Any Question Answered

[2milgeezer]

Hello and Happy New Year to all!

 

I have tried to subscribe to the "2mmNn3" Yahoo! Group by emailing the owner a week ago but no reply yet. I can see there has been no activity for over four years and I was wondering if anyone here can advise if the group is no longer maintained (I was most interested to see the photo albums).

Valentin

 

You are quite correct, there have been no posts on that Yahoo Group for a long while. I believe Brother Copleston is one of the owners.

 

Most of the 2mm narrow gauge activity these days appears on the ngrm-online forum site.

 

Brian

[Lacathedrale]

I really would start with some simple stuff, especially as you are having to approach all aspects of 2mm modelling from scratch at once. If you really want to do an etched kit, choose one of Stephen Harris's more basic ones, for example one of his 21T mineral wagons.

 

Chris

 

I've put an order into Shop3 (I think?) for Association axles/bearings and drop-in replacement axles for Farish stock, so I'm hoping to get that invoice soon and receive those. It appears that RTR stock is at least as expensive as kit built even used, and even for something as ubiquitous as a mineral wagon. The plan is to re-wheel a few to get me started, and then build a few kits.

[Phil Copleston]

Hello and Happy New Year to all!

 

I have tried to subscribe to the "2mmNn3" Yahoo! Group by emailing the owner a week ago but no reply yet. I can see there has been no activity for over four years and I was wondering if anyone here can advise if the group is no longer maintained (I was most interested to see the photo albums).

 

Hello Valentin (and anyone else keen on 2mm NG/Nn3 modelling),

 

Indeed, I am the admin for the '2mmnn3' Yahoo Group, while Julia Adams is the actual owner. https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/2mmnn3/info Somehow I missed your email - sorry, but I have now approved your Group application. Welcome!

 

You are correct - there has been very little activity on the Yahoo Group's site of late. I suspect the issue is that such email discussion lists are a bit clunky and old hat these days. So I started a Facebook '2mm Scale Narrow Gauge Group' a couple of years ago and consequently this now receives a lot more attention. See: https://www.facebook.com/2mmScaleNarrowGaugeGroup/ 

 

A bit of background:

 

2mm narrow gauge modelling has a long history - going back to the early 1950s. In 1993, Mark Fielder and I started the '2mm Scale Narrow Gauge Group' as a Special Interest Group (SIG) of the 2mm Scale Association, which we remain part of. We eventually attracted upwards of 60 members and to support the group I published a series of eight periodic '2mm Scale Narrow Gauge News' magazines with some technical assistance (scanning of photos) from Roy C Link. This was fine for a while, but I ended up writing most of it which became a chore, so that ceased in 1998.

 

But Mark and I (as the '2mm Scale Narrow Gauge Group') have attended every Expo-NG in Swanley since 1994 with a 2mmNG layout and modelling demo, and at the erstwhile Narrow Gauge South West at Shepton Mallet from 1995 until that show's demise in Feb 2017. We also attended several other NG shows as the '2mm Scale Narrow Gauge Group' in between. 

 

Julia Adams started the '2mmnn3' Yahoo Group in Feb 2008 and asked me to jointly admin that Group. At first this received a lot of attention and I uploaded a lot of my 2mm NG archive photos and most of the newsletters as pdfs to that site, but it was again a lot of work. Interest eventually tailed off, as we found with the formal '2mm Scale Narrow Gauge Group'. The problem is that people are often happy to receive but do not always want to actively contribute.

 

But as a loose group we are still very active - with Mark and I acting more of a contact point than a formally organised group. This seems to work better and is less hassle to admin. As always, as a group we cater for 2mm (1:152 on various gauges, but mainly 4mm, 4.5mm, 5mm and 6mm) and N (1:160, 6.5mm and 4.5mm gauges) narrow gauge modelling. 

 

Anyway, to keep interest going and to provide an easier-to-access forum for discussions, in January 2016 I started the current Facebook '2mm Scale Narrow Gauge Group'. This is much better and is pretty much self-administering. Mark Fielder and I are the admins.

 

I also started a '2mm Scale Narrow Gauge' discussion thread here on RMweb in June 2016. This also contains some posts and photos.

 

Feel free to join any of these 2mmNG/Nn3 groups:

 

Facebook 2mmNG Group: https://www.facebook.com/2mmScaleNarrowGaugeGroup/

 

RMweb 2mmNG Group: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/111723-2mm-scale-narrow-gauge-group/

 

'2mmnn3' Yahoo Group: https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/2mmnn3/info

Edited January 2, 2018 by Phil Copleston

[Valentin]

Thank you for all the information provided.

[chrisveitch]

A recent rummage in my junk box came up with an old Farish Class 24 body which came from who-knows-where a long time ago. The chances of finding a secondhand chassis sans body to go with this seem to be fairly slim which got me thinking - has anyone in the Association ever looked at producing replacement chassis for RTR diesels?

 

I know the current offerings almost certainly can't bettered mechanically, but presumably a couple of bogie etches and bits to produce a common drive train would cover many (if not most) of the BR diesel fleet? I'd guess that most of the bogie sides are common to more than one class and bits and pieces such as tanks, battery boxes etc. could be covered by 3D prints or simple resin castings. Just a thought - possible uses might be the more obscure prototypes or older RTR models which originally had less reliable or adaptable chassis?

Edited January 3, 2018 by chrisveitch

[Chris Higgs]

A recent rummage in my junk box came up with an old Farish Class 24 body which came from who-knows-where a long time ago. The chances of finding a secondhand chassis sans body to go with this seem to be fairly slim which got me thinking - has anyone in the Association ever looked at producing replacement chassis for RTR diesels?

 

I know the current offerings almost certainly can't bettered mechanically, but presumably a couple of bogie etches and bits to produce a common drive train would cover many (if not most) of the BR diesel fleet? I'd guess that most of the bogie sides are common to more than one class and bits and pieces such as tanks, battery boxes etc. could be covered by 3D prints or simple resin castings. Just a thought - possible uses might be the more obscure prototypes or older RTR models which originally had less reliable or adaptable chassis?

 

Been thought about and done (by Stephen Harris). Never emerged as a product. It is not as half as easy as you might think, and the costs of the gears alone makes it pretty much a non-starter.

 

Chris

[chrisveitch]

Been thought about and done (by Stephen Harris). Never emerged as a product. It is not as half as easy as you might think, and the costs of the gears alone makes it pretty much a non-starter.

 

Chris

 

Thanks Chris - I thought there must be a reason and that seems reasonable enough.

[Chris Higgs]

Thanks Chris - I thought there must be a reason and that seems reasonable enough.

 

Certain aspects of a bogie design would be easier now, for example to a 3D-printed component to make the piece within which the bogie rotates. But I still think most people would find it easier to hack something RTR. If you really fancy it, I do believe there are US diesels (a GP-40?) which has a suitable wheelbase for a Class 24.

 

Chris

[Kylestrome]

................... has anyone in the Association ever looked at producing replacement chassis for RTR diesels?

 

The current Graham Farish chassis runs so well there is hardly any need for such a thing.

 

Many moons ago I built my own 2FS chassis for a Class 24 which was a very long-winded process. It runs very well but the gearing makes it quite noisy. For the rest of my fleet I am using re-wheeled Farish and Dapol locos. I would be very hard put to improve on them for quiet, smooth running and I can use the time saved for other things.

 

David

Edited January 3, 2018 by Kylestrome

[chrisveitch]

Certain aspects of a bogie design would be easier now, for example to a 3D-printed component to make the piece within which the bogie rotates. But I still think most people would find it easier to hack something RTR. If you really fancy it, I do believe there are US diesels (a GP-40?) which has a suitable wheelbase for a Class 24.

 

Chris

 

Thanks Chris - as you're rightly surmised, my thoughts were "It's a shame a can't doing anything with this - is it worth trying or should I just chuck it in the bin and phone Hattons?". 

 

I think Hattons probably win out here. 

[Pyewipe Jct]

Thanks Chris - as you're rightly surmised, my thoughts were "It's a shame a can't doing anything with this - is it worth trying or should I just chuck it in the bin and phone Hattons?". 

 

I think Hattons probably win out here. 

 

If its only destination is destined to be the bin, then I'll happily send a few quid your way & give it a new home - I could do with a Class 24 body to apply a few modifications to...

[Izzy]

As Chris Higgs says American diesels can provide useful parts, which have I believe been used in the past as the basis for producing adaptable length chassis for diesels/dmu's ( TPM models I think). Bachmann USA will ship parts worldwide and this is how I managed to make a chassis for a class 15 when no other option existed, using bogies from a H16-44, the lower half plugging into the worm housing as is now common practice, so just a couple of bits of brass were needed for the basic chassis, the worm housings sandwiched between them. As the outer frames are clip-fit it's easy to replace them with something more suitable.

 

 

TBH getting a new Farish 24 and popping in some drop-in wheels is the best option all-round for a 24, but when you want something where no RTR exists then it's something to perhaps consider.

 

regards,

 

Izzy

[Chris Higgs]

As Chris Higgs says American diesels can provide useful parts, which have I believe been used in the past as the basis for producing adaptable length chassis for diesels/dmu's ( TPM models I think). Bachmann USA will ship parts worldwide and this is how I managed to make a chassis for a class 15 when no other option existed, using bogies from a H16-44, the lower half plugging into the worm housing as is now common practice, so just a couple of bits of brass were needed for the basic chassis, the worm housings sandwiched between them. As the outer frames are clip-fit it's easy to replace them with something more suitable.

 

NGF 03.jpg

 

TBH getting a new Farish 24 and popping in some drop-in wheels is the best option all-round for a 24, but when you want something where no RTR exists then it's something to perhaps consider.

 

regards,

 

Izzy

 

Some locos like the Bachmann here have plastic housings that are perhaps easier to modify than the Katos which tend to use split frame. You could also 3D print a whole new housing in plastic or metal and just reuse the bogies. 

 

Chris

[Richard Hall]

What solder cream / paste do people recommend for small components?  I bought some solder cream (Loctite / Multicore) to build an etched kit last year, it cost £30 for a 20g syringe which was horribly expensive but it worked beautifully with my resistance soldering unit.  Unfortunately it seems to have dried out and no longer flows from the syringe which is apparently a common problem with this stuff. You are supposed to keep it in the fridge, and I didn't know that.  I tried some cheap solder paste from Ebay and it wasn't nearly as good. I'm now getting ready to take the plunge in 2mm with a couple of wagon chassis kits. Any suggestions before I splash out another £30?

 

Richard

[queensquare]

What solder cream / paste do people recommend for small components?  I bought some solder cream (Loctite / Multicore) to build an etched kit last year, it cost £30 for a 20g syringe which was horribly expensive but it worked beautifully with my resistance soldering unit.  Unfortunately it seems to have dried out and no longer flows from the syringe which is apparently a common problem with this stuff. You are supposed to keep it in the fridge, and I didn't know that.  I tried some cheap solder paste from Ebay and it wasn't nearly as good. I'm now getting ready to take the plunge in 2mm with a couple of wagon chassis kits. Any suggestions before I splash out another £30?

 

Richard

Just use normal solder and acid flux - much cheaper.

 

Jerry

[Caley Jim]

I use Carrs 188 solder paint for etched kits. Cost me around £11.00 several years ago. If it gets a bit thick I just add a spot of water. I've built umpteen kits with it and there's still loads left.

 

Jim

[Mim]

Hello Richard,

The solder pastes have a limited shelf life before their dispensing properties go off. The refrigeration bit is a recommendation for industrial scale electronics soldering, where consistent and repeatable dispensing is essential (my day job at various times!). The high solids content and particle size make syringe clogging a common risk, hence the shelf life and refrigeration restrictions. Turning what you have got in to a paint by adding more solvent, water, isopropyl alcohol, or whatever would make it usable again as Caley Jim suggests. These days, water is probably a good solvent to do this, but try with a small quantity first. If not, then an organic one like IPA. The solder paste consists of fine solder particles, solvents to make it flow and liquid flux to deoxidise the metal and solder surfaces when the joint is made. If the paste was made for electronics the fluxes are not that active compared to the liquid fluxes model makers use. Particularly the pastes sold as not requiring cleaning of flux residues after use. The solder particles will grow thicker oxide layers as time goes on and the flux may go off, but adding liquid flux to the surface being joined if required and more solvent to make it a paint should extend its life for model making for many years.

 

Mim

Edited January 4, 2018 by Mim

[Donw]

I agree with the others the stuff in a syringe is most reluctent to come out without applying excessive force not ideal. The solder paint that Jim uses seems ok but I would agree with Jerry that normal solder and flux is fine . I tend to tin one or both parts with 145 solder they can then be placed in position and heat applied the tinning will do the job of the solder paste/paint a wipe of liquid flux can help.

 

Don

[Chris Higgs]

Just use normal solder and acid flux - much cheaper.

 

Jerry

 

Not if you are using an RSU. Paste is essential in that case. I use the Carrs which is excellent, and it comes in two different melting points, although the days when you can get it for 11.00 are a distant memory. I keep a bit of stainless steel guitar string to hand to unblock the nozzle as needed. 

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/soldercreams

 

Chris

Edited January 4, 2018 by Chris Higgs

[2mmMark]

A recent rummage in my junk box came up with an old Farish Class 24 body which came from who-knows-where a long time ago. The chances of finding a secondhand chassis sans body to go with this seem to be fairly slim which got me thinking - has anyone in the Association ever looked at producing replacement chassis for RTR diesels?

 

I know the current offerings almost certainly can't bettered mechanically, but presumably a couple of bogie etches and bits to produce a common drive train would cover many (if not most) of the BR diesel fleet? I'd guess that most of the bogie sides are common to more than one class and bits and pieces such as tanks, battery boxes etc. could be covered by 3D prints or simple resin castings. Just a thought - possible uses might be the more obscure prototypes or older RTR models which originally had less reliable or adaptable chassis?

 

My first running 2mm loco (in 1983!) was a Langley 24 on a Mike Bryant chassis kit. Mike offered a range of diesel drive units and motor bogies.

 

It ran quite well but in my naivety, I assumed the unbushed etched brass was OK for chassis frames and the chassis was assembled with more enthusiasm than skill.

 

Contrary to what's been said, I think it's worth having a go at a split frame diesel chassis as it gives a chance to learn the techniques of gear meshing and frame assembly while avoiding quartering of coupling rods. A much lower gear reduction can be used too. A diesel body will easily house a decent size coreless motor and a hefty flywheel.

 

One of my projects is a chassis for the Armstrong-Whitworth D2 which is basically a single 6 wheel motor bogie with a pony truck at either end.  Nigel Lawton belt drive components can be used, these will be quieter than the equivalent gear train.  In fact Nigel does an 18mm wheelbase drive unit that could be used as the basis for a motor bogie.

 

Fabricating sideframes would be the hard bit, if appropriate spares cannot be obtained.  Where a scratchbuilt chassis scores is in the ability pull in the bogie sideframes to something more akin to a scale width and incorporating more convincing end detail.

 

Diesel underframes are worthy of study.  Dapol and Farish are getting better much improved over early efforts but when you look at the real thing, it's far from being a solid moulding. There's a lot of components which are hung on brackets and getting a bit of daylight & airiness in this area really helps capture the feel of the loco.

 

Mark

[Lacathedrale]

EDIT: don't worry - decided to adjust my order from full easitrac to pcb + versaline chairs and see how it pans out before dumping £60 on easitrac turnouts.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[garethashenden]

What solder cream / paste do people recommend for small components?  I bought some solder cream (Loctite / Multicore) to build an etched kit last year, it cost £30 for a 20g syringe which was horribly expensive but it worked beautifully with my resistance soldering unit.  Unfortunately it seems to have dried out and no longer flows from the syringe which is apparently a common problem with this stuff. You are supposed to keep it in the fridge, and I didn't know that.  I tried some cheap solder paste from Ebay and it wasn't nearly as good. I'm now getting ready to take the plunge in 2mm with a couple of wagon chassis kits. Any suggestions before I splash out another £30?

 

Richard

I use the solder paste sold by Eileen's Emporium. It does dry out over time, but I've added liquid flux back in and stirred it to a usable consistency.  I've been using the same jar since 2013, I think I've added flux twice. It still works well.

[chrisveitch]

My first running 2mm loco (in 1983!) was a Langley 24 on a Mike Bryant chassis kit. Mike offered a range of diesel drive units and motor bogies.

 

It ran quite well but in my naivety, I assumed the unbushed etched brass was OK for chassis frames and the chassis was assembled with more enthusiasm than skill.

 

Contrary to what's been said, I think it's worth having a go at a split frame diesel chassis as it gives a chance to learn the techniques of gear meshing and frame assembly while avoiding quartering of coupling rods. A much lower gear reduction can be used too. A diesel body will easily house a decent size coreless motor and a hefty flywheel.

 

One of my projects is a chassis for the Armstrong-Whitworth D2 which is basically a single 6 wheel motor bogie with a pony truck at either end.  Nigel Lawton belt drive components can be used, these will be quieter than the equivalent gear train.  In fact Nigel does an 18mm wheelbase drive unit that could be used as the basis for a motor bogie.

 

Fabricating sideframes would be the hard bit, if appropriate spares cannot be obtained.  Where a scratchbuilt chassis scores is in the ability pull in the bogie sideframes to something more akin to a scale width and incorporating more convincing end detail.

 

Diesel underframes are worthy of study.  Dapol and Farish are getting better much improved over early efforts but when you look at the real thing, it's far from being a solid moulding. There's a lot of components which are hung on brackets and getting a bit of daylight & airiness in this area really helps capture the feel of the loco.

 

Mark

 

Thanks Mark - I do remember the Mike Bryant components now that you mention them.

 

Others have pointed out that the current RTR chassis are so good that it's not with doing your own, but that doesn't seem to have prevented Penbits etc. producing (and presumably selling in commercial quantities) more accurate replacement diesel bogies for the 4mm guys although I guess that market is very much larger.  

[2mm Andy]

Thanks Mark - I do remember the Mike Bryant components now that you mention them.

 

Others have pointed out that the current RTR chassis are so good that it's not with doing your own, but that doesn't seem to have prevented Penbits etc. producing (and presumably selling in commercial quantities) more accurate replacement diesel bogies for the 4mm guys although I guess that market is very much larger.  

 

I think the main ethos behind Penbits is adding suspension to the RTR chassis (rather than producing more accurate replacement parts). Suspension isn't seen as quite so critical in 2mm scale.

 

Andy

[2mm Andy]

Not if you are using an RSU. Paste is essential in that case. I use the Carrs which is excellent, and it comes in two different melting points, although the days when you can get it for 11.00 are a distant memory. I keep a bit of stainless steel guitar string to hand to unblock the nozzle as needed. 

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/soldercreams

 

Chris

 

Another vote for the Carrs solder creams for RSU work, but as well as increasing the price, it looks as though Phoenix have changed the composition of both solder creams - they are now listed as lead-free.

 

The small syringes of 'Easi Print' solder cream sold in the 2mm shops are good (and still seem to be lead/tin/silver composition), but do have a tendency to dry up in the syringe (unlike my Carrs stuff, which is fine after about 7 or 8 years occasional use). Mind you, at only £3 a pack, I'd not be too concerned at having to throw one away.

 

Andy