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3d Printed 501?


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Hi Folks,

 

This project has been so far on the back burner that I had forgotten all about it. As a first project in Sketchup, I think I had bitten off rather too much, and the artwork (as far as I had got with it) has long since been deleted.

 

Having had the experience I have had now with Sketchup and Shapeways, I doubt now whether I would try to produce a one piece body. The costs for printing coaches are quite out of proportion compared to the cost for locos, although I know it doesn't cost me anything other than time to upload them to the site.

 

I am tempted to look into printing driving ends and bogie sides for a 501, which could be used with Bachmann suburbans, much in the way that XF did his conversions back in the early 2000s, but as I have so little time for design work at the moment, this might be something of a pipe dream!!

 

All the best,

Charlie

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Hi Folks,

 

This project has been so far on the back burner that I had forgotten all about it. As a first project in Sketchup, I think I had bitten off rather too much, and the artwork (as far as I had got with it) has long since been deleted.

 

Having had the experience I have had now with Sketchup and Shapeways, I doubt now whether I would try to produce a one piece body. The costs for printing coaches are quite out of proportion compared to the cost for locos, although I know it doesn't cost me anything other than time to upload them to the site.

 

I am tempted to look into printing driving ends and bogie sides for a 501, which could be used with Bachmann suburbans, much in the way that XF did his conversions back in the early 2000s, but as I have so little time for design work at the moment, this might be something of a pipe dream!!

 

All the best,

Charlie

I've got a few tips and tricks to help reduce your workload. I'll PM you in you're interested?

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There is no difficulty in producing coach body in one piece, as I have now done for several coach type models. I always work with roof attached and having to fit chassis. Most models are looked on from above, so that is most important visually.

The problem with mixing 3D printed ends with r2r or kit , is that surface is different and very difficult to get looking the same.

 

 

I have been cross checking between my LMS coach book(used to do the GEC stock), and my SR EMU book. The 501 was basically a shortened version of the southern EMU,both based on the BR Mk1 suburban coach(all 3rd or should be 2nd class then). The standard LMS 57ft all 3rd  suburban coach has 9 compartments, and proportion wise is same as the BR mk1. The BR Mk1 is 1/2inch  wider(not noticable in models), the windows are very similar, so design can be easily modified from the LMS coach. It should not take long to do the non driving coach, and probably not much longer to do the driving coaches. Body wise I think both the motored and trailer driver coaches are the same, both with guards/luggage compartments. Given that so many of the BR EMUs , and probably suburban DMU s are based on this same body shell, it make sense for me to do a design, initially for the intermediate coach. I will need them eventually for my own HO models.

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I've got a few tips and tricks to help reduce your workload. I'll PM you in you're interested?

Thanks MGR. Alas, my time problem has less to do with Sketchup, or any model design work, but has everything to do with thee three Methodist churches which I serve as minister.

 

I do manage to get a few bits done on my days off but I have been concentrating on the steam loco kit range, with the NLR passenger tanks top priority at the moment. This has relegated the 501, along with the Oerlikon, Siemens and GEC stock to the card kit range for the time being.

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here is my version initially for HO

cl501-driver-coach.jpg

cl501-middle-coach.jpg

I needed them to complete the Croxley Green/Watford trio.

One of the advantages of going for a medium cost commercial fully licensed 3D CAD package, especially as I find there are so many common features in coach design, I can use one to develop the next.

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here is my version initially for HO

cl501-driver-coach.jpg

cl501-middle-coach.jpg

I needed them to complete the Croxley Green/Watford trio.

One of the advantages of going for a medium cost commercial fully licensed 3D CAD package, especially as I find there are so many common features in coach design, I can use one to develop the next.

looking good

 

but just to let you know. The 501s only had periscopes looking forward, a single periscope in each brakevan and you might want to check on the number of roof vents, also the 501s had no rain strip water just flowed in to guttering.

 

Andrew Humphries

501 Restoration project

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That's another error on the BR diagram book. Had not thought about the rainstrip, assumed it was standard , but easy to remove. As the 501 is based on the EPB, I based roof vent positions on that. It was a quick test design, just to see if it was easy to do, based on my other designs. Will need to look at some overhead photos. Big advantage of 3D printing is that changes can be made at any time. With roof detail, it is also easy to remove or add if required.

 

Finding overhead photos not easy.Watford High St a good vantge point.Think I have worked out the roof vents, assuming both driver units the same, but none of the phoos show a periscope. As I said It is on the BR working diagrams, infact with one both ways.

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That's another error on the BR diagram book. Had not thought about the rainstrip, assumed it was standard , but easy to remove. As the 501 is based on the EPB, I based roof vent positions on that. It was a quick test design, just to see if it was easy to do, based on my other designs. Will need to look at some overhead photos. Big advantage of 3D printing is that changes can be made at any time. With roof detail, it is also easy to remove or add if required.

 

Finding overhead photos not easy.Watford High St a good vantge point.Think I have worked out the roof vents, assuming both driver units the same, but none of the phoos show a periscope. As I said It is on the BR working diagrams, infact with one both ways.

The periscopes were removed during the early 70s, but they were in inline with the rear wall of the guards area (this is 360mm from the first passenger compartment door).

 

The gutters run the length of the train and curve ends, the units also have large metal step boards above the buffers with the inner end ones being much larger. 

 

As for the vents they were in 2 lines, starting at the cab, 2 above the cab 1 each side, 1 on the right side of the guards area then above the centre of each compartment starting on the left hand side and alternating every compartment.

 

also of note the guards door closest to the cab opens inwards so the door is not so long and leaves a gap.

 

If you need them I have lots of detailed pictures of both DT and DMBSO but sadly the TS escaped us.

 

Andrew Humphries

501 Restoration project

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thanks, that does explain it.Were they originally fitted with two periscopes, as that is what is on the official BR working drawing.  I suspect there are a few details which changed over the years,one reason I leave some off, or make them easy to remove. I will have to check on photos as I will probably want an early one to run with my older stock.

 I found photos showng the vents, just got to adjust spacing across the roof, as it is different to the SR ones, and remove the unwanted ones. I did travel on them regularly for about a year or 2, but only a short distance from Edware Rd to Euston(sometimes via Primrose Hill), but never looked at the details on the coaches. Just wish I had explored more of the now closed lines in London, only doing Broad Street to West Hampstead once.

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The 501s only ever had 1 periscope each end facing inwards, this was due to them having a guards area at each end, with the guard sitting at the back of the train.

 

Andrew Humphries

501 Restoration Project  

 

 

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Hi Simon

 

The BR standard Mk1 coaches had a continuous curve to their sides, unlike the LMS that were flat from the roof to the start of the tumbleholm. The windows were also different sizes and not the same height. For BR diagrams see http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html

Click on the EMU diagram book. The North London diagrams are DTSB, 410, MBS 403, TS 470 and TSO 478.

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I used the diagrams in the BR books, and found some errors. Yes there are differences, and where those are actually visible they are done, but in smaller scales some differences are not visible. On the whole, the difference between a gentle curve and one which is partly straight, is virtually zero with 3D printing. By the time you have rubbed it down to a smooth surface, then it is even less different. I wonder how many actual kit/scratch built models are dead accurate with respect to the curved sides.

 

What I did notice, and possibly this is why I said the BR design evolved from the LMS design, was compartment length. The southern coaches were a different length, although there are some similarities, but the standard LMS all third was 57ft long, and had same number of compartments.

 

I do need to try out an idea to fit the safety bars.

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Hi Simon

 

The Mk 1 profile is very different to that of the LMS coaches. Extremely noticeable in 4mm, even 2mm. If the profile is not correct then the appearance of the cabs will be altered and having the correct cab "face" which can make or brake a model. I know that from scratch building diesels for the past 30 years.

 

If you get it right now then should you move on to the various LMR, ER and SR Mk1 based suburban units then I think you will be on a winner.

 

As for suburban DMUs the LMS profile is great for classes 115, 116, 117, 118, 121, 122, 125 and 127.

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The difference in the actual curve and a staight line is about 0.1mm in 4mm scale, which is not noticable in  3D printed model. What is more noticable is the bottom edge, and I think I have sorted that now.

cl501-driver-coach2.jpgcl501-middle-coach2.jpg

I have also added the window bars, which might be a bit thick, but can be thinned down carefully. They are near to the minimum for printing already.

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The difference in the actual curve and a staight line is about 0.1mm in 4mm scale, which is not noticable in  3D printed model. What is more noticable is the bottom edge, and I think I have sorted that now.

cl501-driver-coach2.jpgcl501-middle-coach2.jpg

I have also added the window bars, which might be a bit thick, but can be thinned down carefully. They are near to the minimum for printing already.

 

They are looking very nice, the first door in to the guards area is still not right, the door opens inwards, so does not meet the bottom of the coach, see attached picture

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/81435-75186-001/

81435-75186-001

 

also of note is there is an indented panel on the front of the unit on the unit it is only an inch deep, it was recessed to house one of the main control cables and there should be a red light in the bottom centre (or are you adding this later).

 

Andrew Humphries

501 Restoration project

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one reason why I am not rushing, is that there are still a few things to fix on it. In some ways these BR units are more complex than older models. I am not aimng at a perfect model, but one that looks right, and if necessary can be modified easily. I leave it up to the modeller to add most of the fiddly detail. Easier for me, and leaves something for the modeller to do, and feel they have actually built something.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Got back to the 501. It is always worth while putting something to one side and coming back. it did'nt look too bad. Modified the base to guards doors(not obvious really), and removed the window bars from the design(I wasn't happy that they would come out OK), It should be possible to add bars using thin wire.

cl501-driver-coach2a.jpg

 

cl501-middle-coach2a.jpg

This is initially in HO, but plan to up it to OO scale, and down to TT scale, possibly N scale.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 7 months later...

 It should be possible to add bars using thin wire.

 

If it's possible, it would be helpful to have some sort of small indent in the print to make alignment of the bars easier. Looking forward to the 4mm version....

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I doubt if anindentation would show up on 3D printed model, certainly not WSF. All versions including 4mm/ft are on my website available. Having said that, I am in process of resizing all designs up to O and G1, so will look at window bars then.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just had someone ask for an N gauge version, which I managed to do is a couple of hours. For N gauge I am offering finer versions using finer plastic, as cost is not that much more,and probably worthit fot this type of unit. You will have to add the window bars yourself!

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