MRDEEDIESEL Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Real chuffed that we are to get a new class 20 from Farish and pardon me if this has been mentioned before but surely if there was one loco type that required a "dummy" version...it has to be the class 20.I know that Farish went on record saying that they would not produce non powered locos but surely this is an obvious candidate?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted June 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2011 The benefits to the modeller are obvious - it's less easy to see how Bachmann would gain from selling unpowered units. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I agree, this and the Class 37 There are two solutions 1 Purchase a model and keep the working chassis as spare for an eventual failure Purchase a dummy chassis from Ian Stoate Models 2 When a model fails, strip out all the mechanical and electrical components (thus reducing some of the weight and removing the friction) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 1 Purchase a model and keep the working chassis as spare for an eventual failure You might as well leave them both powered if you're going to that expense! Personally I run double header pairs of powered class 20s and have never had any trouble. The chassis shouldn't fail either if maintained. Sure, there is the perennial split gear issue, but these are easily replaced with thick gears if/when they do split. If fitted correctly replacements will not split again . So don't be too sceptical about longevity! Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygif Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 i might be teaching granmothers to suck eggs, but i've found that my two 20s will buffer lock on back to back settrack points (st5/6s in the fiddle) so you need to either remove/shorten the buffer or make a longer rapido coupler or change the coupling system altogether. Had a dummy chassis from Ian Stoat, never got it to run nicely, even with lots of lead in it to stop it jumping the track on point frogs. I think it might have been a bit bent as the boggies seemed to foul the body on occassions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDEEDIESEL Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Im afraid that the old style Farish 20 has been one of my poorer performers full stop hence my delight that it is to be upgraded.It would be ideal if they were offered in special ltd edition powered & dummy packs for modellers to easily achieve double headers/top n tail operations.Maybe an idea that someone could look at in the future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Just out of interest but how come Dapol can do dummy units and get away with it and Farish cannot? Surely by being able to sell extra dummy units then you can get extra revenue from a design and also please modellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 how come Dapol can do dummy units and get away with it and Farish cannot? As much as I like the Dapol dummy locos, they don't have directional lights, and this was a big mistake As a result I have not purchased any Well, I purchased one and converted it, but it was so much hassle I am not doing any more! Ironically, the Mark 3B DVT comes with directional lights Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Dapol can do dummy units because it has a surplus of body shells obtained from all the models that are returned to it because of poor quality control. I'm only half joking. I have purchased 4 powered Dapol locos over the years and I returned 3 three of them within days. I should have returned the 4th, as well, but decided to have a go at improving it myself, instead. Mistake. I think Dapol locos look superb but I will not buy another because of the poor QC. I've had an occasional bad Farish loco, too, but nothing like what I've experience with the Dapol locos. I do own a dummy Dapol Hymek. Not much I can really do with it, but I wanted a Hymek I wouldn't have to send back to the shop. To be honest, I'm actually quite pleased with it - it's a fabulous looking thing. I have several of the "old" Farish and BachFar Class 20s. Mine are all actually very good performers and run well together and I like them very much, though they can buffer lock if I forget to arrange them with the slightly faster of a pair as the pilot engine. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted June 5, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 5, 2011 I've never had problems with my Ian Stoate Dummy class 20 Chassis, but it took a bit of fettling to get it right, particularly filing the axle ends so they didn't touch the insides of the bogie frame, making sure the hole was dead verticle (but then I opened it out slightly to allow for slight changes of gradient etc) and making sure the metal rims were glued to the plastic inners on all wheels. I also had to take the buffers off and remount them slightly closer to the body to they weren't locking on curves at the nose end. Having said all that I've got a ISM dummy 37 chassis that bent like a banana which I'm stripping for the useful bits and making a new one in thick plasticard; so it might just depend on the resin used for each batch made. I think being able to buy dummy chassis/units is a good idea, but maybe not to the same volume as the recent Dapol 66/67s...? But there should definitely be dummy class 20s sold, and dummy chassis for 31s, 37s, 47s and 66s be available from Farish Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Thumper Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 easy thing to do if you really want a dummy unit is to by a grafar or farish china (poole moulding) engine and take the bits out the chassis. remove the main motor and that remove the gears from the bogies leaving the wheelsets in there, then you have a spare motor and gears, you can revert it back to working if you ever need to and the dummy has some weight in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 easy thing to do if you really want a dummy unit is to by a grafar or farish china (poole moulding) engine and take the bits out the chassis. remove the main motor and that remove the gears from the bogies leaving the wheelsets in there, then you have a spare motor and gears, you can revert it back to working if you ever need to and the dummy has some weight in it. Sorry to be seemingly obtuse, but I still don't see the point when you've gone the the expense of buying 2 locos why you'd want to rip the heart out of one, leaving the other with more work to do! 2 locos run well together IMHO and experience, and give more pulling power. You can also separate them and run independently - particularly useful in depot area scenes. I find the couple of dummies I have bought rarely get used because they are unable to operate individually. So to me actually a false economy... Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDEEDIESEL Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 I was hoping that maybe the N Gauge Society might pick up on this as recently we have seen them venture into RTR wagons/snowploughs with Farish & Dapol.The tooling will exist so i cant imagine there would be much of a problem.Versions with or without lights also would be viable.Not sure the society could justify a RTR loco in general but perhaps "dummy" locos could be something they could look at????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibuchan Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Sorry to be seemingly obtuse, but I still don't see the point when you've gone the the expense of buying 2 locos why you'd want to rip the heart out of one, leaving the other with more work to do! 2 locos run well together IMHO and experience, and give more pulling power. I have had to do this with a couple of 47's as the fiddle yard on our layout has breaks in it connected to the points which will stop the loco once it passes the track break. So a second loco would cause major problems with that as it would just keep pushing through. There is one space that will take a powered 37 and powered 20 just but as the 20 makes a hell of a lot of noise, so I decommisioned a 47 in DRS livery to replace it. however, A pair of 20s in a powered + dummy or a 2 powered, double pack in DRS livery would be great!! Alistair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZmodeller Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 The new ones will have NEMs which are more rigid and have more options for spacing (LL, LS, SS). You culd even use the Dapol ones or the microtrains type when they eventually appear. It would be proposterous for Farish to produce a new class 20 that could not work in multiple. I wonder if they are considering a reverse polarity version for DC Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDEEDIESEL Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Yes ...it would be ideal if Farish offered powered & unpowered packs in various liveries.Time will tell! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Given that the class 24 chassis will quite happily shift 24 Peco HAA hoppers up my 1:65 gradient, I would be hopeful that the class 20 is capable of a similar amount. Of course with the narrower body there will be less room for the chassis block, and so any material removed for the PCB and presumably to facilitate a decoder if required will have a larger impact than under a full width body. I think I'd perfer to run a power/power pair than have the dead weight of a dummy impact on the size of the train that can be pulled by a single locomotive, especially in a class that won't have much meat behind it unless the shell is going to be cast metal for the extra weight that brings, as per the Poole models. I wonder if they are considering a reverse polarity version for DC Tug of war! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 One reason for a dummy 20 is for a sound fitted pair. However I imagine that is somewhat of a fringe market. My DRS pair of modded old ones is using one motorised chassis and the other chassis which has been seriously abused with a hacksaw to hold the sound parts of the mix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 The new ones will have NEMs which are more rigid and have more options for spacing (LL, LS, SS). You culd even use the Dapol ones or the microtrains type when they eventually appear. It would be proposterous for Farish to produce a new class 20 that could not work in multiple. I wonder if they are considering a reverse polarity version for DC Peter Hi Peter Sorry if I am being thick here, but what would be the point of a reverse polarity one? Cheers Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Alco Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 You'd only need to reverse one of a pair if coupled nose to nose running on DCC by telling the decoder it's running 'backwards' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZmodeller Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 You'd only need to reverse one of a pair if coupled nose to nose running on DCC by telling the decoder it's running 'backwards' Hi People, I'm on DCC so it's an easy fix but for DC it's more difficult. During service it was extremely uncommon for 20's to run without a partner and, when working in multiple they were ALWAYS coupled nose to nose. Therefore, one loco has to have it's NDOT or polarity reversed otherwise there will indeed be either a tug of war - or a scrum!. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Er, it's DC therefore it's even easier to fix. You just turn the loco around. Reversing the polarity on the motor in fact creates the problem you're describing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZmodeller Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Just seeing how many would take the bait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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