Any Question Answered

[Chris Higgs]

As sold, the chassis assembly jigs (3-270) have central sections which are 6.4mm wide (matching the pcb spacer strip sold in the shop). The dimensions in the yearbook suggest that this dimension works well with 0.7mm thick frames. If you use etched frames (typically 0.25mm thick) you will end-up with a thinner than normal frame assembly ...

 

Not necessarily. If as most etches are designed they use axle bearings and these bearings have the bosses on the inside of the frames, you will actually end up with frames too far apart. Bob's design is different as he expects the jig to be used on holes in extensions to the frames, which do not have axle bearings in them, and so the boxes are 7mm wide. to match the wider PCB spacer strip also sold in the shop.

 

A lot of modellers end up making new custom central spacers to suit whatever design combinaton is their choice.

 

Chris

[2mm Andy]

Not necessarily. If as most etches are designed they use axle bearings and these bearings have the bosses on the inside of the frames, you will actually end up with frames too far apart. Bob's design is different as he expects the jig to be used on holes in extensions to the frames, which do not have axle bearings in them, and so the boxes are 7mm wide. to match the wider PCB spacer strip also sold in the shop.

 

A lot of modellers end up making new custom central spacers to suit whatever design combinaton is their choice.

 

Chris

 

Except that the ends of the centre spacers of the jig are countersunk so that they clear the bosses on the frame bushes, so you will end-up with narrow frames if using the jig as supplied with etched frames (which was my original point). The design of the jig has changed over the years, so other versions might not be the same.

 

I agree that making new centre spacers to suit the specific kit is a good idea.

 

Andy

[garethashenden]

Is there a separate etch for claps brakes available or are claps brakes included in any of the w-iron etches? Preferably for 6mm wheels...

[richbrummitt]

Except that the ends of the centre spacers of the jig are countersunk so that they clear the bosses on the frame bushes, so you will end-up with narrow frames if using the jig as supplied with etched frames (which was my original point). The design of the jig has changed over the years, so other versions might not be the same.

 

I agree that making new centre spacers to suit the specific kit is a good idea.

 

Andy

 

Has the design changed in the last 9 years? It sounds like they probably haven't. The centres on the jigs I bought around that long ago are countersunk and when used to assemble a chassis with bushes you cannot remove the jig centre pieces because this feature traps them firmly between the freshly soldered frames. (No prizes for guessing that I found this out the hard way.) I did exactly as someone suggested earlier and had a second set of middles made by a friendly turner. Including a second set of spacers, or offering an alternate product with narrower (flat ended) centres seems necessary for members new to loco construction.  

[richbrummitt]

Is there a separate etch for claps brakes available or are claps brakes included in any of the w-iron etches? Preferably for 6mm wheels...

 

NTIKO. Various underframe etches include them: Product 2-361 and anything describe as 8 shoe will have clasp brake shoe parts. In the case of the 9' DC u/f you can steal the clasp brake parts and still get a complete u/f for a GW vehicle that doesn't require clasp brakes - and that's most of them - out of what is left.

[garethashenden]

NTIKO. Various underframe etches include them: Product 2-361 and anything describe as 8 shoe will have clasp brake shoe parts. In the case of the 9' DC u/f you can steal the clasp brake parts and still get a complete u/f for a GW vehicle that doesn't require clasp brakes - and that's most of them - out of what is left.

Thanks Richard. I know that 2-315 includes brakes but as its for 7mm wheels I don't think it will work. I'll get the gwr underframe.

[2mm Andy]

Has the design changed in the last 9 years? It sounds like they probably haven't. The centres on the jigs I bought around that long ago are countersunk and when used to assemble a chassis with bushes you cannot remove the jig centre pieces because this feature traps them firmly between the freshly soldered frames. (No prizes for guessing that I found this out the hard way.) I did exactly as someone suggested earlier and had a second set of middles made by a friendly turner. Including a second set of spacers, or offering an alternate product with narrower (flat ended) centres seems necessary for members new to loco construction.  

I have seen other versions of the jig where the spindles aren't threaded and the outer pieces are held in place with screws (like the photo in the product listings on the 2mm website).

 

Before I left the committee I did start asking around to find out who produced the jigs, with a view to possibly getting different spacers made for the various designs of kit out there.

 

Andy

[D869]

I recently bought a PRA China clay wagon body from shapeways and was wondering if anyone could tell me which chassis would be the most appropriate. I've had a look through the chassis in the association shop but I can't see a good match. Anyone have any ideas on which would be the most fitting?

 

Hi Jez,

 

I don't think there is anything particularly close to what you need from the Association shop, so you may be in for some scratchbuilding. You can get standalone 'W' iron etches (2-313) for the critical bits - just make sure that you have a nice flat floor and that you get the axles parallel. That still leaves you with the brakegear to find. I've done clasp shoes in the past by cannibalising other etches. It just depends how much left over junk you have lying around.

 

Another option might be to pick an etch for a clasp shoed chassis, chop it in the middle and stretch it. The BR 9 or 10 foot might be suitable donors.

 

There are also standalone roller bearing axleboxes available in whitemetal or fold-up etches. I don't know of much readily available for the UIC link suspension at the ends of the springs though.

 

One other possibility might be to phone Stephen Harris and ask him whether he can supply an etch for his 45T monobloc oil tank chassis. This has the UIC links (with a choice of hanger styles), clasp brakes and probably a good few other usable bits, but the etch is not a complete chassis because the solebars on this kit are part of the resin body casting. I don't know how well the wheelbase etc will match - you'll need to find out the major dimensions of the PRA.

 

Sorry I don't know an easy answer. Hope this helps.

 

Regards, Andy

[cornish trains jez]

Hi Jez,

 

I don't think there is anything particularly close to what you need from the Association shop, so you may be in for some scratchbuilding. You can get standalone 'W' iron etches (2-313) for the critical bits - just make sure that you have a nice flat floor and that you get the axles parallel. That still leaves you with the brakegear to find. I've done clasp shoes in the past by cannibalising other etches. It just depends how much left over junk you have lying around.

 

Another option might be to pick an etch for a clasp shoed chassis, chop it in the middle and stretch it. The BR 9 or 10 foot might be suitable donors.

 

There are also standalone roller bearing axleboxes available in whitemetal or fold-up etches. I don't know of much readily available for the UIC link suspension at the ends of the springs though.

 

One other possibility might be to phone Stephen Harris and ask him whether he can supply an etch for his 45T monobloc oil tank chassis. This has the UIC links (with a choice of hanger styles), clasp brakes and probably a good few other usable bits, but the etch is not a complete chassis because the solebars on this kit are part of the resin body casting. I don't know how well the wheelbase etc will match - you'll need to find out the major dimensions of the PRA.

 

Sorry I don't know an easy answer. Hope this helps.

 

Regards, Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Many thanks for your help. I was thinking that I may have to scratch build something. I hoping to have 4 of these wagons so I could do a test run on the first one and then run a sort of production line on the other three once I'm happy with the first chassis.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[Rhys]

Can't remember if I have asked this before, so I appologise in advance.

Can anyone tell me the spacings between the axles on the 14xx chassis kit. I'm pondering using one for another project.

Also, is there a source for separate 6 wheel tender underframe etches?

[garethashenden]

Can't remember if I have asked this before, so I appologise in advance.

Can anyone tell me the spacings between the axles on the 14xx chassis kit. I'm pondering using one for another project.

Also, is there a source for separate 6 wheel tender underframe etches?

N Brass do a tender etch. Axle spacings are either 12 and 12mm or 12 and 13mm.

[StuartM]

Do the 2mm conversion kits come with everything need to convert the locos, inc wheels?

 

3-680   Class 03 diesel shunter (Farish)  £15.00 each   3-681   Class 08 diesel shunter (Farish)  £20.00 each   3-700   Jinty conversion kit to convert Graham Farish Jinty to 2FS 

[Nigelcliffe]

Do the 2mm conversion kits come with everything need to convert the locos, inc wheels?

 

3-680   Class 03 diesel shunter (Farish)  £15.00 each   3-681   Class 08 diesel shunter (Farish)  £20.00 each   3-700   Jinty conversion kit to convert Graham Farish Jinty to 2FS

No. Wheels are extra (driving wheels cost £7 per axle, which should be a clue!),

 

In general, the parts are just the etched sheet of metal. You have to add wheels, bearings, gears and other mechanical parts. This is described in the instructions (and there is a link to the instructions from the sub-title above the kits)

3-700 is a bit different, as it contains special bearings, muffs, gears. You still need to add wheels and crankpins.

 

It does suggest that some changes to the way the shop list is presented may be needed to make things clearer. I've added another sub-heading and the sales officer and I can discuss whether further information could be provided in the shop list in due course.

 

 

- Nigel

[Rabs]

Perhaps a 'complete this kit' button in the shop which adds the right ancillary bits you need to go with the chosen chassis?

Probably easy to suggest but rather harder to implement! 

Edited October 30, 2014 by Rabs

[StuartM]

Perhaps a complete kit would be a better idea.

Then at least the total price is known from the start and novices like myself wouldn't miss buying a vital part, although at £7 and axle plus gears and muffs and then motor etc, the complete chassis cost is going to be somewhere near the cost of the grafar donor

It's a shame the association can't sell completed chassis, I understand that some people enjoy building locos but it all seems to daunting to me, I'd rather spend £75 on a ready built chassis I know is going to work.

[MarkAustin]

Perhaps a 'complete this kit' button in the shop which adds the right ancillary bits you need to go with the chosen chassis?

Probably easy to suggest but rather harder to implement! 

There's a list in the instructions. Two parts. First a list of the common parts needed by all kites, then a table giving the special needs of each kit plus a suggested alternative motor. can't see anything else is necessary, although a "required components" a la wagon kits would be nice.

 

Mark A

[Chris Higgs]

Perhaps a complete kit would be a better idea.

Then at least the total price is known from the start and novices like myself wouldn't miss buying a vital part, although at £7 and axle plus gears and muffs and then motor etc, the complete chassis cost is going to be somewhere near the cost of the grafar donor

It's a shame the association can't sell completed chassis, I understand that some people enjoy building locos but it all seems to daunting to me, I'd rather spend £75 on a ready built chassis I know is going to work.

 

Sadly, you would have to add another digit at the front of the price (not sure which one!) to get a built chassis. The bits alone are going to be more than the Grafar version, especially if you go for a top-of-the-range motor.

 

There are a few people about who probably would build a chassis for you, at a price.

 

Chris

[cornish trains jez]

Hi,

 

I'm just considering the return curves from my scenic section to the fiddle yard at the back of the layout and was wondering what the minimum radius would be in 2mmFS?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Jeremy

[2mmMark]

600mm is generally considered the acceptable minimum for most main line stock. It's what's used on Copenhagen Fields in the fiddle yards.  You can go tighter but you might have to accept some limitations on what you run. Issues such as bogie/pony truck swing on steam locos become a problem for scale size wheels.

 

Lay out the curves carefully. An accidental tightening of the radius may not look much of a problem but it can result in a tight radius at that spot.

 

Mark

[Donw]

Will they be in the open or hidden under scenery. If  hidden I would not go so tight. The next ting is what you expect to run. On a branchline smaller curve should be acceptable.  Generally 2ft (600mm) is considered ok. I would suggest 20 in 500mm as a minimum with the proviso that some extra spacing of say loco and tender coupling would be needed and things like that. If you could increase the curve to 700mm or more there would be less drag on the trains and locos could haul more.

Don

[cornish trains jez]

Cheers guys for the advice! The curves to the fiddle yard will be hidden. I think I will go with the 600mm as the minimum then as I will be running diesels only, however the rolling stock will be close coupled as much as possible so I'll have to experiment with the rolling stock to suit the curves. I'm hoping to have a nice close coupled HST rake so I'll need to be sure this works around the curves.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[Curlew]

HSTs don't have buffers between the coaches. It will be prototypically close coupled stock with buffers that are most affected by tight curves

Edited November 4, 2014 by Curlew

[Branwell]

I've just finished quartering my first chassis and have got to the stage where I'm ready to fix the coupling rods to the crankpins, but I'm not sure how tight up against the wheels the crankpin washers should be - I was going to put a piece of paper between the washer and the coupling rod to try and stop locking everything up solid when I solder the washer to the crankpin, but otherwise how much play should there be between the washers and the coupling rod?

 

Thanks for your time.

 

David V.

[queensquare]

I've just finished quartering my first chassis and have got to the stage where I'm ready to fix the coupling rods to the crankpins, but I'm not sure how tight up against the wheels the crankpin washers should be - I was going to put a piece of paper between the washer and the coupling rod to try and stop locking everything up solid when I solder the washer to the crankpin, but otherwise how much play should there be between the washers and the coupling rod?

 

Thanks for your time.

 

David V.

 

The thickness of a piece of paper is a pretty good working clearance.

 

Jerry

[MarkAustin]

600mm is generally considered the acceptable minimum for most main line stock. It's what's used on Copenhagen Fields in the fiddle yards.  You can go tighter but you might have to accept some limitations on what you run. Issues such as bogie/pony truck swing on steam locos become a problem for scale size wheels.

 

Lay out the curves carefully. An accidental tightening of the radius may not look much of a problem but it can result in a tight radius at that spot.

 

Mark

I'd second Mark's point. Two tips. Use a curved template to lay the track, in particular for the (by 2mm standards) sharp 2ft curves. This doesn't have to be anything elaborate, just a 1mm ply curved section. Also, avoid wherever possible having rail joints on the curved sections. If you have to be very careful in making them as it is very easy to leave a kink in the track at a joint.

 

Mark A