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Soldering question from a first-time solderer. My iron's been working nicely for me, but in the last couple of days has stopped picking up solder.  I cut small amounts off the roll, and touch the tip to each when I need them.  All it's doing is burning off the central flux core and converting the solder lump into a very shiny ball.  Is it time for a new bit or does it need cleaning (if so how?)?

 

*Edit: follow-up question: have I done something to abuse the bit (I haven't filed it, apparently that's a no-no) that I shouldn't do with the next one?

 

Richard

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1 hour ago, Geordie Exile said:

Soldering question from a first-time solderer. My iron's been working nicely for me, but in the last couple of days has stopped picking up solder.  I cut small amounts off the roll, and touch the tip to each when I need them.  All it's doing is burning off the central flux core and converting the solder lump into a very shiny ball.  Is it time for a new bit or does it need cleaning (if so how?)?

 

*Edit: follow-up question: have I done something to abuse the bit (I haven't filed it, apparently that's a no-no) that I shouldn't do with the next one?

 

Richard

Richard,

you need to keep the tip of the iron clean. A damp sponge is sometimes used for this but I prefer a brass “wool” pad thing (had mine so long I can’t remember the proper name or where I got it from)

Ian

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Just now, Ian Smith said:

Richard,

you need to keep the tip of the iron clean. A damp sponge is sometimes used for this but I prefer a brass “wool” pad thing (had mine so long I can’t remember the proper name or where I got it from)

Ian

I'm using damp sponge between (nearly) every touch, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.  The tip is pretty manky now, no shine to it at all.  Would it be wrong to buff it up with the fibreglass pen?

 

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Just now, Ian Smith said:

Richard,

you need to keep the tip of the iron clean. A damp sponge is sometimes used for this but I prefer a brass “wool” pad thing (had mine so long I can’t remember the proper name or where I got it from)

Ian

I'm using damp sponge between (nearly) every touch, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.  The tip is pretty manky now, no shine to it at all.  Would it be wrong to buff it up with the fibreglass pen?

 

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Hi Geordie Exile,

 

You also need to keep the end of the iron tinned.

Sometimes if the temperature is too high you loose the tinning and it will not pick up solder as you have described.

The tip will look dull.

I also found soldering against wooden surfaces quickly dirtied the tip so now use a mineral fibre soldering board which helps no end.

 

When tinned and working effectively the tip will look shiny.

 

My method (probably a thousand other better ways of doing it!) is to keep a small piece of brass (about the size of a penny) beside the workbench, Clean the iron as best you can, put a good dollop of solder and flux on the brass and hold the iron onto it the brass. Eventually the solder should melt and tin the end of the iron in the process.

 

Every time the iron loses its sheen, just apply the tip to the solder covering brass until the solder melts and the tip will re-tin.

You may have to add more solder to the piece of brass every so often (every couple of months or so depending on usage).

 

Hope that helps

 

Angus

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If you cannot get it back with wet sponge or whatever-name-of-the brass-wire-ball-thing that Ian and I have then one way to get it back is to use a tip tinner cleaner product. (They’re almost certainly bad for your health.) Place the cold tip on it and turn on shoving it in as it warms. Should come out nice and shiny. I think you already worked out that a shiny tip works best. 

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Yes, the wood may have put deposits on the tip.  

Another "tip cleaner" method, is to start with a cold iron, coat end with a reasonably generous amount of solder paint (eg. Carr's 188 if using lead-based solder), and turn on.  The flux boils, the solder melts, and should re-tin things.  Then gentle use of a tip cleaner to remove any excess.  

 

My usual cleaner is the "brass wool pad" type.     

 

The other thing to be concerned about is type of solder.  There are often problems if mixing lead-free with lead-based solders: basically don't mix the two.   My own preference is lead-based (good enough for hospitals and military).   

 

 

- Nigel

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Thank you @Caley Jim and @richbrummitt - I will confirm my exact requirements, but I imagine the Fencehouses adjustable underframe may cover my bases - and if not, I'll be in touch Rich.

 

Thank you for the advise also with regard to the ballasting/chair proposition. For my chosen prototype it seems that ballasting was up to the rail sides until the 1880's (when it fell out of fashion due to issues around checking chair keys, etc.) and then 'just' over the sleepers well into the first decade of the 20th century,. I really like the look of chaired track in a normal context, but if I'm going to be be ballasting over the sleepers I wonder if cosmetic chairs/blobs might be an easier option - particularly since only every 5th sleeper was uncovered for drainage/etc.

 

Cheers!

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Hi William,

the six wheel underframes Rich designed for me were primarily for the SDJR 31' coaches from Worsley but with a bit of clever design they can be built as 20' or 21' wheelbase. As usual I've used them on all sorts of things they weren't intended for!

I have a couple left if you want any though I would be reluctant to do another full sheet unless there was a call for them. PM me if interested. Rich is currently working on a 25' underframe for an SDJR milk van which the Antipodeans are designing that would be suitable for a host of NPCS so there may be scope for putting a couple more 6 wheelers on those sheets though I would have to ask Rich how that would work.

The 31' six wheel etch can be seen here,

 

 

Jerry

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More basic soldering advice:

 

1. If your soldering iron is not temperature controlled, it will just get hotter and hotter the longer it is left unused. When too hot, it will burn the flux before it has a chance to do any good.

2. A soldering iron bit that is bright shiney silver colour is plated, with a solid copper core. If you break through the plating (by filing or scraping) the pure copper inside will disappear rapidly. Older dark coppery coloured tips are a copper alloy which will last longer, but do not conduct the heat as quickly as pure copper.

3. A soldering iron is for heating up components to be soldered. It is not meant to carry solder to the joint (except the thin coating called tinning) as any flux in the solder will have disappeared long before it reaches the joint.

 

So, clean the tip, heat up the joint, add solder to the joint, remove the iron and clean the tip again.

 

 

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4 hours ago, queensquare said:

Hi William,

the six wheel underframes Rich designed for me were primarily for the SDJR 31' coaches from Worsley but with a bit of clever design they can be built as 20' or 21' wheelbase. As usual I've used them on all sorts of things they weren't intended for!

I have a couple left if you want any though I would be reluctant to do another full sheet unless there was a call for them. PM me if interested. Rich is currently working on a 25' underframe for an SDJR milk van which the Antipodeans are designing that would be suitable for a host of NPCS so there may be scope for putting a couple more 6 wheelers on those sheets though I would have to ask Rich how that would work.

The 31' six wheel etch can be seen here,

 

 

Jerry

 

Thank you Jerry - I am still firming up the specific wheelbases, but it looks like the LCDR used 15' for their 4w 26' coaches, and 18' wheelbases for their 6w coaches regardless of overall length (which varied from 26' - 30') . I've reached out to Bob at Fencehouses for his cleminson chassis, and it seems that David E. makes 19' w/b chassis already (which may be as good as is required, frankly!)  for approx £15pp - does anyone have experience with either? If I lean into this project then I'm probably in for a score or so of the blighters, all told - so ease of construction and reliability, as well as accuracy are important.

 

All the very best,

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6 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I've reached out to Bob at Fencehouses for his cleminson chassis, and it seems that David E. makes 19' w/b chassis already (which may be as good as is required, frankly!)  for approx £15pp - does anyone have experience with either? If I lean into this project then I'm probably in for a score or so of the blighters, all told - so ease of construction and reliability, as well as accuracy are important.

 

I built one Cleminson chassis from the Fencehouses etch. It does exactly what it is designed to do, which is get 6w coaches around tight curves. Crunching the numbers shows that this level of complexity is not required for short wheelbases such as yours on sensible sized radii (usual 2mm recommended minimums and above) that I guess you will be using. 

 

I noticed that David is on this forum recently so you should be able to contact him directly through this site. I would rather not speak for him since the status of his etches is sure to have moved on from what I knew of them from several years since. 

 

Where accuracy is important I'm increasingly doing my own thing. Unfortunately that means everything takes longer and or costs more to get the results. 

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7 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

 

Thank you Jerry - I am still firming up the specific wheelbases, but it looks like the LCDR used 15' for their 4w 26' coaches, and 18' wheelbases for their 6w coaches regardless of overall length (which varied from 26' - 30') . I've reached out to Bob at Fencehouses for his cleminson chassis, and it seems that David E. makes 19' w/b chassis already (which may be as good as is required, frankly!)  for approx £15pp - does anyone have experience with either? If I lean into this project then I'm probably in for a score or so of the blighters, all told - so ease of construction and reliability, as well as accuracy are important.

 

All the very best,

I used David’s etched underframes for my Worsley GWR 4 wheeled coaches (one built as a 6 wheeler). The underframes are really for David’s GER coaches so we’re not overly accurate for my coaches (but good enough for me). As I recall they went together without any trouble, brakes might have been a bit fiddly but I was pretty new to 2mm modelling when I put the rake together and it took me a while to get my eye in :D

Like Richard, I tend to draw up my own artwork for things I want now (6 wheeled coaches for example) where I have control of the accuracy and detail.

Ian

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Thank you @Ian Smith - it seems I'm going to need a good deal of coaches and underframes so maybe creating my own artwork or comissioning someone else to do so and getting them etched is a good shout - particularly as @justin1985 has also pointed out that etched bodies may also be more practical.  Is there scope to start a thread dedicated to discussing custom etches, design, artwork, comissioning, etc. on the forum, do you think? If not I'll post my question here - where would I start, assuming I have a line drawing of what I want to etch and a rough idea of how it should go together?

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22 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Is there scope to start a thread dedicated to discussing custom etches, design, artwork, comissioning, etc. on the forum, do you think? If not I'll post my question here - where would I start, assuming I have a line drawing of what I want to etch and a rough idea of how it should go together?

As I am also considering some bespoke artwork I would be very interested in something along those lines.

 

John

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1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

where would I start, assuming I have a line drawing of what I want to etch and a rough idea of how it should go together?

 

You'll need to learn CAD or some other drawing package first if you haven't already. You can usually import images into the program and trace over the drawing, but this is usually a very good way of finding the inaccuracies/inconsistencies in the original drawings! Better to work from direct measurements if possible, but that depends if you have the information or if what you want to reproduce still exists in full-size form.

 

Bob Jones (of Fence Houses fame) also ran an etching seminar for 2mm members some years ago, and produced a series of handouts. I'm sure he would be willing to email them to you if you asked nicely.

 

PPD Ltd (who a lot of 2mm modellers use for etching) have some useful guides on drawing for etching on their website, and Grainge and Hodder do a information pack for £3.

 

https://ppdltd.com/

https://www.graingeandhodder.co.uk/photo-etching1.html

 

There also used to be some very useful online guides from an Australian company called Hollywood Foundry, but they closed last year and the website has unfortunately disappeared. I think I've got a paper copy of at least one of their tutorials somewhere - I'll try to find it.

 

Also worth studying etches from various sources to see how people have tackled problems. 2mm modellers are very good at coming up with ways to make assembly easier - Stephen Harris's more recent wagon kits are excellent examples of this, and pretty close to origami in metal at times!

 

Andy

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15 minutes ago, 2mm Andy said:

There also used to be some very useful online guides from an Australian company called Hollywood Foundry, but they closed last year and the website has unfortunately disappeared. I think I've got a paper copy of at least one of their tutorials somewhere - I'll try to find it.

 

Still available from the wayback machine https://web.archive.org/web/20170424131149/http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/HowToPapers.shtm

 

There was also an article in the June 2013 2mm Magazine (members only link) http://www.2mm.org.uk/membersonly/backnumbers/2010s/2013/Jun2013.pdf#page=6 which has further links

 

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18 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Many thanks both - I'll be reviewing those eagerly.

Likewise, thanks.   I have a copy of Bob Jones' notes that he let me have back along and I am now searching my library(?) for the Journal article - it's there somewhere!

 

John

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I have only created one etch. It was a tough learning job, and finding the required software without paying out any cash was another problem. Moreso, now that one of the programs I used is no longer free.

 

I ended up using one program to draw, another to create a good quality render in PDF and another to do intermediate file type conversions.

 

Not sure I remember all the programs I used. DraftSight was the drawing package, and DWGTrueView was used along the way.

 

Fortunately, my first etch worked first time :D

 

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I was just caught out by "dry" Evostick causing a short across a motor.

 

I took the motor out of my Association chassis Jinty to hack a bit more off the worm end of its shaft, so I could shuffle it a few more mm forward, to hopefully make room for a DCC decoder behind it (without resorting to more body surgery).

 

The motor had been stuck on top of a narrow plasticard strip on top of the etched/PCB chassis using Evostick. So when it was ready to go back, on with more Evostick. I left it for about 8 hours to set, tried power, and got a short. After a lot of fiddling, including taking the brakes out of their wire insulation joiners to make sure they weren't creating the short, I concluded it was the Evostick that had oozed out from under the motor and touched the folded over parts of the etched chassis on both sides, and was then shorting via the motor case.

 

So, I guess Evostick that is neither "wet" or "totally solid", is conductive! 

 

But I think Evostick takes months, if not years, to end up totally totally dry rather than gummy / stringy? In which case I must have been lucky first time around!

 

Before I reinforce the motor mount with some thick CA, I just wanted to check that isn't also likely to be conductive?

 

I guess the real answer is I should have made sure the chassis was totally insulated around the motor body, with a sheet of paper or plasticard etc. I don't fancy prizing the motor out again on this one now though!

 

J

 

 

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