62440 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 When we have an example of projected ongoing costs against a rebuild as in this case the figures will always come out in favour of the original being maintained. Bernard In spite of my figures, you appear to agree with me. The point I was unsure about was ... "So, would it really have been cheaper to keep the whole line open in 1969 and save the public purse some £100,000,000 by 2014 to rebuild a branch line?" Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I made a spreadsheet with a similar set of figures a year or two back and came up with a total only around £15m different to yours, Bruce - which in the big scheme of things is a drop in the ocean. It does seem that it would have been cheaper to keep it open - think of not only the money that it will take to reopen (the branch) but also the time it takes to get the paperwork in place (from Feasibility Study in 1999!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed64a Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I went to see how things were progressing so far this year around the Eskbank/ Newtongrange area as you can see from the pictures the clearance of vegetation is progressing well. Looking South towards the original Eskbank station from the Glenesk Viaduct. A signal post base at the Glenesk Junction Up Platform shelter at Eskbank Eskbank footbridge with worker onsite. Looking North over the A7, a bridge will be needed here. Looking south to the site of the original Dalhousie Station. Original marker post for bridge 17. Bridge 17 Looking south over the Newbattle Viaduct Looking North over the viaduct, the new security fence is shown in the shadow. Newtongrange to Gorebridge will be my next walk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony graham Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Now that's a nice original foot bridge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Dave. Now that's a nice original foot bridge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Many thanks for posting these. I'm amazed that after 40 years the bolts on the concrete signal post base still have their nuts! Someone was obviously conscientious enough to screw them back on after removing the post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=38276 Ladhope Vale retaining wall, PW (phoenix Waverley) enabling works. A site for sore eyes. ...and a view at Low Buckholmside. I am so pleased to see this, and let's hope with BAM Nuttall on board, we'll see rails back here after some hard collar... http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=38173 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted April 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2012 That's great to see. 10 years ago I attended a wedding not far north of there, (I believe at a place called Middleton) and drove home along the A7. At the time I remember leaning on the wall of the wedding venue late in the evening looking at the curve of the old trackbed and thinking how great it would be to see an A3 rolling past with the glow from the firebox (A modicum of the amber nectar had been consumed) I never thought that trains would be running there so soon and remember seeing that retaining wall as I drove into Galashiels. That's looking good and please keep up the posting as the work progresses. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fegguk Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I noted last week that some buildings between Asda and the black path are being demolished to clear a path for the railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastleton P.Way Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I noted last week that some buildings between Asda and the black path are being demolished to clear a path for the railway. The re-born Waverley will certainly "know its place" in the modern world as it passes through Gala, with a single track squeezed in behind Asda and the present day A7. The "station" can best be described as a halt, accessed by a pelican crossing, and this far south of the "dynamic loops" the railway is effectively a dead end siding. I think there's little chance that Westinghouse will be persuaded to trial any of its new signalling systems this time round. But at least it'll be a railway, even if it is a shadow of its former self and unlikely to see an A3 grace its metals..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 That's great to see. 10 years ago I attended a wedding not far north of there, (I believe at a place called Middleton) and drove home along the A7. At the time I remember leaning on the wall of the wedding venue late in the evening looking at the curve of the old trackbed and thinking how great it would be to see an A3 rolling past with the glow from the firebox (A modicum of the amber nectar had been consumed) I never thought that trains would be running there so soon and remember seeing that retaining wall as I drove into Galashiels. That's looking good and please keep up the posting as the work progresses. Jamie Middleton overlooks the curving climb of Borthwick bank up towards Falahill; a beautiful evocative spot for a wedding. In less enlightened times - when weddings were the lone preserve of the church and railways were closed with nary a thought for social consequences - I don't suppose anyone stood in that exact spot and felt those emotions, Jamie - you should've bottled them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastleton P.Way Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Middleton overlooks the curving climb of Borthwick bank up towards Falahill; a beautiful evocative spot for a wedding. In less enlightened times - when weddings were the lone preserve of the church and railways were closed with nary a thought for social consequences - I don't suppose anyone stood in that exact spot and felt those emotions, Jamie - you should've bottled them! In my own humble opinion, the sight and sound of a loco (steam or diesel) work a heavy train uphill is something best enjoyed from a vantage point other than the train itself. The recently posted video clip of the two black fives battling up to Ais Gill is a case in point. Another example from my formative years is being stood at the summit of The Cobbler above Arrochar on a still day, and listening to the rasp of a BRCW Sulzer reverberating around the moutains as it battled up Glen Douglas. The descent from a summit is best enjoyed from the train itself: with that powerful feeling of speed and sheer momentum of a heavy express train, bucking and swaying through curves and flashing through bridges or stations, ideally with your head half out a droplight. All the better if it's a late runner, with the driver letting it go to perhaps claw back a few minute's deficit, or at night so the usual reference points are lost and it just becomes a headlong rush into oblivion. I can feel the adrenaline now! I fear Borthwick won't be properly enjoyed until we're all stood at a carefully selected vantage point to witness the first southbound charter (how about a Brit with ten on?), followed by a spin down the A7 to Gala to climb aboard the return working. A 158 is sacrilege on such a line! Similarly, let us implore the WRHA to seek a higher linespeed when it breaks out from its current confines and heads for Riccarton. Descending from Whitrope at the heritage "norm" of 25mph will be like downhill skiing while dragging a ship's anchor behind you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted April 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2012 Middleton overlooks the curving climb of Borthwick bank up towards Falahill; a beautiful evocative spot for a wedding. In less enlightened times - when weddings were the lone preserve of the church and railways were closed with nary a thought for social consequences - I don't suppose anyone stood in that exact spot and felt those emotions, Jamie - you should've bottled them! Yes for various reasons I was on my own as my wife was in hospital and by that time my son had found some young lady to talk to so I wandered out onto the steps of the castle and saw the curve of the embankment describing a near horseshoe round the setting. As you say I should have been able to somehow preserve the scene. I was privileged to be able to view two miles of the Long Drag from the rear windows of the house that I grew up in and often watched heavy freights slogging up through Settle till I lost sight of them at Langcliffe. Night time was always special with the intermittent glow from the firehole as the fireman did his work. Later in the night if I was awake the Brit screaming south on the sleeper was a highlight. There is a certain something about trains in the night. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 SaltireStar waits time on the southernmost present extremity of the Waverley Route: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=38338 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fegguk Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Some insite into to how they the new line will be built CILT website The Borders Railway by Colin MacDonald, Network Rail: Meeting of 12 April 2012. http://www.ciltscotland.com/mr120412.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 That's a good spot. Good to see ScotRail's comms supremo John Yellowlees is picking up the pace. Single track over the viaducts comes as little surprise, passive provision for 25kV is to be expected, and the four trains hourly option to Gorebridge is righting a massive wrong. Reassuring to see that the vast majority of structures will be refreshed for a second career - this is hugely exciting. On the other side of the coin, of course, this does signal that the days of certain northern relics are now limited. The remains at Heriot and Fountainhall will no doubt be airbrushed away by the encroaching yellow machines, so for those and some of the lesser structures that will no doubt be consigned to the history books for good, it's now or never to make those visits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fegguk Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 "will no doubt be airbrushed away by the encroaching yellow machines" If they have to demolish the whole of Gala (or should it be the rest of Gala) to build the raillway nearer to Hawick few Teri's will notice or care Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted April 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 14, 2012 Hi all, As per prev comments... The Waverley Route - As it is (nearly) http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n100/Scottish-Modeller/The%20Waverley%20Route%20-%20A%20new%20beginning/ Thanks Phil H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 and the four trains hourly option to Gorebridge is righting a massive wrong. It's only "passive provision" that is mentioned. As far as I can see it would be impossible to run four trains an hour to Gorebridge with the infrastructure as proposed - the only double track between Newcraighall and Gorebridge will be from north of Shawfair to Sheriffhall, but to run a 15 minute frequency service will require one additional loop (continuous double track would be better of course) and possibly a siding at Gorebridge. The passive provision mentioned will presumably be allowance for easy doubling in the future. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 The passive provision mentioned will presumably be allowance for easy doubling in the future. Correct. It will all be in the trackbed. Structures, comms and service routes, and drainage, and possibly even the sub-ballast membrane will no doubt be specified in such a way that they are futureproofed against track geometry changes and add-ons. A personal and peripheral wish is that security is appropriate and fit for purpose. I don't want to see palisade fencing on the rural sections, for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted April 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2012 It's only "passive provision" that is mentioned. As far as I can see it would be impossible to run four trains an hour to Gorebridge with the infrastructure as proposed - the only double track between Newcraighall and Gorebridge will be from north of Shawfair to Sheriffhall, but to run a 15 minute frequency service will require one additional loop (continuous double track would be better of course) and possibly a siding at Gorebridge. The passive provision mentioned will presumably be allowance for easy doubling in the future. Bill HI Bill, I thought we were supposed to be getting a 'Turnback Siding' at Gorebridge anyway? Certainly it appears that the clearance of ground at the expected location allows for this. At that point they have cleared back almost 3 trackwidths. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Perhaps we're having that fascinating and quirky curly pig's-tail siding put back in, opposite the up platform Does anyone know the plan for bridging the A7 at Shank, Arniston? Presumably a steel and concrete span; parts of this line will look reminiscent of the beautiful midi-Pyrenees network, which is no less than it deserves! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 HI Bill, I thought we were supposed to be getting a 'Turnback Siding' at Gorebridge anyway? Certainly it appears that the clearance of ground at the expected location allows for this. At that point they have cleared back almost 3 trackwidths. Thanks Yes, I had thought that as well but David Spaven was at the CILT talk and says that there is now no provision for it. Bill PS After further consideration, I've come to the conclusion that a 15 minute interval service could be operated to Gorebridge without a turnback siding there. Incoming short workings from Edinburgh would simply be turned around in the platform - timings would be tight but not appreciably worse than they will be at Tweedbank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Does anyone know the plan for bridging the A7 at Shank, Arniston? Presumably a steel and concrete span; parts of this line will look reminiscent of the beautiful midi-Pyrenees network, which is no less than it deserves! Outline designs were prepared by Transport Scotland's consultant for all the structures, as far as I know, but I'm not aware that these were ever put into the public domain. There's no guarantee of course that BAM's designers will necessarily come up with the same solutions for the detailed designs. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted April 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2012 Outline designs were prepared by Transport Scotland's consultant for all the structures, as far as I know, but I'm not aware that these were ever put into the public domain. There's no guarantee of course that BAM's designers will necessarily come up with the same solutions for the detailed designs. Bill Hi All, There were some bridge drawings on display at the Midlothian Council Roadshow telling people about the Proposed reopening of the Waverley Route. I'll have to see if I can find out more! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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