masking tape completely horizontal all the way along, though. In my defence, trying to align beige masking tape on a side you've just painted beige is annoyingly awkward. But still, I shall have to be more careful next time.

 

The next stage is to consider transfers and lining. I'm not completely sure that I want to line the coach - I am worried that it will look over-scale. Anyway, I will acquire lining from the N Gauge Society shop (this is the only source I know of, unless anyone has another suggestion) when it re-opens in August. Once that is done all that will remain is varnishing the sides, glazing, and final assembly. Then I'll have to decide what to build next...

Edited September 5, 2022 by DavidK71

[Karhedron]

Anyway, I will acquire lining from the N Gauge Society shop (this is the only source I know of, unless anyone has another suggestion) when it re-opens in August. Once that is done all that will remain is varnishing the sides, glazing, and final assembly. Then I’ll have to decide what to build next...

That looks really good. The time you have spent preparing and experimenting has clearly paid off as the finish looks excellent.

 

For lining, I agree that ModelMaster lining from the NGS shop is probably your best bet. I am not aware of any alternatives.

[DavidK71]

On 19/07/2011 at 09:00, Karhedron said:

That looks really good. The time you have spent preparing and experimenting has clearly paid off as the finish looks excellent.

Thank you 😀. It has been a very enjoyable experience, and I'm already planning more adventurous GWR coach projects ...

Edited September 5, 2022 by DavidK71

[Sailor Charon]

At the risk of this being another 'me too' type post, I have to say that that's looking really good.

[DavidK71]

On 20/07/2011 at 11:49, Sailor Charon said:

At the risk of this being another 'me too' type post, I have to say that that's looking really good.

All such posts are always welcome!

Edited September 5, 2022 by DavidK71

[DavidK71]

No further progress until the N Gauge Society shop re-opens, but the nice weather today has allowed for a few rather better photographs to be taken outside:

 

[MrSimon]

Looks good! Only 6 more days 'till the shop opens

 

Simon

[Guest Natalie Graham]

No further progress until the N Gauge Society shop re-opens,

 

 

You still have to put the wings on. Be a shame not to now you've painted them.

[garetha]

Hi,

 

Sorry if this is a stupid question but is there any soldering involved in this kit? If not, what glue is used?

 

Thanks

 

Gareth

[DavidK71]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but is there any soldering involved in this kit? If not, what glue is used?

Definitely not a stupid question, as soldering irons generally scare me off. The kit comes with instructions that cover bogie and underframe construction both with and without soldering. I have gone for 'without' - I used slow-setting cyano-acrylate ("Slo-Zap superglue") for small parts, and Evostick Impact for the larger joins and for metal-plastic joins, where some flexibility in the joint is desirable.

[DavidK71]

While waiting for the lining and transfers to finish off the Hawksworth brake third, I've decided to start on a few other coaches, so a few days ago the postman brought a parcel from Ultima, containing a couple more Hawksworths (including a rather scary looking etch for GWR six-wheel bogies that we'll come back to later) and an LMS 50' full brake.

 

I've started in the same place as before, making up bogies. The photograph shows the current state, after removing the bogie etches from the fret, filing off the edges and drilling out the holes for the mounting screws:

 

 

On the left is a GWR bogie, with an LMS one on the right. After the last coach I'm feeling fairly comfortable with the GWR bogie: glue on the axle boxes and springs, fold into shape, insert wheels, and glue the corners together. The LMS bogie is going to be a little more interesting. As the photograph shoes the brass is somewhat thinner, and despite being as careful as I could, you can see that the metal around the bottom of the hole has started to tear as it was drilled. To fix this I've filed off the torn scraps and then re-flattened the etch by putting it in a vice between two steel rulers. You can also see that the LMS bogie won't be as rigid as the GWR one, as it doesn't fold up to give four corners that can be glued together. My current plan is to glue lengths of 1mm square rod in as bracing - we'll see how that goes.

 

There will also have to be some experimentation with the roof. The kit comes with an aluminium roof and the instructions describe using "Letraline" 0.5 mm tape to add the rain strips. Unfortunately it seems that this tape, at least in such thin widths, was discontinued a few years back (Letraset's whole range seems much smaller than it used to be) - there's a post from a certain well known coach-builder from this board commenting that he stock-piled what supplies he could get when they stopped making it. As an alternative I shall be trying Model Technics Trimline, a tape used for lining remote-control cars and similar. Has anyone tried this, or have any other suggestions of tape to try?

[Etched Pixels]

I file out the holes, I've never tried drilling them and from your photo I don't think I will either 8)

 

I've used very fine microstrip for rainstrips successfully, fine phosphor bronze wire also works but is trickier to fit to plastic roofs. I've never been enough of a perfectionist to use hairs across the roof at all the joins however !

 

You might want to try a nut and bolt and a pair of washers one each side of the hole to straighten it out any further ?

 

 

Alan

[DavidK71]

Some more progress with the LMS bogie has been made. To start with, all seemed fine: I glued on the overlays for the bogies, and the white metal axle boxes and springs. I then tried the slightly cheating method used earlier for the GWR bogies of not bothering with top hat bearings, and just letting the axles run in the holes in the axle boxes. However, that proved a definite no go: as the brass is a bit thiner (and therefore more flexible), and the bogie a bit wider, than the GWR ones, the axles kept coming out. Disaster!

 

As that wasn't going to work I carefully removed the axle boxes and dug out the top hat bearings I had. The holes in the bogie were enlarged for the top hat bearings with a 1.6mm drill bit - I used the somewhat unorthodox method of turning the drill bit by hand in the hole - as the brass is thin this doesn't take too long, and gives fine control. The bearings were pushed through and then filed back from the other side, the axle boxes glued back on, the bogie refolded, and, much to my relief, it worked 😃:

 

 

Thr photograph shows that I've attempted to make the bogie more rigid by attaching several pieces of plasticard rod transversely across the bogie frame, which seems to have worked quite well. The last photograph does demonstrate one mistake I have made, though: I've filed the top hat bearings too much, so that the axle doesn't fit snugly in them, but has rather too much play left and right. This doesn't seem to affect it's running, however. Next time I'll go easier with the filing.

 

On 10/08/2011 at 21:29, Etched Pixels said:

I file out the holes, I've never tried drilling them and from your photo I don't think I will either 8)

That sounds like a much better idea, to which I will definitely pay attention to next time!

 

On 10/08/2011 at 21:29, Etched Pixels said:

I've used very fine microstrip for rainstrips successfully, fine phosphor bronze wire also works but is trickier to fit to plastic roofs.

I had wondered about that, but wondered if the microstrip would stay stuck down, and how to glue it sufficiently. I should perhaps just give that a go if the tape doesn't work out.

 

On 10/08/2011 at 21:29, Etched Pixels said:

You might want to try a nut and bolt and a pair of washers one each side of the hole to straighten it out any further ?

Happily, it isn't as bad as the photograph makes it seem. I have flattened the etch a bit more and the assembled bogie seems to be okay when used under the Hawksworth coach.

Edited September 5, 2022 by DavidK71

[PaulCheffus]

I file out the holes, I've never tried drilling them and from your photo I don't think I will either 8)

Alan

 

Hi

 

I ream (I have a tapered reamer that goes from about 3mm to 13mm) the holes out on these bogies. I tried drilling with the same effect as above.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[DavidK71]

Where does the time go? I've at least managed to get a little more done on the Hawksworth coach: lining and numbering has now been applied to the sides:

 

 

The initial attempt at lining did not go well. I had hoped that the paint was sufficiently gloss that decals could be applied directly to it, so skipped applying a gloss varnish. Not a good idea: in particular the fact that the crimson had been sprayed on top of the cream meant that there was a step that the lining decals folded into. Applying Microsol just made the decals conform better to the uneven surface, making the unevenness more obvious.

 

After removing the first attempt, I glossed the sides with Halfords clear lacquer from a rattle can, which gives a nice, glossy finish. You have to be careful with it though as it's easy to get too thick a coat - the trick seems to be to keep the can moving quickly when spraying. This has given a much better surface for the decals. In places the carrier film is still visible where it catches the light, but I'm confident that a further layer of varnish will deal with that.

 

Anyway, once the decals are thoroughly dry, another gloss coat to seal them in, and then the next task will be to experiment with satin varnish, as the full gloss finish is just too shiny.