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4 hours ago, £1.38 said:

Jim and Don, have a proper look at the link I gave. The impression I get is that you are misunderstanding the concept. What is described there is a pretty common way of doing things, even in the likes of S7 and P4. It ensures that the blades fit snugly against the stock rails just like the prototype - and in my experience is an excellent way of doing things.

https://85a.co.uk/forum/view_post.php?post_id=19573

Not quite the same for modern times, where curved planing of point blades is now the norm. IIRC that only happened in the UK from the early 1960s though.

As I read that, the set is being put in the switch before filing the taper, which I entirely agree with.  I was understanding that, somehow or other, the set was being put in the switch after filing.  The set I was referring to was that in the stock rail, instead of a joggle, so that the switch fits neatly into it and remains at gauge along its length.

 

Apologies if I have mis-understood.

 

Jim

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Well that will probably do the job but doesn't sound protoypical to me especially extending the filing for 7 inches  over 40ft in 4mm.

Filing a bit of a chamfer on the inside of theblade top is what I would do to attempt to replicate an undercut blade.  The GWR favoured 'straight' end blades AFAIK especially in pre-group days so I just 'knock' the edge off.

Still If it looks good and works for you....

 

Don

 

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2 hours ago, Donw said:

Well that will probably do the job but doesn't sound protoypical to me especially extending the filing for 7 inches  over 40ft in 4mm.

Filing a bit of a chamfer on the inside of theblade top is what I would do to attempt to replicate an undercut blade.  The GWR favoured 'straight' end blades AFAIK especially in pre-group days so I just 'knock' the edge off.

Still If it looks good and works for you....

 

Don

 

 

Don, the 7 inches is a full size dimension (second sentence within the linked post), so needs scaling down as appropriate.

 

Andy

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On 12/10/2020 at 11:00, 2mm Andy said:

 

Don, the 7 inches is a full size dimension (second sentence within the linked post), so needs scaling down as appropriate.

 

Andy

I just can't believe the vitriol that has been generated by what was intended only as a helpful suggestion to Justin. It shows the principles of how to achieve a reliable point blade without requiring an unprototypical joggle, which seemed to be what was requested.

 

The description in the link is for (I think) a 7mm scale model which obviously requires a more engineering approach. I have always been able to reproduce mine using simple filing, which I find incredibly easy. The resulting pointwork has been very smooth running and reliable. It was never intended to be represented as the only way.

 

It has been twisted, misrepresented and criticised. I only began contributing to Rmweb again after a several year absence. There is no way I shall contribute ever again. Goodbye.

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43 minutes ago, Donw said:

What vitriol ?  We discussed the methods and what we understood was prototype practice. Isn't that part of what RMWEB is about.

Totally agree, @Donw.  I have sent him a PM asking exactly what he found offensive.  Whether he will respond is another matter.

 

Jim

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9 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

Totally agree, @Donw.  I have sent him a PM asking exactly what he found offensive.  Whether he will respond is another matter.

 

Jim

alas the written word is blunt and unlike face to face  meetings liable to misunderstandings

 

it calls for calm heads from all in strange times

 

Nick B

Edited by nick_bastable
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From Wikipedia:

 

"Mehrabian's findings on inconsistent messages of feelings and attitudes (the "7%-38%-55% Rule") are well-known, the percentages relating to relative impact of words, tone of voice, and body language when speaking."

 

The online forums users communicate only by using the words - there is no tone, nor body-language, so 93% of the message may have been lost.

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Hi,

 

Which axle lengths do I need to re-wheel a Dapol wagon?  If I’m using my callipers (coming tomorrow, weirdly excited!) do I measure the length of the whole Dapol axle including the points or do I have exclude the points?
 

Many thanks

Simon

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18 minutes ago, MrSimon said:

Which axle lengths do I need to re-wheel a Dapol wagon?  If I’m using my callipers (coming tomorrow, weirdly excited!) do I measure the length of the whole Dapol axle including the points or do I have exclude the points?

Measure the whole length over points.  That's the measurement for all axles (not that I've ever re-wheeled any RTR).

 

Jim

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I've got an Emco Unimat SL and I think I want to upgrade to a larger lathe for two reasons:

  1. The capacity is sufficient for most 2mm work, but insufficient for basically any other lathe work without major compromises
  2. The non-standard fittings make finding quality tools difficult.

As a small example,  2. is causing me issues because I can't find any quality collet chucks at a non-extortionate price with the Unimat M12 fitting, so I can't then use the lathe for wheel machining/etc. for 1. !

 

My thoughts were to offer this up for sale to the association/etc. and put the funds towards a 'Mini Lathe' that can machine larger work (I've always wanted to have a go with live steam for example, but the SL is just too small for even the tiniest Stuart), as well as open up avenues for more commonly available work holders, etc.

 

Before I go ahead though, I wanted to check that a mini-lathe isn't a false economy of quality - the machine will need to be at least capable of the finish and fine work as the Unimat! The last time this came up, it seemed that the Arc Euro Trade mini lathes (those with brushless motors, metal gears, etc.) were the best choice - The specific model I was considering was this: https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathes/SIEG-C3-SC2-SC3-Mini-Lathes/SIEG-SC2-SC3-HiTorque-Mini-Lathe-Belt-Drive-with-Brushless-Motor

 

Any thoughts or opinions gladly taken.

 

EDIT: If anyone has a source for a collet chuck for the Unimat then that might be a good shout, too!

 

Edited by Lacathedrale
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1 hour ago, MrSimon said:

Hi,

 

Which axle lengths do I need to re-wheel a Dapol wagon?  If I’m using my callipers (coming tomorrow, weirdly excited!) do I measure the length of the whole Dapol axle including the points or do I have exclude the points?
 

Many thanks

Simon


Dapol have always used a standard length of 15.2mm or let’s say that is what you need to fit. I don’t know if this is still the case with the latest stock. Peco have always used 14.8mm. Farish also used to use the standard 15.2’s but these days the length varies according to the particular wagon/coach and can be a bit of a minefield. This is why there are now so many different axle lengths produced.......  If only everything used 12.25mm........would be so much easier!

 

Izzy

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4 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I've got an Emco Unimat SL and I think I want to upgrade to a larger lathe for two reasons:

  1. The capacity is sufficient for most 2mm work, but insufficient for basically any other lathe work without major compromises
  2. The non-standard fittings make finding quality tools difficult.

As a small example,  2. is causing me issues because I can't find any quality collet chucks at a non-extortionate price with the Unimat M12 fitting, so I can't then use the lathe for wheel machining/etc. for 1. !

 

My thoughts were to offer this up for sale to the association/etc. and put the funds towards a 'Mini Lathe' that can machine larger work (I've always wanted to have a go with live steam for example, but the SL is just too small for even the tiniest Stuart), as well as open up avenues for more commonly available work holders, etc.

 

Before I go ahead though, I wanted to check that a mini-lathe isn't a false economy of quality - the machine will need to be at least capable of the finish and fine work as the Unimat! The last time this came up, it seemed that the Arc Euro Trade mini lathes (those with brushless motors, metal gears, etc.) were the best choice - The specific model I was considering was this: https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathes/SIEG-C3-SC2-SC3-Mini-Lathes/SIEG-SC2-SC3-HiTorque-Mini-Lathe-Belt-Drive-with-Brushless-Motor

 

Any thoughts or opinions gladly taken.

 

EDIT: If anyone has a source for a collet chuck for the Unimat then that might be a good shout, too!

 

 

It can be had/done:

 

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=72605

 

RDG tools have a 14x1 - 12x1 converter which might allow you to use a holder designed for the later U3/4.

 

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Well, I bought the only available M12 collet chuck available online and found it very wanting, and unfortunately I don't have access to a Myford to cut the thread or taper on my own collet chuck :( it is not wholly an issue of the collet however, also of capacity. I think if I could trade in the Unimat for an equivalent Sieg or Warco that had the same accuracy, but also the ability to machine larger work pieces, I would be happier.

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32 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Well, I bought the only available M12 collet chuck available online and found it very wanting, and unfortunately I don't have access to a Myford to cut the thread or taper on my own collet chuck :( it is not wholly an issue of the collet however, also of capacity. I think if I could trade in the Unimat for an equivalent Sieg or Warco that had the same accuracy, but also the ability to machine larger work pieces, I would be happier.

 

How big might you go with live steam?

 

People can do surprising things with a SL it is just a case of taking small cuts each time in many cases.  Yes some of the Chinese lathes can be good but don't really measure up to a myford but then look at the myford price.

If you have a local Model Engineering Society see if you can talk to some of the members and see what they recommend.

Don

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I switched from a Sieg lathe to a Taig (Peatol in the UK) and the Taig is much more refined (except for the large AC motor).

The Sieg lathes are a bit rough but work fine. I had a smallish one, the C1.

After a few years I replaced the spindle bearings with bearings from Arc eurotrade which were a huge  improvement. 

I was not happy with how the tailstock was made, the barrel was a bit sloppy in the tailstock casting and there is no proper solution to prevent it from turning. The clamping screw runs in the keyway and that is it.

Impossible to use with small drills, in the end I added an extra toolpost to the cross slide and mounted a small drill chuck on the second toolpost.

 

ER collet chucks for the Unimat are available from RC machines in Luxemburg:

https://www.rcm-machines.com/en/search?sSearch=collet%2Bchuck%2Bm12&p=1

 

Edited by Jan W
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I think one aspect worth bearing in mind is the size and weight of a 'larger' lathe. I am not sure how much larger you want to go, but bigger machines don't always have a much longer usable bed length or greater swing, and it's both you need to be aware of.  They soon become of a size that they need to be in a permanent and fixed place.  I don't think the Taig/Peatol is much larger, but the others mostly are. And size doesn't mean they are any more accurate, or even as good. Mostly the latter from what I can make out and personal experience. It's the circuit boards that are the biggest worry. Gone in a pfff..... £ 150-250 sir, what's your fancy? I ripped out the electronics on my little Sieg one and re-motored for a fraction of that when I was faced with this scenario just 18 months in.

 

The Unimat's by contrast are based on good basic lathe principles, the SL/2/3 like Myfords are 'basic' when it comes to control, which going by the previous is a good thing. The Peatol is the same. And easy to move around, well relatively anyway.

 

I do have larger stuff in the shed, Hobbymat precision at 45Kgs - lathe - and 70Kgs - mill/drill, but these haven't seen use in many years now. The 'little' Sieg one is much easier/quicker - and inside!

 

No easy answers probably but often it's better the devil you know than......

 

Izzy.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Any thoughts or opinions gladly taken.

 

Hi.

If I had realised you posted the same question in this thread I wouldn't have bothered replying to your PM and posted here instead!

 

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I do have larger stuff in the shed, Hobbymat precision at 45Kgs - lathe - and 70Kgs - mill/drill, but these haven't seen use in many years now.

Izzy.

 

I would very happily find a home for that lathe!

 

Julia :p

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@-missy- thank you for your help both via PM and here :) It seems that if I'm looking beyond 2mm then a 'benchtop' lathe rather than standalone is the best choice, but I hadn't factored in the need for a mill should I really want to get the fire going - which essentially doubles my outlay :( Opinions for 'one step up' seem to be fairly equally split between a 'Mini Lathe will do everything you need' vs 'Buy one up from a mini-lathe and you won't need to change in X years'. ArcEuroTrade don't do their 'fettling' service anymore, either :(

 

@Jan W thank you for the link. I think one of my options is to check out the ER20 collet chuck from there, but I guess I need to figure out exactly what I'd be doing.

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5 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

@-missy- thank you for your help both via PM and here :) It seems that if I'm looking beyond 2mm then a 'benchtop' lathe rather than standalone is the best choice, but I hadn't factored in the need for a mill should I really want to get the fire going - which essentially doubles my outlay :( Opinions for 'one step up' seem to be fairly equally split between a 'Mini Lathe will do everything you need' vs 'Buy one up from a mini-lathe and you won't need to change in X years'. ArcEuroTrade don't do their 'fettling' service anymore, either :(

 

@Jan W thank you for the link. I think one of my options is to check out the ER20 collet chuck from there, but I guess I need to figure out exactly what I'd be doing.


I think the problem is you can always find reasons for bigger power tools. As someone once said to me, a bigger lathe is always useful for sharpening bigger pencils. You can guess how long ago this was....  But it’s not just with the size of work that larger equipment scores, it’s the speed of working. So with time and patience small stuff can do the job in many cases. With a 1mm cutter in my mill I can’t cut faster than the cutter can cope with, so no more that in say, the little proxxon MF70’s featured hereabouts. But... I can stick a 1/2” slot/mill drill in and chew away at a rate that could take days with the MF70 to achieve.

 

As Julia says this is perhaps getting a bit OT for this thread.

 

Izzy

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11 hours ago, -missy- said:

Hi.

I would very happily find a home for that lathe!

 

Julia :p


I am not sure you would. It’s had a hard life and isn’t in the best of condition now, with many mods and really needs tarting up. I have long thought about moving the lathe and mill on as it’s all just too big/heavy for me these days, but had hoped to do so as a job lot. A lot of the basic tooling goes with both, e.g. all the chucks, 3/4 SC + PB indie mount on a fixture for the 4” rotary table for the mill and so on.

 

PM me if you’d still like any more info

 

Izzy

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8 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I think one of my options is to check out the ER20 collet chuck from there, but I guess I need to figure out exactly what I'd be doing.

You don't need collets to machine wheels. It's just quicker if hou have to do many (and of different sizes).

I usually chuck a piece of plastic rod, face it square and bore a hole in which the wheels are a press fit.

Chamfer the inside corner of the hole with a countersink so the radius of the flange doesn't sit against the plastic.

Use the tailstock center to press the wheel against the plastic, if necessary with a piece of rod between the center and the wheel if the center doesn't reach the wheel.

This gives a 100% true running setup without any chance of the chuck marking the thread.

Remove the wheel from the mandrel with your fingernails behind the flange or with a wooden or plastic rod through the spindle bore.

 

Of course you will need a collet if you want to machine the wheel face but then a small size collet is all you need.

 

Jan

Edited by Jan W
Autocorrect from Dutch keyboard :-(
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3 hours ago, Geordie Exile said:

Is it possible to re-wheel a Farish J94? 

 

Edit: I've just found @MrSimon's blog, so that's a yes!

 

You can either get the wheels turned down to 2FS standards, or there is an etched chassis kit (3-640 in the 2mm shop listings) to replace the Farish one completely. No drop-in wheels for this model as it is to an old design (unless you can find some of the old "Ballantine" wheelsets which were made many years ago).

 

Andy

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