92220 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Morning all, Thought I'd post this as I've been researching for a little while and now I've finally worked out a method, these are quite easy to put together. Obviously, I am not making a claim that this is the most perfect scale model. I have made some assumptions from limited info in places, and I am making do with (a) some components with limitations and (b ) not much experience. I know that it would be possible to do a better job in many ways, but if I can get a decent approximation of 8 of these for a total of less that £40, I hope it will have been worth it. Prototype info: Redundant coach underframes rebuilt as car transporters. Early conversions were Bocars, Later conversions were "Carflat" (144 of them, with longitudinal channels for wheels) and then "Carflat A" (>1000 of them, with planked deck, side frames and spiked wheel chocks. Eventually BR Mk1s were cannibalised in this way but I am looking at 1962 so pre-nationalisation stock. These batches (lots 3305, 3312, 3320 and 3321) were built 1959-60. All this from Materials: Hornby 57ft LMS underframe spares Bachmann LMS bogie spares (both picked up from ebay) Bolts, nuts and washers from Homebase (found in the garage) 6p (found down the back of the sofa) 20 thou plasticard 1.5mm L section stryrene strip 0.7mm brass rod 2mm planking plasticard (planks were 7" not 6" so this is one of several approximations....) Here we go: Cheap spare 57' underframe: Remove battery box etc. Ballast. 6 new pence (enough along with nuts, bolts and washers) Bolt cut to length, stuck with epoxy and washer attached 1 sheet 20 thou plasticard stuck to underframe with plastic weld. Holes drilled hopefully to prevent warping Planking sheet stuck over the top of the plain sheet. Edges were scribed to give the appearance of the ends of the planks: Side rails made on a card former/jig (I've got 8 to make....). L section strip drilled with brass rod then threaded through. Fixed with cyano. These styrene strips are cut too large and then trimmed to length once set as it would be impossible to drill the holes at the very end. I thought about adding the rail into a notch cut into the top of the strip but it was fairly random. Closer detail: Trimming the uprights: Detail showing one side fitted and the other with as yet untrimmed uprights: Bogies fitted, uprights trimmed to correct slanted profile on bottom half: Now just have the folding ends, bits of detailing plus paint, transfers and some weathering to complete . Any thoughts welcome. As I said, it's not perfect by any means but I am learning. Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Thank you, thank you, thank you Iain! I've been trying to get my head round how to produce some of these myself for a good while and with my new Waverley Route project the necessity has become overwhelming. I truly do appreciate your posting the process of producing this vehicle which will make life a lot easier for myself and certainly one other on here...! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Eh????? That's two in one night! I'm sure I saw Rob '37114' Owst post something similar not an hour ago... Fantastic!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Dave, More than happy to have been any help at all! It's a rare occurrence...... Hopefully I'll complete this one OK and then build the others as a run. I can pass on what I've learned from trying. 'Chard, I started this post this morning and didn't complete it until just now - couldn't believe what I saw on the Active Content 3 lines down. Time for the old London bus joke I'm sure..... Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Excellent work- this has been one of myroundtuits for a while now-and you've done all the thinking for me , fortunately I'm going to get away with one, though I'll still make a jig, Thank you, Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Excellent work- this has been one of myroundtuits for a while now-and you've done all the thinking for me , fortunately I'm going to get away with one, though I'll still make a jig, Thank you, Richard Hi Richard Thanks - glad it is of some help. Let me know if I can offer any further assistance. Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagrizz Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Iain, Thank you very much for posting this info. I tried to get more details of diag 1/094 last year (there was a post on RMWeb) but very little was forthcoming. I have yet to see a photo of a 1/094 carflat - did you track any down? My main interest is in the Linwood Rootes trains that ran from 1963 and I decided to base my models on a diag 1/088 photo in the 1985 OPC Larkin, Bartlett et al book. Accordingly, I bought some old Airfix ex-LMS coaches (both 57ft and 60ft) and Bachmann LMS bogies. Shortly after starting, I then found out that the Rootes trains used diag 1/089 carflats based on ex-LNER 60ft underframes. Doh! I'd committed too much by then so I'm not turning back now. I've done two 60ft examples so far, rather crude efforts compared to yours' and 37114s' models. I too used plasticard for building these but the rail is 0.45mm plastic covered wire. Some details are missing, notably the brake mechanisms, and the thought of trying to recreate the lettering with transfers scared me. How do you plan to do it? I've noted the comments on the scarcity and expense of buying the 1985 OPC book. I ordered a copy from my local library (£3.50 I think) and they tracked one down for me to borrow - it came from Selly Oak library IIRC. Regards Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hi Iain, Good to see the progress with yours, I am in the process of making the supports for the ramp when flat, another Jig called for I think! Really like how you have done the side rails. I am also going to make a jig for the wheel chocks, there appear to be 20 or so per wagon! Re the transfers I appear to have some in my stash, I recently brought aload second hand and enough to last me until I shuffle off this mortal coil, which include the TOPS lettering (FVV etc). The Motorail board on mine will come from the Print outs in Rail Express (Issue 97) so no probs there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Graham, Thanks. You do yourself a disservice - its far from crude! I got most of my info from a library copy of the OPC book like you, but also got a copy of "BR Vehicle Diagrams 2". There are about 7 different drawings and I did make some educated guesses from limited info and I found just tonight when I reread some stuff that I might well have got one of those guesses quite wrong. I'll try to rectify it when I get round to the next stage but it won't be until Sunday at the earliest now. I have some Modelmaster carflat decals (sheet 4661) which will need some careful cutting and splicing, but some of that will be guesswork unless I can find some more photos of earlier markings. Lettering these from the early 70's onwards is relatively easy, thanks to Paul Bartlett's excellent site and others. Early 60's not so! Anyway, thanks for the kind words and I will post further progress when I make some..... Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hi Iain, Good to see the progress with yours, I am in the process of making the supports for the ramp when flat, another Jig called for I think! Really like how you have done the side rails. I am also going to make a jig for the wheel chocks, there appear to be 20 or so per wagon! Re the transfers I appear to have some in my stash, I recently brought aload second hand and enough to last me until I shuffle off this mortal coil, which include the TOPS lettering (FVV etc). The Motorail board on mine will come from the Print outs in Rail Express (Issue 97) so no probs there. Hi Rob, Thanks - likewise with yours. I've been thinking of trying to do the ramp supports that rest on the buffer shanks out of fret waste. Are you going to use plastic still? I doubted my skills to be honest! Will be interested to see how you do your wheel chocks too. I've got pretty sketchy details of those. Are your transfers the Modelmaster ones too? Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Hi Iain, As you suggest I will be using waste etched brass fret for the supports. I have a DVD with a compilation of Rail related British Transport films, including one on Motorail, and a couple of shots show the chocks quite clearly, I initially though they were wooden blocks, but the DVDs shows them fabricated, and they have a curved insert to match the profile of the tyre. TBH when I saw it I have to admit I groaned at the thought of making an accurate version (or 60 or so of them) so will probably simplify. I will have a bash at the weekend at making some and see what they look like, then post some pics. Re the transfers I am not sure on the make, they were in a huge bag and appear to the rub on type as opposed to Waterslides Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 this is a brilliant thread, thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Thanks Michael. I hope to complete a few one day but this first one warped and I've not had another go yet. A less aggressive solvent would have been a good start..... I think the method would work in principle. If you're looking at 1963 I think, without checking, that mk1 under frames were not yet being used for car flats. I'll check.... Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 maybe glue it in one direction and take time, ie glue one end about a 1/4, let it dry, then the next 1/4 etc. my carflats are for the Morris-Cowley trains discussed in this thread, maybe ex GWR? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68623-morris-cowley-car-trains/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 The oracle would appear to be "An illustrated history of BR wagons vol 1" (Bartlett, Larkin, Mann, Silsbury and Ward) pages 78 to 86. There were 112 diag 1/093 ex GWR carflats built at Swindon in 1959. The pictures you have in the thread seem to show carflat A with the side rails rather than carflats though, so if they were ex GWR, I'd take an educated guess at the only batch of this type built before 1966 - diag 1/095 (68 built 1960, B748589 to B748656, 59'2" to 60'0" with bogie wheelbase of 7'0" - not sure which GWR vehicles these would have come from but I'm sure some will know without even consulting a book!) From what I can gather the superstructure of these would be similar to the 1/094 ex LMS vehicles I outlined earlier. Hope that helps, Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I had problems with warping on a couple of bogie flats of various types, largely due to solvent build-up between floor and chassis. One way of reducing the chances of it happening would be to drill 1-2mm holes in the chassis, especially in any area where there is a void (around the recess for the ballast weight, for example). Then, when you fix floor to chassis, put the vehicle upside-down on a flat surface, and hold it down with some weights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 if warping is such a problem I would probably make the middle sandwich piece as a ladder style with large open gaps. or cut out the centre altogether. Ian, GWR was just a guess on my part because of the area they worked from, Oxford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 I did drill some holes but either not enough of them, or in the wrong places. In retrospect, the other thing I did catastrophically badly was to apply the solvent unevenly. If I've read up correctly I think Mek or Limonene would have been better for laminating bigger areas? I was a complete novice then and not much better now. Anyway, I'm sure the basic method would work if better executed! Michael - loads of very cheap 57' under frames knocking about and I would guess the conversions weren't restricted to region afterwards anyway. I'm no coach expert but at least some of those in the pics look like they have LMS bogies and trusses? Do keep us updated as to how you progress with it. I have very much enjoyed the thread on the Cowley trains (and the parcels one too). Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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