-missy- Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Hello. Recent frustrations with Highclere and an ever grrowing collection of 2mm narrow gauge rolling stock has meant that my mind has been wandering about a possible layout as a sucessor to Highclere. Inspired by a painting (which I will post another time) of a little dockside / canal scene I have come up with a concept plan for a layout and I thought I would post it on here 'for comment' The plan is for a circular layout hopefully no larger than 24" in diameter, the points that I wanted to include were... To include more than one level of track To include some inset trackwork To include some dual gauge track or at least gauge crossing each other To include some water I think I have managed to tick all the boxes so far, the important bits would be... To be able to run DCC standard gauge and DC narrow gauge together To have 'simple' mechanically controlled points built into the baseboard To have integeral lighting And finally my favorite... To be fuily illuminated So then guys, what do you think? Highclere of course, takes priority so this project probably will not happen in the near future. Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I gave up on 2mm NG because the Z gauge steam chassis either run fast or not at all - hardly suitable for fiddly shunting. The more recent Z gauge bogie diesels and electric locos are much nicer to control, but probably unsuitable for a Welsh shunting scene. I envy your optimism! Mixed gauge track is pretty easy to do, but mixing DCC and DC is a bit risky. I was told by experts to switch completely to one power source or the other on shared track - don't have both live in the shared section at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Thanks for your interesting reply. My optimism isnt without substance! Some new controllers are more than capable of controlling a Z gauge chassis at slow speeds to make shunting possible. Especially with motors like the little Nigel Lawton 6mm diameter ones. I personally think shunting in Z gauge (or Nn3) is possible. As for mixing DCC and DC I think you are right and I will have to have a big switch on the layout which says "DCC / DC" unless there is a little electrical bit of wizardry which can do it? Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted May 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2011 WIth no loops shunting could be tricky. Gradients would also end up being quite fearsome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 As for mixing DCC and DC I think you are right and I will have to have a big switch on the layout which says "DCC / DC" unless there is a little electrical bit of wizardry which can do it? Missy On the layout as drawn, you could simply operate the isolation as part of the mechanism for the NG point on the dockside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Very cute layout. Sort of reminds me of Littleton Curve (unsure of exact name or spelling) by Brand or Brant? The gradient issue has been mentioned by Kris. I had planned something similar and worked out that I could get away with the clearance the back by angling the base level down toward the rear (viewed from the front) and the upper level up toward the rear. This will give you the desired clearance at the back with only half the gradient lift per level (in theory...). Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted May 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2011 I think this is a cracking little design and would love to steal it for my own use. Having said that, there are a few points I'd make. 1 - the upper loop of the narrow gauge has some ambitiously tight curve radii. I would definitely ease those out a bit, especially where the turnout is located for the line down to the quay. 2 - don't worry about the possibility of the Nn3 side being hard to get slow running. It's not at all. I can shunt on An Clár with pretty good reliability. The System Joeger controller is very good with Marklin mechs and it would probably be OK with your little diesel too. 3 - think "coastal port" rather than canal wharf. There was a very similar set up to this on Walney Island. Also look at Aberdovey Habour for inspiration, and dare I mention Shell Island? You could include a jetty running off at a rightangle served by a wagon turntable and it could also run into one of the buildings. I can envisage now you might also make this work too. The clue is magnets... 4 - Locos would need to be at the lower end of the gradient so that would place them handily for shunting the wharf. Goods only lines are much more relaxed about things like this. 5 - 3ft gauge is a bit rare in Wales but I don't think you'll get any penalty points on your modeller's licence for this. 6 - it's all on one baseboard so no joints .... Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Missy, That looks a really interesting idea - I love the idea of it being illuminated! I'd agree with most of Mark's points - I can't think of any places where the standard gauge, narrow gauge and canal all came together in one place inland (Chirk on the Glyn Valley Tramway comes close, but I don't thing there was a wharf). I see you're coming round to the idea of building layouts that you can carry around under one arm! Superb sketch as well. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex Duckworth Posted May 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hello Missy, thats a very attractive design for a small layout, I would echo 2mmMark's comments particularly about the upper loop radii and going coastal rather than canal - you could have barges or lighters rather than narrow boats. Given your comments about shunting/slow running, as I have done no 2mm/N gauge previously I would be interested in your opinion re. a good small motor controller? Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Thank you for the constructive comments folks, I think Marks comments above cover all the points raised so I will answer them below... I think this is a cracking little design and would love to steal it for my own use. Having said that, there are a few points I'd make. Im really glad you like it. I had a feeling something like that would appeal to you. 1 - the upper loop of the narrow gauge has some ambitiously tight curve radii. I would definitely ease those out a bit, especially where the turnout is located for the line down to the quay. The NG track in the fiddleyard is two levels, the track that leads from the tunnel mouth is on the lower level and the point is on the level above. The idea was to have a single track spiral leading from the fiddleyard then round the inner loop with the bridge, through the fiddleyard again and then finally leading to the quayside inset track. Its a little hard to show this and the picture isnt that clear in that respect. 2 - don't worry about the possibility of the Nn3 side being hard to get slow running. It's not at all. I can shunt on An Clár with pretty good reliability. The System Joeger controller is very good with Marklin mechs and it would probably be OK with your little diesel too. I am very pleased how my little diesel engine performs with a normal 'cheapy' controller so I have no worries about shunting with it. 3 - think "coastal port" rather than canal wharf. There was a very similar set up to this on Walney Island. Also look at Aberdovey Habour for inspiration, and dare I mention Shell Island? You could include a jetty running off at a rightangle served by a wagon turntable and it could also run into one of the buildings. I can envisage now you might also make this work too. The clue is magnets... I agree, I think it makes more sense doesnt it. The design to easily be changed to suit, imagine the canal boat changed to a fishing boat or similar. I like your idea of a small jetty and it would be a bit of a challenge. It would mean running a track at right angles across 2 tracks though (1 Standard Gauge and 1 NG) as the far right 'warehouse' seems the ideal place to add it. 4 - Locos would need to be at the lower end of the gradient so that would place them handily for shunting the wharf. Goods only lines are much more relaxed about things like this. What about adding a siding just before the tunnel mouth entrance to hold an engine? 5 - 3ft gauge is a bit rare in Wales but I don't think you'll get any penalty points on your modeller's licence for this. I know but I will have to 'bend' the rules a bit. I could easily get bogged down with the technicalities but I would love to recreate the 'feel' of something. 6 - it's all on one baseboard so no joints .... That i true, very true indeed! Thanks. Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Missy having just read this and love the plan not only for the your artistic talents but you ever expanding repertoire of modelling skills I was particularly amazed at the compactness of you little shunter and appreciate the time you spent to explain it to me at Railex on towards the end on Saturday. I would imagine that there might be a possibility of DCCing the NG? some of the Z scale chips are really tiny! I am really looking forward to seeing this evolve.. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Just another thought, what about the quay curving towards the front slightly to get rid of the straight line and maybe give you a tad more space? t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Looks good to me ! Expanding on points that have been covered already: The curves on the upper part of the narrow gauge section look sharp to me, though I have no practical experience of Z gauge. There should be plenty of space to open them out if necessary. I was sceptical about the two narrow gauge line emerging from the hill in the upper right part of the layout (would have appeared more sensible to have them diverging outside the tunnel), but your explanation that they are on different levels with an incline to the upper loop resolves that problem. I wouldn't necessarily discard the canal possibility - whilst canals are rare in mountainous areas (for obvious reasons) they did exist. For example, see the Tramways section of http://en.wikipedia....nd_Brecon_Canal. And canal narrowboats would be long and thin, which might fit better, particularly if you flatten the circle a bit. And a couple of fresh points: Feeding "Small Quay" into a computer translator gave me "Cei Bychan" - I will leave it to somebody fluent in Welsh to judge whether "bychan" is more appropriate than "bach". From a traditional GWR perspective, standard gauge was 7 feet, narrow gauge was 4 feet 8 inches - not sure what the various sub-narrow gauges around 2 feet would have been called . I suppose your proposed nissen hut places it clearly in later period (1916 at the earliest), together with your little diesel loco (has it been named yet?) thus justifying the modern usage . If you put a temporary backscene right across the middle, it would almost be small enough to qualify for the 2011 Challenge . Look forward to seeing progress on this in the future David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelb Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Missy having seen how your modeling skills are on show with high clere i would expect this to be even more realistic . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Missy, that's a lovely looking design, and what I particularly like about it is the circle - really transforms a neat plan into a work of art (as you always seem to do!). I will be following with much interest as always David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted May 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 31, 2011 as a thought givena single loco could you not place the DCC chip in circuit to power the track of the narrow gauge would solve a lot of problems ,,,,,,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 as a thought givena single loco could you not place the DCC chip in circuit to power the track of the narrow gauge would solve a lot of problems ,,,,,,, Hi Nick. A nice idea but how that would work with more than one engine I dont know, even if they arent on the track at the same time. Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hi Nick. A nice idea but how that would work with more than one engine I dont know, even if they arent on the track at the same time. Missy Interesting design Missy - I'm intrigued as to why you want to use DCC at all on this layout with it's simple trackplan? Is this so you can have sound? I struggle to see the reason otherwise - though I'm sure you have one! Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hi Alan. All my standard gauge engines for Highclere are DCC. Its just so I can use them on this layout too. Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted June 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2011 thought about off track DCC for the narrow bit you would still have to isolate from the main line unless some Clevr person knows better may be worth asking on MERG ? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted June 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'd resist the temptation to add more sidings to the scenic part. The appeal of this is its simplicity. Here's an idea - what about a shunting tractor? Laurie Adams has demonstrated how it can be done in 2mm, and these are on their way: http://www.modeleniu...R--NTEA001.aspx http://www.modeleniu...--NTRAC001.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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