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'Railroad' Tornado


MarkC
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The Tornado on Hattons site in BR apple green is listed as a special edition - NEW TOOLING. Is there a wopping difference between this and the Railroad model?

Depends if you call £31 wopping. Sorry. :D

It would seem from various comments that the difference is mainly in the finishing details. Looking forward to the review, then we will all know the exact situation re which offers the best way to go.

Bernard

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Thanks for this....much appreciated. If structurally the same including motion, I may as well repaint the cheaper model. On the otherhand, if a BR green version will be only £31.00 dearer, then its cheaper to buy RTR when it saves time and effort.

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For me this is a simple question. The Bachmann model is more accurate and better value for money. Especially when you compare the set that Hornby are doing with the Bachmann A1 and some purchased Mk. 1s.

 

 

However, this is aimed at Joe Public, who trust the brand name and the engines name. So it will sell and be an introductory set for those younger modellers that Hornby hope take an interest...

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For me this is a simple question. The Bachmann model is more accurate and better value for money.

 

That is simply not true. If you want a model of Tornado, Hornby's model is in no uncertain terms more accurate as a depiction of Tornado. Bachmann's model, being based on their standard (non roller bearing) Peppercorn A1 model, doesn't have all the detail differences Tornado herself incorporates.

 

I might add, the RRP of the Bachmann model is just over £140 with the Railroad Tornado and Special Edition under £80 and £100 respectively.

 

Especially when you compare the set that Hornby are doing with the Bachmann A1 and some purchased Mk. 1s.

 

I do agree however that the pricing of the Tornado Express set is more than a little steep for the A1 (£80, as it's essentially a dark green Railroad edition) plus three MK1s (which surely are not to the value of £80 the three?)

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That is simply not true.

 

Your entitled to your opinion.... Im entitled to mine....

 

For me, the Bachmann machine is better. Its shape and molding is better. Running qualities of Bachmann machines I normally prefer to Hornby. The pony truck under the front doenst have a massive gap. The detail differences on the tender have been included and the lining and printing on Bachmanns is better. Id pay the extra for the Bachmann model - this is simply about a brand name reaching out to Joe Public. I dont care about roller barings, etc, you cant see them when its thumping along at scale 50 mph or stood still need a magnifiying glass to notice.

 

As for coaches, £80 for that coaching set is a rip off, the Bachmann ones are much better, accurate and detailed.

 

However, if you want to champion this further feel free....

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Your entitled to your opinion.... Im entitled to mine....

 

But factually, given Hornby's Tornado incorporates the roller bearing axle boxes, the different cab roof profile, the AWS box, the different piping around the smokebox, and the shorter (marginally) chimney, the Hornby model is, no doubt, more accurate to Tornado than the Bachmann machine.

 

The difference between accuracy and detailing must be made clear. The Bachmann model is better with separately fitted items, such as handrails on the cab and deflectors (Hornby's are moulded).

 

For me, the Bachmann machine is better. Its shape and molding is better. Running qualities of Bachmann machines I normally prefer to Hornby.

 

Shape and moulding I can understand as the Hornby model has moulded handrails and buffers. However, I have to ask - have you seen this model in motion yet? I have, running the Railroad model against its Bachmann counterpart for nearly three weeks now, and the Hornby model runs much better round the trainset curves and over trainset points than the Bachmann model. It's smoother too, with the flywheel fitted, and I'd wager slightly faster too.

 

The detail differences on the tender have been included and the lining and printing on Bachmanns is better.

 

Except the roller bearing axle boxes of course, which make quite a difference to the look of the model.

 

I dont care about roller barings, etc, you cant see them when its thumping along at scale 50 mph or stood still need a magnifiying glass to notice.

 

<_<

 

You'll forgive me I hope for being a pedant, but how can you say one is "more accurate" and then turn around and say you won't notice the correct detail on the Hornby model? You can't have it both ways.

 

However, if you want to champion this further feel free....

 

I will, as I intend to do a full assessment of the two models (I now have both Bachmann and Hornby) and want to do an as unbiased as humanly possible video review of the two models in question. I refer the honourable gentlemen back to my original video review, near the start of the this thread for my previous thoughts on the Railroad model. :)

 

However, there is one thing of particular note I have noticed today, which may make some bearing on my thoughts of whichever model turns out to be inaccurate...

 

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Why is the Hornby Tornado 2mm shorter overall than the Bachmann model? There is a 2mm discrepancy in the length of the two models smokeboxes, it seems.

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In my previous review of the Hornby Railroad Tornado, I was impressed with the overall quality of the mechanism, and the accuracy of the model. I made a mistake in my review, where I incorrectly stated that there was no detail pack included in the box. It was in fact, stuck into a recess on the back of the polysterene packing.

 

The Special Edition model of Tornado has now been released, and with it comes the opportunity to compare it with the Bachmann model of Tornado. The Hornby model is an entirely new tooling which is based on the design of the new build A1, and the Bachmann model is a repaint with some slight modifications of its tooling, intended originally to portray the non-roller bearing locomotives of the Peppercorn A1 class.

 

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The outer sleeve for the Hornby box is supremely attractive, with side and top down illustrations of the Tornado model, and “special edition†branding, with the instantly recognisable RAF blue nameplates. On the back, there is a short description of Tornado and her building, along with a photograph of Tornado in her first year of operation (note the position of the chime whistle on the deflector).

 

post-1656-0-29223400-1309881097_thumb.jpg

 

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Removing the sleeve reveals the standard Railroad box, identical in all respects, bar the model inside, to the previous Railroad Tornado model. This is disappointing in some respects given the “special edition†status of the model.

 

post-1656-0-00275600-1309881129_thumb.jpg

 

In stark contrast, Bachmann's Tornado has the now familiar, standard Bachmann packaging, which incorporates its own blue/red outer sleeve, but unlike the Hornby box, includes a clear plastic panel for viewing the model. Of the two, the Bachmann model is better packaged, with a well designed plastic insert, into a cardboard tray protecting the model better than the polysterene tray of the Hornby model.

 

The first thing which strikes me when viewing the models together is their paint colour. The shade of green on the models is very different from each other, Bachmann's being too olive green in shade, and Hornby's too dark.

 

post-1656-0-97529700-1309881163_thumb.jpg

 

Looking at my own footage of Tornado, where the shade changes dependent on light source in any event, it's up to the individual to feel if either model gets the shade of green spot on. My personal preference would be for the Hornby shade.

 

In contrast, the red lining along the frames and running plate of engine and tender are similar shades, but differently applied. The Hornby model has much thinner lining, which makes the shade of red seem duller. The Bachmann model has this elaborate lining applied slightly wider, and the result is that the red appears much brighter. A quick glance at a photograph of the real thing, and it seems as if Hornby has the edge here with its much finer lining.

 

The white/black/white lining out on the locomotives and their tenders follows a similar pattern. Bachmann's lining out is marginally wider than that on the Hornby model, and the white of the lining out appears brighter as a result.

 

This is particularly noticeable on the cab and tender sides of the Bachmann model.

 

The nameplates and commemorative plaques on the smoke deflectors and frames are neatly applied on both, but the darker shade of the “brass†colour used for the nameplates is better on the Hornby model, making the nameplate more legible as a result.

 

Neither of the two models appear to have the correct shade of cream for the British Railways lettering or cabside numerals, and the size of the lettering and numbers on the Bachmann model appears overscale, the Hornby model being better for size and proportion, but being strangely more yellowish in its overall shade.

 

post-1656-0-05230200-1309881188_thumb.jpg

 

post-1656-0-55704200-1309881198_thumb.jpg

 

The worksplates and RA9 numerals on both are well applied and legible, although it is something of a surprise that the plug on the lower part of the cab on the Hornby model is printed as opposed to moulded, as on the Bachmann model.

 

On the tenders, the builders plague and dials on the cabinets are excellently reproduced on both models, but Hornby's tender includes the extra warning flashes on the rear of the tender, which as far as I can see from my own prototype photographs, the real 60163 Tornado does not have.

 

post-1656-0-87865900-1309881229_thumb.jpg

 

The smokebox door of both models are very convincing; the shade of silver for the smokebox door straps, handrail and door dart are in both cases, crisply applied. The upper lamp bracket is moulded on the Hornby model, and a separately fitted item on the Bachmann model.

 

post-1656-0-39928900-1309881248_thumb.jpg

 

The Bachmann model has the upper hand with regards the distinctive chime whistle, which is a separate item, and painted in a gold shade: the Hornby Tornado's whistle is moulded into the deflector, and remains unpainted.

 

In addition, only the top electric light on the Hornby model is painted, the rest (which are not factory fitted as the Bachmann model's are, and are in a detailing pack) are left as unpainted black plastic.

 

The shape and size of the front bufferbeams are very different, the Hornby Tornado's bufferbeam being deeper than the Bachmann model. There's no doubt in my mind that the Bachmann Tornado falls down in this area, Hornby nailing the diagonals at the edge of the beams, and having its footsteps moulded neatly into them, avoiding the self-fitting nature of the Bachmann Tornado's steps.

 

However, the Hornby model is let down by having plastic moulded buffers, instead of sprung metal ones, as on the Bachmann Tornado. This was the first modification I made to my Railroad Tornado model, as seen here in its new guise as 60163 when first completed at Darlington works. The model as delivered had damage to its right hand buffer, indicative of the extremely thin plastic heads that have been utilized by Hornby for this model.

 

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The piping around the smokebox area – which is different on Tornado to the original Peppercorn A1s – is correctly represented on the Hornby model, on both sides, Bachmann's portraying the original arrangement, and therefore is inaccurate in this respect to the real Tornado.

 

The valve gear is finer on the Bachmann model although the connecting rods and coupling rods are chunkier. This overall is the better of the two representations of Tornado's motion, Hornby's setup using much thinner metals overall, and looking decidedly flimsy.

 

post-1656-0-91967800-1309881322_thumb.jpg

 

This in stark contrast to the cylinders, where Bachmann's are better moulded, and slightly shorter in length to the Hornby cylinders, which appear rather larger overall. However, the positioning and incline of the cylinders is better on the Hornby Tornado than the Bachmann Tornado.

 

However, curiously there are two holes for attaching, presumbly, the cylinder drain cocks underneath the Hornby Tornado's cylinders – but no cylinder drain cocks are provided in the detailing pack.

 

The deflectors are, curiously, different lengths and heights from each other. The Bachmann Tornado has separately fitted handrails, whilst the Hornby Tornado has moulded plastic handrails. The Hornby deflectors are bigger overall. From delving into my photographs of the prototype, it seems the Hornby deflectors are a better match overall, whilst having a lower level of detail.

 

It's a similar story with the cabs – the Bachmann model has more separately fitted detail, including glazing on the cab spectacles and side windows, and separately fitted handrails, but the cab roof (as to be expected) is a representation of the original Peppercorn A1s, and not reflective of Tornado's different roof profile.

 

The roof profile of the Hornby Tornado – as stated in the Railroad Tornado review – captures the profile of the real locomotive's roof perfectly. Neither of the two models has opening roof vents or similar details compared to other Pacific models on the market (notably, the Hornby A4 and A3 Pacifics).

 

The whistle on the Bachmann A1 is on the correct side of the cab (leaving a hole for placement of a whistle in the original design specification), but is mounted too high, and too close to the safety valves. The Hornby Tornado's whistle is not only better shaped, but it is in the correct place.

 

post-1656-0-42071000-1309881348_thumb.jpg

 

Inside the cab, the Bachmann Tornado's boiler fittings are well painted, and stand out with a few separately fitted details such as the pull out regulator handle. The Hornby model is a one piece moulding which captures the overall look, but seems plainer in unpainted black plastic. Both models feature the cabinets under the bucket seats in the cab, as on the real Tornado.

 

Bachmann's Tornado features a lovely etched metal fallplate, which is not modelled on the Hornby Tornado, and cab doors too, as part of its detailing pack.

 

post-1656-0-30041300-1309881376_thumb.jpg

 

The stovepipe chimney on the Hornby model is crisply moulded, and is a separate plug in attachment, allowing for different variants. The Bachmann Tornado's chimney is in two parts, with the top half allowing a switch between stovepipe and rimmed chimneys, and to be frank, this arrangement doesn't look particularly convincing for either Tornado or the original locomotives this tooling has portrayed. The Hornby chimney is marginally shorter, reflecting the shorter stature of the real Tornado to its predecessors.

 

On the boiler, the Bachmann Tornado's washout plugs are not particularly well moulded, although the overall quality of the moulding and its paint finish is excellent. The Hornby Tornado's boiler, including its washout plugs, seems much more convincing in over shape and detail, but the lower handrail is moulded on, as opposed to being separately fitted.

 

post-1656-0-57594200-1309881404_thumb.jpg

 

The tender bodies are both well moulded, but the Bachmann model edges out the Hornby model with its separately fitted details on the tender footplate, and with its standard fitted handrails. The printing of the dials and other painted detail is superior on the Hornby tender as a whole, although the added overhead warning stickers is something of a puzzle. It is a shame that, like on the front bufferbeam, the tender buffers are moulded in plastic as part of the frames.

 

post-1656-0-47963300-1309881446_thumb.jpg

 

The Hornby tender is a better representation of the real thing, incorporating some excellently moulded roller bearing axleboxes throughout, and there is a significant difference in “look†when the two tenders are stood side by side.

 

post-1656-0-94240700-1309881426_thumb.jpg

 

Finally, both models are equipped with NEM pockets, allowing for changeover of couplings from tension lock to kadees if required (as demonstrated on the tenders).

 

Overall, the two models are impressive in their own rights, for different reasons. The attention to detail of the Hornby Tornado by far outstrips the minor modifications Bachmann made to their tender bodyshell; in contrast, the separately fitted detail of the Bachmann model is vast.

 

The decision to buy one over the other will come down to, I think, price - the recommended retail price for the Hornby Special Edition Tornado model is is £92.99, whereas Bachmann Tornado's recommended retail price is £141.95, with another batch of these models expected later in the year.

 

If you want a model OF Tornado, buy the Hornby model. If you want the best "representation" of Tornado, then buy Bachmann's model with all the separately fitted detail that comes with it.

 

I'll be doing a full video with haulage and speed tests for the two models, in my usual Youtube style, later this week.

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That's a good review! Thank you.

 

It is interesting how some of the details are different in size, such as the length of the smokebox - surely a definitive measurement could easily be found?

 

Your review has convinced me that the Bachmann model is a better buy. Whilst it may have some wrong details, it has MORE detail and if you are not a rivet counter, it would surely come across as the more impressive model. Whilst the Hornby model looks good, it does look (relatively) more like a toy.

 

Having seen your youtube videos before, I would hope that these two perform equally well on the strength test - i.e, they can pull a full circuit worth of mk1s!

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May sound a strange question, but between the Railroad and "special edition" ones which would you say is better value for money?

 

Both are in their own ways, good value. The printing of the livery on the Special Edition is excellent, but the box and its sleeve did not impress me particularly. I feel the Railroad model needs to have been slightly lower in RRP - 65 mark - to justify the 90+ price tag of the special edition. But equally, I think the Special Edition is the perfect balance between the Railroad's simplified livery, and the top of the range (detail wise) Bachmann model.

 

Overall, the Hornby SE would be my preference, but then I'd prefer the accuracy over the details. Depends what you'd prefer to go for - a well detailed representation (Bachmann), or a very accurate, but simple, model.

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Separate handrails are fine so long as the knobs are not wopping great lollipops. Otherwise there's something to be said for moulded handrails (but not a lot). I said at the start I thought Hornby might be trying it on with cheaper detail. Modellers are saying they like the Hornby model and only time will tell if this is seen as a green light for moulded handrails, smokebox dart and lamp irons on standard models.

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Both are in their own ways, good value. The printing of the livery on the Special Edition is excellent, but the box and its sleeve did not impress me particularly. I feel the Railroad model needs to have been slightly lower in RRP - 65 mark - to justify the 90+ price tag of the special edition. But equally, I think the Special Edition is the perfect balance between the Railroad's simplified livery, and the top of the range (detail wise) Bachmann model.

 

Overall, the Hornby SE would be my preference, but then I'd prefer the accuracy over the details. Depends what you'd prefer to go for - a well detailed representation (Bachmann), or a very accurate, but simple, model.

 

 

Thanks for the time spent on sharing the above information.

Looking forward to your uTube compilation B4 I decide..

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Thanks S.A.C for your excellent reviews in this thread. from what i can see it comes down to what level of detail/accuracy one is willing to live with. The Hornby SE certainly does it for me, only because of the tender bearings. I am sure someone is already conteplating swapping the chassis of the Bachmann and Hornby tenders of possible!

It will be interesting to see (if it has not been done already) if a detailing pack(s) will become available, that way one could detail the Hornby offerings to whatever level one wanted.

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Great SE Tornado review S.A.C. Does the Hornby one come with etched nameplates like Bachmann's.

 

Saw the Railroad Tornado for the first time in Crawley Modelzone in Crawley on Monday. No Special Edition yet though.

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The printing of the dials and other painted detail is superior on the Hornby tender as a whole, although the added overhead warning stickers is something of a puzzle.

 

Looks like it's Hornbys way of reproducing the stickers that are on the “Anti Climbers†or whatever they call them?

A dilemma for any manufacturer to model correctly…

 

Model them in mainline condition with the anti climbers on?

post-508-0-30567800-1309963780_thumb.jpg

 

Or model as static/preserved railway running with them off?

 

Or like this…

post-508-0-79793400-1309963864_thumb.jpg

 

Porcy

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Bachmann green with Hornby lining would make a great combination.

Yes I really wish Kader would get what ever machine they inherited with the Sander Kan buyout and put it in the Bachmann factory. I don't know how much the better paint job would increase Bachmann prices towards Hornby ones but the lining really would be worth it.

 

That last photo is interesting in showing how the skin of the tender has started showing up the internal bracing.

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That last photo is interesting in showing how the skin of the tender has started showing up the internal bracing.

 

So I Hope we' gonna see a CraigW Resin moulding so we can reproduce it... ;)

 

Before the nameplates were fitted the Smoke defelctors use to distort a bit at speed. (Not as much as a Red Bull RB7 front wing mind you but then that's not made from 1/4 inch plate.)

 

post-508-0-90523000-1309970384_thumb.jpg

 

Porcy

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Do these moulded buffers on the Hornby Tornado and tender just "come out" or are we talkng of some cutting and drilling if one wants to fit sprung buffers?

Any advice on a good method if we do?

Thanks in advance!

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Do these moulded buffers on the Hornby Tornado and tender just "come out" or are we talkng of some cutting and drilling if one wants to fit sprung buffers?

Any advice on a good method if we do?

Thanks in advance!

 

Nope, they are fully integrated into the bodyshell. Cut them off, carefully line up the drill, and make the holes for a set of Bachmann standard LNER sprung buffers to go into the holes. You get this:

 

post-1656-0-37890700-1310071670_thumb.jpg

 

Very simple job.

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