Any Question Answered

[John57sharp]

Evening all, just wondering if anybody can recommend a method for holding small parts, eg the buffer cage assembly on the 08 pictured while they are soldered up? TIA

[Chris Higgs]

Evening all, just wondering if anybody can recommend a method for holding small parts, eg the buffer cage assembly on the 08 pictured while they are soldered up? TIAE0C25B08-B693-4FFD-ACE8-4CFDD9707C53.jpeg

 

You can pin them to balsa, use modified clothes pegs (David Eveleigh did an article once about that), use metal clips such as hair clips.

 

Incidentally, for what I see in the photo you have soldered the front bufferbeam of the 08 to the part that is for the rear bufferbeam?

 

Chris

[John57sharp]

Thanks Chris, I’ll look that out, and fix the part too, I had a feeling there was a problem there, thanks for your correction.

 

Cheers

John

[John57sharp]

You can pin them to balsa, use modified clothes pegs (David Eveleigh did an article once about that), use metal clips such as hair clips.

Indeed he did, search in the members section on Interference Clamps to see the article and diagrams. Really useful, thanks again Chris and David.

 

Progress report to follow when I have got over my embarrassment!

 

John

[John57sharp]

First look at David’s clothes peg interference clamp, took longer to find a peg than to make. Genius!

Edited December 11, 2017 by John57sharp

[Wyvern]

Hi,

 

I am planning to convert a farish N class to finescale much as John Greenwood did by fitting 2fs rims to the farish wheels.   As these are reasonably fragile, I wanted to get some advice on what turning speeds to use on the wheels - treat them as brass?   I'll likely remove one wheel of each wheelset from the axle to hold the wheel boss/bearing surface in a collet.  I will freshly sharpen the tool beforehand.  I imagine loctite 603 is a good bet to fix the rims to the wheels? 

 

thanks

 

Guy

[Nigelcliffe]

 

I am planning to convert a farish N class to finescale much as John Greenwood did by fitting 2fs rims to the farish wheels.   As these are reasonably fragile, I wanted to get some advice on what turning speeds to use on the wheels - treat them as brass?   I'll likely remove one wheel of each wheelset from the axle to hold the wheel boss/bearing surface in a collet.  I will freshly sharpen the tool beforehand.  I imagine loctite 603 is a good bet to fix the rims to the wheels? 

 

My experience of Farish recent steam wheels is they are made of a type of mazac, and then plated (nickel?) for the wheel outer finish.   So, cutting through them is initially very hard, then something which is a very gloopy alloy.   Cutting speed, anyone's guess with that lot of materials. 

 

Holding them:   I'd be making a chuck fixture which centred the wheel on the axle hole, and then clamped drive pressure near the rim.  Otherwise turning forces risk twisting the wheel around the spokes and effectively destroying it.   The fixture is a fairly simple cylindrical job, so not very long to make on the lathe, with a clamp screw through it, or use a rotating centre on the tailstock to push the clamp shut onto the wheel rims. 

 

Fixing rims:  Work out where the pickups will touch the wheel before making a decision.   If the pickups touch the 2mm rims properly, then fixing doesn't matter.   If the pickups are going to run on Farish wheel centre material, then your fixing needs to be electrically conductive.   The solution 2mm FS shop wheels use is to put retainer (a 603 variant) on about 1/3rd of the circumference, and rely on that pulling the rim fractionally off-centre and thus making electrical contact in the "dry" area.  (The 2mm shop wheels then have their axles turned to match the rim, so the fractional off-centre is removed ).

 

 

- Nigel

[PeteT]

Hi,

 

I am planning to convert a farish N class to finescale much as John Greenwood did by fitting 2fs rims to the farish wheels.   As these are reasonably fragile, I wanted to get some advice on what turning speeds to use on the wheels - treat them as brass?   I'll likely remove one wheel of each wheelset from the axle to hold the wheel boss/bearing surface in a collet.  I will freshly sharpen the tool beforehand.  I imagine loctite 603 is a good bet to fix the rims to the wheels? 

 

thanks

 

Guy

Hi Guy

I have converted 3 N Class locos very quickly and easily using the Association "Jinty" conversion bearings and gear with appropriate diameter Association wheels.

To make the conversion even easier, I just tapped the wheels to take the original Farish screw crankpins.

About 3 hours work and you have a nicely running finescale N Class, if you don't mind the overscale valve gear and coupling rods.

Regards

Pete T

[Chris Higgs]

Hi Guy

I have converted 3 N Class locos very quickly and easily using the Association "Jinty" conversion bearings and gear with appropriate diameter Association wheels.

To make the conversion even easier, I just tapped the wheels to take the original Farish screw crankpins.

About 3 hours work and you have a nicely running finescale N Class, if you don't mind the overscale valve gear and coupling rods.

Regards

Pete T

 

If I was doing one, I would follow this route. The turning down of the Farish wheels sounds fraught with danger. John Greenwood may have done it, but as Jerry observed at the AGM, John can do a lot of things that the rest of us will just mess up. 

 

Of course, you can try turning the wheels first, then when if that fails, you can use Association wheels instead.

 

Chris

[Wyvern]

Nigel/ Pete/ Chris,

 

Thanks for your advice.    I am going to first try the re-rimming method and if that fails - I will probably go with Pete's solution.   Can I ask Pete, what thread are the crankpins - M1 or 0.75?

 

Guy 

[PeteT]

Guy

I think it was M1, but I can't be certain. I would check for you, but I can't get out to my workshop since sliding on ice on Monday and tearing a hamstring. I will confirm when I get more mobile.

Good luck with the re-rimming.

Pete

[nick_bastable]

Hi Guy

I have converted 3 N Class locos very quickly and easily using the Association "Jinty" conversion bearings and gear with appropriate diameter Association wheels.

To make the conversion even easier, I just tapped the wheels to take the original Farish screw crankpins.

About 3 hours work and you have a nicely running finescale N Class, if you don't mind the overscale valve gear and coupling rods.

Regards

Pete 

interesting what size wheels did you use ?  I think I could  live with the chunky valve gear

 

Nick

[Wyvern]

Guy

I think it was M1, but I can't be certain. I would check for you, but I can't get out to my workshop since sliding on ice on Monday and tearing a hamstring. I will confirm when I get more mobile.

Good luck with the re-rimming.

Pete

 

Pete - I have taken one of the crank bolts out and measured the outside diameter as 0.97mm so I believe its an M1 thread.  Sorry to hear about your hamstring - I wish you a speedy as possible recovery

 

Guy

[PeteT]

Hi Nick

Wheels were 10mm, the pony and tender wheels are thinned down Farish to match finescale standards. The other modification that I made was to file away a small area of the chassis blocks to allow a CTELEKTRONICS chip to be mounted in the top of the firebox picking up from both sides of the loco chassis. I also used 2 fine wires to connect with the tender pick-ups through a micro 2 pin connector rather than relying on the drawer bar to transmit power. This means that the loco can be run without the tender attached for testing and I find the wires more reliable than the rubbing contacts on the drawer bar. Another benefit was that it was then easy to make a replacement drawer bar to close the loco to tender gap.

I had intended writing this up for the magazine, but a house move and other thing have got in the way.

I hope this helps. Incidentally I have done Merchant Navy and 4F using the same method with equal success.

Pete

[PeteT]

Hi

I've just read my last post and noticed the "drawer" bar. it should read draw bar. The curse of predictive text strikes again.

Pete

[Wyvern]

Hi Pete,

 

I am using 11mm wheels as the Farish N Class originals are 10.8mm.   These seem to fit without any clearance issues and I think this is the rim diameter John Greenwood would have used.   I have also found that the 57xx coupling rods from the replacement rods for GF locomotives (3-205) seem to be an exact match for the N class (approximately 14.5mm +16.5mm) although the rod knuckle is around the wrong way.  The rods are designed for larger crankpins for the old ballentine wheels I think, but as the original farish mechanism has alot of "slop" in the mechanism, I am hoping this wont be an issue.

 

Guy

[Chris Higgs]

Hi Pete,

 

I am using 11mm wheels as the Farish N Class originals are 10.8mm.   These seem to fit without any clearance issues and I think this is the rim diameter John Greenwood would have used.   I have also found that the 57xx coupling rods from the replacement rods for GF locomotives (3-205) seem to be an exact match for the N class (approximately 14.5mm +16.5mm) although the rod knuckle is around the wrong way.  The rods are designed for larger crankpins for the old ballentine wheels I think, but as the original farish mechanism has alot of "slop" in the mechanism, I am hoping this wont be an issue.

 

Guy

 

An N class does indeed have the same coupled wheelbase as a GWR 57XX Pannier (as well as a Dean Goods and the 2251 classes).

 

Chris

[PeteT]

Hi Guy

The wheels that I used may have been 11mm,they did match the Farish ones for overall size, it's nearly 2 years since I did the conversions and my memory is not as good as it was. The locos, as well as all the rest of my modelling gear is in loads of plastic boxes in my new log cabin/modelling room awaiting unpacking in a couple of weeks time.

Good luck with the conversion.

Pete

[Lacathedrale]

Well I've been looking for a smaller scale after the realisation my attic wouldn't be a good place for a railway. My original idea was for TT but being reliant on cottage industry entirely has come back to bite me: not a single one of the kits I wanted to start with is available.

 

With that in mind and my history in American N and desire for Railway as opposed to diorama, it seems a no-brainer to try 2mmFS specifically because I can rewheel the Dapol RTR stuff (in this case I'm thinking initially of class 33, 73, 37 and various sectorisation/NSE bits). Right?

 

My only question for now is, what is the suggested minimum radius for visible sections, and absolute minimum (let's assume a Co-Co bogie for these purposes) for return loops? I'm thinking of two visible sections with a non-modelled return loop at either end and a 90 degree bend in the middle (to fit around two walls in my shed)

[Lacathedrale]

Double post, soery

Edited December 21, 2017 by Lacathedrale

[Chris Higgs]

Well I've been looking for a smaller scale after the realisation my attic wouldn't be a good place for a railway. My original idea was for TT but being reliant on cottage industry entirely has come back to bite me: not a single one of the kits I wanted to start with is available.

 

With that in mind and my history in American N and desire for Railway as opposed to diorama, it seems a no-brainer to try 2mmFS specifically because I can rewheel the Dapol RTR stuff (in this case I'm thinking initially of class 33, 73, 37 and various sectorisation/NSE bits). Right?

 

My only question for now is, what is the suggested minimum radius for visible sections, and absolute minimum (let's assume a Co-Co bogie for these purposes) for return loops? I'm thinking of two visible sections with a non-modelled return loop at either end and a 90 degree bend in the middle (to fit around two walls in my shed)

 

Depends what you want to run. I would suggest 24" (600mm) for visible sections and 18" (450mm) for hidden sections. Steam locos may well object to that, but diesels could be OK. But the best way might be to do a test.

 

It is also possible to follow the real thing and put a continuous checkrail on sharp curves. I have a P4 layout where that had to be resorted to.

 

Chris

Edited December 21, 2017 by Chris Higgs

[Lacathedrale]

Understood. I guess with an 8'6" square shed, that means I'm down to >7' for visible sections with that 90' bend, and even less than 6' if I want a continuous run. Thank you!

 

My last questions are around re-wheeling and components:

1. It looks like the 2mm society has a great variety of steam and diesel wheels to purchase, but for diesels only Grafar options. The item 3-071 on this page is the correct diameter for a Dapol 33: http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/drop-in-wheels.html#footnote1 - what kind of fettling would it require to install?
2. Can one reasonably expect that all the bits listed in the society shop are either generally available or otherwise available in reasonable timeframes? Some of the items in the store are marked 'temporarily out of stock', which is fine if it really is temporary - but if we're talking years - then that might be a problem! (For example: Class 08 chassis)

[2mm Andy]

 

Understood. I guess with an 8'6" square shed, that means I'm down to >7' for visible sections with that 90' bend, and even less than 6' if I want a continuous run. Thank you!

 

My last questions are around re-wheeling and components:

1. It looks like the 2mm society has a great variety of steam and diesel wheels to purchase, but for diesels only Grafar options. The item 3-071 on this page is the correct diameter for a Dapol 33: http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/drop-in-wheels.html#footnote1 - what kind of fettling would it require to install?
2. Can one reasonably expect that all the bits listed in the society shop are either generally available or otherwise available in reasonable timeframes? Some of the items in the store are marked 'temporarily out of stock', which is fine if it really is temporary - but if we're talking years - then that might be a problem! (For example: Class 08 chassis)

 

 

I wouldn't recommend trying to install 3-071 into a Dapol chassis. The Dapol chassis has pinpoints on the ends of the axles, but the Farish chassis that 3-071 is designed to fit is a totally different design without pinpoints. What you can do is to get the Dapol N gauge wheels turned-down. The service is offered by an Association member and costs 85p per axle plus postage. The reason that the conversion wheels are all for Farish diesels is the lack of consistency between Dapol designs - it wouldn't be cost effective to produce a new set of wheels for each model.

 

Generally speaking Association products are produced in small batches, so do go out of stock from time to time. Steam loco wheels are in short supply at present as one of the chaps who was involved in the manufacturing process died at the end of last year. We're now getting wheels made again, but it relies on someone doing some fairly skilled lathework and then hand assembling them, so isn't a quick process. Regarding the 08, I'm pretty sure that the chassis etch is back in stock but the website is a bit out of date.

 

Andy

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Andy! My membership form is in! O take it the gent who will turn the axles will advertise in the society magazine?

[2mm Andy]

Thanks Andy! My membership form is in! O take it the gent who will turn the axles will advertise in the society magazine?

 

Welcome aboard!

 

Details of the wheel turning service are in the Yearbook which will be in your membership pack.

 

Andy