Any Question Answered

[Caley Jim]

4 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

But I need some on YR tube station...

Can you still get Izal?

 

Jim (showing his age)

[Nig H]

Hi,

 

I have been making some Plate wagons (PECO bodies, Association etched chassis) and some loads to put in them. The loads are supposed to be ten metal plates per wagon, represented by 40mm x 12mm 5 thou plastic sheet. I have glued the sheets to four battons, the whole lot to be fixed inside each wagon. I'm wondering how in practice such loads would be secured together in a wagon to prevent the sheets sliding around. I've got some chain but the links (1mm long) look a bit big to me. Anyone any ideas for something realistic looking?

 

Nigel Hunt

[Yorkshire Square]

Would the load not be secured by flat straps? 

[65179]

4 hours ago, Nig H said:

Hi,

 

I have been making some Plate wagons (PECO bodies, Association etched chassis) and some loads to put in them. The loads are supposed to be ten metal plates per wagon, represented by 40mm x 12mm 5 thou plastic sheet. I have glued the sheets to four battons, the whole lot to be fixed inside each wagon. I'm wondering how in practice such loads would be secured together in a wagon to prevent the sheets sliding around. I've got some chain but the links (1mm long) look a bit big to me. Anyone any ideas for something realistic looking?

 

Nigel Hunt

Hi Nigel,

 

The Barrowmore MRG website is the go-to place for this sort of info. This document:

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Booklet_BR20426_Issue.pdf 

is one of several on loading, but is the only one I've found referring to plates. I'm assuming on the basis of this that packing timber etc would be used to stop the plates shifting.  Is there actually anything in a plate wagon to attach a chain to?

 

Simon

 

[Chris Higgs]

1 hour ago, 65179 said:

Hi Nigel,

 

The Barrowmore MRG website is the go-to place for this sort of info. This document:

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Booklet_BR20426_Issue.pdf 

is one of several on loading, but is the only one I've found referring to plates. I'm assuming on the basis of this that packing timber etc would be used to stop the plates shifting.  Is there actually anything in a plate wagon to attach a chain to?

 

Simon

 

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brplate

 

A few photos of plate wagons with loads tied down (and showing there are points to tie to).

 

Even a couple of photos of the interior.

 

 

[65179]

21 minutes ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brplate

 

A few photos of plate wagons with loads tied down (and showing there are points to tie to).

 

Even a couple of photos of the interior.

 

 

 

I should have been clearer. The loading document gives a min depth below the top of the sides that plate should be loaded to. That seems to preclude using any external points for securing chains/ropes. 

 

Simon

[Yorkshire Square]

2 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brplate

 

A few photos of plate wagons with loads tied down (and showing there are points to tie to).

 

Even a couple of photos of the interior.

 

 

 

It appears that BR used Plate wagons to carry anything other than plate... 

[Ian Smeeton]

I have been eyeing up a small stash of Stephen Harris Dia 1/108 16t Mineral kits, reading & re-reading the instructions.

 

Just about to put an order in to Shop 2 for the required bits to finish them before I start the build.

 

However, the only reference to buffers that I can see, is 'Buffers to choice'.

 

Having checked the Shop 2 listing, and the Barrowmore site for ideas, I see from the Diagram book that heads should be 1'1" diameter.

 

The only ones that I can see at that size is 2-072 or 2-078. Are these correct, or should I substitute something else?

 

Regards

 

Ian

Edited November 8, 2020 by Ian Smeeton
Posted too soon

[2mm Andy]

Ian,

 

There is a useful article on the 2mm website on the range of cast wagon buffers;

 

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/Association Buffer Range/index.htm

 

I guess it depends what period you're modelling, but I think 2-070 or 2-076 could be used on the 16 mineral wagons, and i've found photos of wagons on Paul Bartlett's wagons website with either of these types fitted. No doubt there are other 1/108 mineral wagons fitted with different buffer types out there.

 

Some of the instruction sheets on the 2mm website and elsewhere pre-date the introduction of the cast buffers, and I think the taster kit available from the website includes the 2-072 turned buffers.

 

Andy

Edited November 8, 2020 by 2mm Andy
clarification

[Valentin]

Based loosely on the Nigel Ashton's article in the Aug-Sep 2012 2mm Magazine, I try to make a scratch-built chassis.  The plan is to drill the axles holes in the frames and, in the same time, to mark the locations on the solid brass spacer for the axle muff openings.

 

To have everything perfectly aligned, shall I sandwich one frame between the other one and the brass block (as shown in the picture below), or have the brass block sandwiched between the two P/B frames?

 

 

[CF MRC]

Valentin, might I suggest the following:
Continue as you have started for the coupling rods and frames and make witness marks on the brass block with the small crank pin drill. 
Remove the frames and coupling rods, open up the frame axle holes to 1.5mm.
Drill the holes in the brass block for the axle diameter using the witness marks to centre the drill.

Re-assemble the frames either side of the brass block with 1.5mm diameter axle rods locating the frames on the block. 

Drill the frames and block tapping size for your bolts on each side. These do not have to line up across the block. Easier not to drill all the way through with a small drill. 
Remove frames and open up holes for fixing bolt & countersink. 
Open up holes in brass block to give generous clearance for muffs. 
 

This may seem long winded, but small drills can wander when drilling over a distance.  I presume you are using a pillar drill - if so use some cutting oil (or light oil) to lubricate the drill when working on the brass block and keep clearing it. Centre the drill by turning it backwards whilst under very light downwards pressure on the witness mark before drilling for real. 
 

Tim

Edited November 10, 2020 by CF MRC
Tips on drilling.

[Valentin]

Thank you very much, Tim, for the detailed instructions.

 

I am using a sort of pillar drill - actually a Proxxon MF70 milking machine fitted with some good quality drilling bits. I also have a Dremel rotary tool fixed into the Dremel 220 Work Station but I find this not to be very accurate when it comes to drilling very small holes. 

[Ian Smith]

20 minutes ago, Valentin said:

I am using a sort of pillar drill - actually a Proxxon MF70 milking machine fitted with some good quality drilling bits. 

Valentin,
That made me smile. 
 

I would agree totally with everything Tim said. When making my chassis, I don’t tend to drill very deep with a 0.5mm drill, effectively making enough of a hole as a pilot for centring a larger drill (small drills have a tendency to wander alarmingly in my experience).

 

When it comes to opening out the holes, I use the original drill (with the blunt end poking out of the chuck) to “find” the hole making minute adjustments of the hand wheels until it slides into hole without catching the edge of hole, then replace with larger drill bit to open out hole. The process is repeated for each hole that needs enlarging - I hope that makes sense.

Ian

[Valentin]

Thanks Ian. I just noticed the ‘milling’. LOL!!! I am typing these messages on my phone, using the “sliding keyboard” and the autocorrect function did what it always does 

 

I did experienced a lot the “wondering of the small bit” - a box full of broken bits can testify it... By the way, what use a broken drill or milling bit can have? Especially the ones with a bigger shank. 

 

[richbrummitt]

17 minutes ago, Valentin said:

Thanks Ian. I just noticed the ‘milling’. LOL!!! I am typing these messages on my phone, using the “sliding keyboard” and the autocorrect function did what it always does 

 

I did experienced a lot the “wondering of the small bit” - a box full of broken bits can testify it... By the way, what use a broken drill or milling bit can have? Especially the ones with a bigger shank. 

 

 

You can grind/stone the smaller ones up to make D shaped drills. You may be able to repurpose larger sizes as (form) tools for a lathe, if you have one and can hold them reliably. Finally they could possibly be repurposed as locating pins in your chassis?

[Chris Higgs]

1 hour ago, Valentin said:

Thanks Ian. I just noticed the ‘milling’. LOL!!! I am typing these messages on my phone, using the “sliding keyboard” and the autocorrect function did what it always does 

 

I did experienced a lot the “wondering of the small bit” - a box full of broken bits can testify it... By the way, what use a broken drill or milling bit can have? Especially the ones with a bigger shank. 

 

 

Provided you have a grinding machine, you can turn them into D shaped reamers.

[DavidLong]

On 08/11/2020 at 13:25, Ian Smeeton said:

I have been eyeing up a small stash of Stephen Harris Dia 1/108 16t Mineral kits, reading & re-reading the instructions.

 

Just about to put an order in to Shop 2 for the required bits to finish them before I start the build.

 

However, the only reference to buffers that I can see, is 'Buffers to choice'.

 

Having checked the Shop 2 listing, and the Barrowmore site for ideas, I see from the Diagram book that heads should be 1'1" diameter.

 

The only ones that I can see at that size is 2-072 or 2-078. Are these correct, or should I substitute something else?

 

Regards

 

Ian

Ian,

 

Andy has pretty much answered this for your purposes but I'll just add a few comments.

For all unfitted 16T mineral wagons 2-070 is the type to go for. Some were fitted with a 2-rib version but it was never widespread enough for it to be worthwhile producing the 2mm equivalent. In theory the wagons that had 4-shoe brakes and were vac fitted should have had 20.5" buffers (2-076) but, as far as I can see, this wasn't necessarily the case and you could stick with 2-070. These wagons were a bit of a minority until the rebodying programme increased their numbers.

The real variety is in the 8-shoe fitted variants and here you could use any of 2-078, 2-081 or 2-084. These look quite remarkable on such a short wagon; the latter two types adding 25% to the length of the vehicle!

Having spent more years than I care to remember on the wagon buffer project it does slightly wind me up that we sell the starter mineral wagon kit with the wrong buffers but I guess it comes down to economics and ease of production. Oh well, ho hum . . .

 

David

[Nig H]

On 07/11/2020 at 15:58, 65179 said:

Hi Nigel,

 

The Barrowmore MRG website is the go-to place for this sort of info. This document:

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Booklet_BR20426_Issue.pdf 

is one of several on loading, but is the only one I've found referring to plates. I'm assuming on the basis of this that packing timber etc would be used to stop the plates shifting.  Is there actually anything in a plate wagon to attach a chain to?

 

Simon

 

 

On 07/11/2020 at 17:25, Chris Higgs said:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brplate

 

A few photos of plate wagons with loads tied down (and showing there are points to tie to).

 

Even a couple of photos of the interior.

 

 

Thanks for your help. I think the plates can be left unsecured but packed out with bits of timber etc to prevent them moving around.

 

Regards,

 

Nigel Hunt

[Valentin]

On 10/11/2020 at 09:58, Ian Smith said:

[...]

 

When it comes to opening out the holes, I use the original drill (with the blunt end poking out of the chuck) to “find” the hole making minute adjustments of the hand wheels until it slides into hole without catching the edge of hole, then replace with larger drill bit to open out hole. The process is repeated for each hole that needs enlarging - I hope that makes sense.

Ian

 

Is it a wrong approach to open the holes up to 1.5mm manually? After drilling 0.5mm holes into the coupling rods and the frames, I detached the rods and enlarge the holes in 0.25 and 0.2 mm steps. I finished up with a 1.52mm drill and a smoothing broach. I ended up with three collinear holes.

 

There may be a need to open the holes more as the wheels don't spin freely - I will check again after the frames are fitted to the brass block spacer and the wheels connected with muffs.

[Ian Smith]

31 minutes ago, Valentin said:

 

Is it a wrong approach to open the holes up to 1.5mm manually? After drilling 0.5mm holes into the coupling rods and the frames, I detached the rods and enlarge the holes in 0.25 and 0.2 mm steps. I finished up with a 1.52mm drill and a smoothing broach. I ended up with three collinear holes.

 

There may be a need to open the holes more as the wheels don't spin freely - I will check again after the frames are fitted to the brass block spacer and the wheels connected with muffs.

Valentin,

I would think that opening up the holes manually is fine, especially if only opening up through say 0.5mm material - it's not too difficult to maintain perpendicularity (is that a word?) through thinnish material.  However, one side of my chassis blocks are 6mm thick, so for me it makes sense to do them on the machine as with the other side of the chassis bolted in place I'm going through around 7mm of brass and I know that I'd not maintain a truly perpendicular hole through that.

Ian 

[Caley Jim]

48 minutes ago, Valentin said:

There may be a need to open the holes more as the wheels don't spin freely - I will check again after the frames are fitted to the brass block spacer and the wheels connected with muffs.

The wheels won't spin freely if the axles are not perpendicular to the holes.  When I fit the frames, with their bearings, onto the spacers I then put a length of 1.5mm rod through each pair in turn and touch each bearing briefly with the soldering iron.  This trues up any mis-alignment due to the bearings not being quite properly seated in the frames.  Just a few thou is enough to make the wheels stiff.

 

Jim

[Valentin]

6 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

The wheels won't spin freely if the axles are not perpendicular to the holes.  When I fit the frames, with their bearings, onto the spacers I then put a length of 1.5mm rod through each pair in turn and touch each bearing briefly with the soldering iron.  This trues up any mis-alignment due to the bearings not being quite properly seated in the frames.  Just a few thou is enough to make the wheels stiff.

 

Jim

 

That's a very good tip! Unfortunately I cannot apply it on my chassis as there are no bearings  (the frames are 0.7 mm P/B).

[Valentin]

6 hours ago, Ian Smith said:

Valentin,

I would think that opening up the holes manually is fine, especially if only opening up through say 0.5mm material - it's not too difficult to maintain perpendicularity (is that a word?) through thinnish material.  However, one side of my chassis blocks are 6mm thick, so for me it makes sense to do them on the machine as with the other side of the chassis bolted in place I'm going through around 7mm of brass and I know that I'd not maintain a truly perpendicular hole through that.

Ian 

 

The thickness of two P/B strips held together is 1.4mm and i drilled the 0.5mm pilot holes using the milking milling machine. I can only hope that, by the time I manually opened them up to 1.5mm, they remained perpendicular to the frames.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Valentin

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, Valentin said:

 

That's a very good tip! Unfortunately I cannot apply it on my chassis as there are no bearings  (the frames are 0.7 mm P/B).

In that case I would gently run a 1.5mm reamer through each pair of holes.

 

Jim

[Geordie Exile]

Evening all. I need to add a decent smooth-jawed vice to my toolbox, specifically for folding etches. I've been making do with a pair of pliers, which are perfect for the smaller parts, but solebars and now the roof tabs on this Toad need more respectful treatment.

 

I'm looking for recommendations please. (The folding gadget on Eileen's Emporium seems hideously pricey)

 

 

Thanks 

 

Richard

Edited November 13, 2020 by Geordie Exile
Autocorrect!