Any Question Answered

[Izzy]

 

52 minutes ago, itsthegman said:

Can Dapol bogies be converted to 2mmfs.

 

I have a single car dmu class 121 and have two dummy bogies for it, i've got the missing gear 16t for the princely sum of 60p it just clicks in, so i have one set to run on standard track and would like to know if the wheels can be turned to fine scale as the bogies just pull out and click in so would seem like an easy option.

 

I've taken some pics so hopefully that might help

 

What say you.

 

Thanks,

 

G.

 As Argos says Dapol wheels can be modified in a lathe to suit 2FS standards, but as well as the wheels being turned down, as they are on stub axles and use split-axle current collection through the pin-point ends, then they also need moving outwards on the stub axles to suit the 2FS btb. I believe the 2mm association wheel turning service is still running and offers this type of modification.

 

Izzy

[nick_bastable]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

 

. I believe the 2mm association wheel turning service is still running and offers this type of modification.

 

Izzy

Gordon has turned down several Farish and Dapol pin point axles both geared and un=geared for me with out issues

 

Nick B

[Nigelcliffe]

11 hours ago, Geordie Exile said:

Hi folks. I'm approaching the end of assembling my first ever brass kit, namely the 2fs mineral wagon 1/108 from the association sample pack.  So far so good, until...

 

I've got through the assembly notes for the 4 shoe vac fitted underframe, and hit a solid wall at

20: Bend up and assemble brake lever/lever guard assembly. 

21: Bend door bangers away from sole bar.

22: Attach lever guard assembly 

23: Attach wire stub to Morton clutch.

 

Ok, I'm new to almost everything railway. My questions:

- Where on the etch is the lever/lever guard assembly?

- What should it look like when it's bent up and assembled?

- Where do I attach it, and

- What and where is the Morton clutch?

 

Below is what's left of the etch.

 

Be gentle with me, I'm new to this. Thanks in advance.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, you've cut a brake-lever part into two.   But it is retrievable.

 

 

You cut the lever off at point labelled "1",  this was a mistake, that is a bend half-etch (a double bend through 180 degrees), with a further bend at point "2".  The little stick to the side ("3") is the stay at the bottom of a brake lever guide to the bottom of the  W-iron.  

 

The part labelled "4" is the Morton clutch of one brake lever.  The clutch is only present on one side of a wagon.   I've drawn over the whole of that lever in orange. 

 

 

What should happen with the whole lever is as follows:
Make a 180 degree bend in the half etch (would be at "1"), creating a U-shape with a small gap between the sides,  then make a further 90 degree bend at "2" (which is now just above the lever handle), so the part points wraps around the handle and goes inwards to the sole bar  (look at a real wagon, the handle is inside and below the fixture to the solebar).  This part goes into a hole in the sole bar to secure the lever to wagon. 
Next, make small bends at the little notches along the lever to shape it around the axle boxes, and back in towards the V-hanger.  

The support stay at the bottom of the lever guide is either removed, or needs bending (and sometimes filing) to bring it to the bottom of the W-iron.   Consult prototype pictures of wagon to see if stay is present and how it lines up.

Check visually that brake lever assembly all fits, and lines up. 

 

 

To fix what you have, cut out the remaining lever parts (labels 1, 2, 3).  Either shape the half etch ("1") into a U, or file it away.  Make bend at "2".   If you can, put a tiny scrap of material at the bottom, to act as a spacer, then solder the cut-off part to the outside onto the spacer.      Bend the lever arm to shape at the notch points to clear the axleboxes.  Trial fit to wagon, adjust, then final fit. 

 

 

 

There is a set of videos in preparation of how to build these kits - about 2 hours of watching, and it covers the brake levers.   Not sure when editing will be declared as "finished", but hopefully soon. 

 

 

- Nigel

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Nigelcliffe

[Chris Higgs]

13 hours ago, Izzy said:

 

 As Argos says Dapol wheels can be modified in a lathe to suit 2FS standards, but as well as the wheels being turned down, as they are on stub axles and use split-axle current collection through the pin-point ends, then they also need moving outwards on the stub axles to suit the 2FS btb. I believe the 2mm association wheel turning service is still running and offers this type of modification.

 

Izzy

 

If doing it yourself, it is key when you push the axle into the wheel to do it in a way that does not damage the pinpoint. Best way is a hole in a block of metal smaller than the axle diameter, then the pressure on the axle is applied on the shoulders of the pinpoint, not on the point itself.

 

Chris

[Geordie Exile]

Thank you @Nigelcliffe, that's really helpful.  And those videos sound helpful to a beginner like me - two hours potentially well spent.

 

R

[Izzy]

9 minutes ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

If doing it yourself, it is key when you push the axle into the wheel to do it in a way that does not damage the pinpoint. Best way is a hole in a block of metal smaller than the axle diameter, then the pressure on the axle is applied on the shoulders of the pinpoint, not on the point itself.

 

Chris

 

Yes, that's the issue, and especially as it's an all-metal stub axle/wheel so shifting the wheel on the axle isn't as easy/simple as with a plastic centered wheel given the much greater resistance involved.

 

I made this little wheel puller tool to help. Just 8ba bolts with different ends ( one bored as in the shots for pin points, one with a reduced end for pushing flat axles) in a piece of brass. A 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, or full turn as needed, the thread giving controlled pressure without causing too great a movement when only small amounts are needed. I just use a pair of pliers to grip/turn the bolt.

 

 

 

You can see some Dapol wheels in the shots being adjusted.  I am not in a position at present to offer help to others in these respects which is why I am glad to hear the wheel turning service is still going.

 

Izzy

 

 

[Chris Higgs]

3 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

 

Make a 180 degree bend in the half etch (would be at "1"), creating a U-shape with a small gap between the sides,

 

 

 

I normally do this over a piece of scrap etch or similar to create the gap.

 

Chris

[John Brenchley]

Hi Richard

Just picking up on the part of your question about the Morton Clutch.  As 2mm modellers we don't particularly need to know exactly how it worked but I think it's something to do with operating the brakes from either side of the wagon.  As you will see, the end of one brake lever has one hole and the other has two - the latter represents the clutch arrangement.

 

Regarding attaching this end of the lever, from your picture it looks as if you have fitted a wire cross shaft but have trimmed off the ends close to the V hanger.  if this is the case, I think you will need to fit a new piece of wire and leave it extended each side of the chassis so that you can thread it through the brake lever holes and then re trim afterwards.  For the clutch side lever, my recollection is that the bottom hole is the one that threads onto the cross shaft.  The reference in the instruction to fitting a stub shaft refers to inserting a piece of wire through the top hole - you then trim it close on each side.

 

If you Google for either Morton brakes or for the BR mineral wagon you should find lots of images that will help clarify what the end product should look like.

 

Good luck

 

Best wishes 

 

John

John Brenchley

Perth, Western Australia

[Southernboy]

On 09/06/2020 at 14:03, Lacathedrale said:

In theory yes, I've asked Allan and Worsley and he's said that he's happy to design and produce etches of any MU I can help him with artwork for - so I'm hoping to imitate the results of this wonderful thread: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66512-n-gauge-lswr-3-sub/

 

There are alot of assumptions going on - but if I am able to get suitable artwork and Mr. Doherty is able to etch them, it should be a fairly straight-forward process to put together any combination of southern-region suburban MU from what he's got. I have yet to experiment with 3D printing, but I'm reliably informed by @justin1985 that the various odds and ends required on the underframe, cab ends, roof and bogie sides should be fairly easily done. I would be very happy to share any productive result with the association/etc.

 

Good luck with the 3-Subs

 

If it’s any help:

 

My etches were from Worsley Works, at the time (2013), Allen advertised he could provide etches for any EMU illustrated in Brian Golding’s book ’Southern Electric Units’.  

 

Most odds and ends were available from the N Gauge / 2mm Society Shops.

 

Etched Pixels very kindly produced bespoke roof profiles and trusses which were then made generally available from his online shop.

 

This may save you 3D printing - unless you'd like to of course

 

Minor details were from Plasticard / fuse wire / other off-cuts etc  

 

Two questions if I may (and apologies if I’ve missed anything - been out of touch for a while - and now catching up).

• Are the units for your Holborn Viaduct thread?
• And I’m curious as to your plans for creating third rail / pots.

 

Mark

Edited June 12, 2020 by Southernboy

[Lacathedrale]

Hi @Southernboy - interesting, one of the units depicted on the front of the book looks like a Sub, but I believe Allan is waiting on me to provide artwork for them and Mike King hasn't yet had a chance to reply to my email query.  I don't have that book - the reviews of it on Amazon indicate it's got lots of issues so I didn't pick it up - worthwhile for us? Etched Pixels is out for the shutdown but hopefully that'll come back around soon.

 

As for your question - I've been advised to get an MU working before dedicating myself to a layout which would mandate them! My thought is to grab an existing Worsley Works EMU etch (rather than worrying at this stage about having a new one designed and etched for me) and then attempt to motorise it with the TM-17 before comitting myself to building Holborn OR Caterham. For third rail, I hadn't really thought - maybe association code 30 plain profile rail?

[Chris Higgs]

1 hour ago, John Brenchley said:

Hi Richard

Just picking up on the part of your question about the Morton Clutch.  As 2mm modellers we don't particularly need to know exactly how it worked but I think it's something to do with operating the brakes from either side of the wagon.  As you will see, the end of one brake lever has one hole and the other has two - the latter represents the clutch arrangement.

 

Regarding attaching this end of the lever, from your picture it looks as if you have fitted a wire cross shaft but have trimmed off the ends close to the V hanger.  if this is the case, I think you will need to fit a new piece of wire and leave it extended each side of the chassis so that you can thread it through the brake lever holes and then re trim afterwards.  For the clutch side lever, my recollection is that the bottom hole is the one that threads onto the cross shaft.  The reference in the instruction to fitting a stub shaft refers to inserting a piece of wire through the top hole - you then trim it close on each side.

 

If you Google for either Morton brakes or for the BR mineral wagon you should find lots of images that will help clarify what the end product should look like.

 

Good luck

 

Best wishes 

 

John

John Brenchley

Perth, Western Australia

 

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/nowagonbrakes.html

 

is a good place to look, nice clear diagram. Go to the section on Morton Brakes. If you want to get the levers on the correct side of the wagon, the Morton one goes on the side where the rods to the brakes slope in the same direction as the rod.

 

Chris

 

[Nigelcliffe]

8 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

[ stuff on Association mineral wagon "taster" kit ]

 

There is a set of videos in preparation of how to build these kits - about 2 hours of watching, and it covers the brake levers.   Not sure when editing will be declared as "finished", but hopefully soon. 

 

 

Videos are now available on the 2mm website.

 

Brake levers start about 5 minutes into video 3.

 

- Nigel

 

 

[Geordie Exile]

34 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Videos are now available on the 2mm website.

 

Brake levers start about 5 minutes into video 3.

 

- Nigel

 

 

If only I'd left it 24 hours! :D

[nick_bastable]

7 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Hi @Southernboy - interesting, one of the units depicted on the front of the book looks like a Sub, but I believe Allan is waiting on me to provide artwork for them and Mike King hasn't yet had a chance to reply to my email query.  I don't have that book - the reviews of it on Amazon indicate it's got lots of issues so I didn't pick it up - worthwhile for us? Etched Pixels is out for the shutdown but hopefully that'll come back around soon.

 

As for your question - I've been advised to get an MU working before dedicating myself to a layout which would mandate them! My thought is to grab an existing Worsley Works EMU etch (rather than worrying at this stage about having a new one designed and etched for me) and then attempt to motorise it with the TM-17 before comitting myself to building Holborn OR Caterham. For third rail, I hadn't really thought - maybe association code 30 plain profile rail?

Agree get something working for test and play purposes as to 3rd rail

 

works for me  

Nick B

[Geordie Exile]

On 12/06/2020 at 17:20, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Videos are now available on the 2mm website.

 

Brake levers start about 5 minutes into video 3.

 

- Nigel

 

 

Those videos are invaluable to a beginner like me: both in terms of soldering techniques and piecing the model together. Thanks to those involved in its production, and to the rest of you who replied to my cry for help. I'm really pleased with how it's turned out, and I'm not sure I'll ever be able to go back to RTR stuff.

 

Now just waiting for my airbrush hose to arrive, and I can find another aspect of the hobby to blunder my way into 

 

Richard 

[Mr chapman]

Hello knowledgeable bods

Quick question... When scratch building brake vans what do you use for the angled strapping on the outside of the body? Can you get L shaped brass that small? Or is it a, styrene job? 

[garethashenden]

7 hours ago, Mr chapman said:

Hello knowledgeable bods

Quick question... When scratch building brake vans what do you use for the angled strapping on the outside of the body? Can you get L shaped brass that small? Or is it a, styrene job? 

Which brake vans? Without know which specific class you’re trying to model I can’t offer much advice I’m afraid.

[Mr chapman]

13 hours ago, garethashenden said:

Which brake vans? Without know which specific class you’re trying to model I can’t offer much advice I’m afraid.

Hello. I'm looking at a dance hall. The exterior straping and bracing 

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, Mr chapman said:

Hello. I'm looking at a dance hall. 

Locarno?  Blackpool Tower?  or maybe the Barrowlands?  

 

Jim

[bécasse]

South Eastern & Chatham Railway, of course!

Eileen's Emporium sells both 0,5 x 0,5mm and 0,8 x 0,8mm L section brass. I imagine that the former is probably closest to your requirement (= 3" x 3" in 2FS) but I don't have a drawing readily accessible at the moment to check.

[Mr chapman]

20 hours ago, bécasse said:

South Eastern & Chatham Railway, of course!

Eileen's Emporium sells both 0,5 x 0,5mm and 0,8 x 0,8mm L section brass. I imagine that the former is probably closest to your requirement (= 3" x 3" in 2FS) but I don't have a drawing readily accessible at the moment to check.

 

The braces measure out at 1mm on a 4mm drawing. So that 0.5x0.5 will be perfect, thank you. 

[justin1985]

What do people use for 2mm vacuum pipes?

 

I have a few very nice brass castings picked up from N Brass Locos. While they're not crazily expensive, they still feel a bit over the top to put on all vac fitted/piped wagons - but ideal for locos. 

 

I could 3D print some, but I can't help but think they'd be too brittle to survive for long - the end of a wagon is pretty exposed - especially to fingers when putting a wagon on/taking it off the track, sorting out couplings, etc.

 

It strikes me that vacuum pipes would be a part that would really suit whitemetal. Does anyone make any?

 

Or any other approaches to modelling them?

 

J

[-missy-]

21 minutes ago, justin1985 said:

What do people use for 2mm vacuum pipes?

 

J

 

Hi Justin.

 

Guitar strings. The ones with the wire wound round them. No doubt someone will elaborate as to which particular size. Unwind the coiled bit for the solid pipe and keep the coiled bit for the flexible bit.

 

J.

[richbrummitt]

I bend vac pipes from .45mm brass wire. I use .3mm for Westinghouse pipes, which have a smaller diameter. If you wish to use Julia's idea for guitar strings they are sold in inch sizes based on diameter so a .012" string has that outer diameter (about .3mm) The small sizes are usually not 'wire wound' so do check. Definitely do not use your good cutters on them either.

[Caley Jim]

I use 0.3mm copper wire wound with a strand of fine copper wire from multistrand wire then flooded with solder. 

 

Jim