Any Question Answered

[nick_bastable]

I think Nigel on the money as it looks like the bearings are sitting on a solder bed

 

still a great effort  my first few efforts hit the bin and when i look at my early finished efforts I do    but if I was to exacting I would have bu&&er all stock   

 

Nick B

Edited April 23, 2021 by nick_bastable
auto censor

[andreas]

Thank you for your help and encouragement. Without Nick Mitchell's video tutorial I would not have gotten close to a working chassis. As someone who had never used a soldering iron before, his basic soldering advice was particularly useful.

 

I followed your advice and bent the axle boxes slightly outward. One axle is running perfectly now, much better than a comparable Farish wagon. The other axle has also improved significantly but may still need a little more tweaking.

 

16 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Further to the comments from others on the wagon,  I wonder if the bearings are not quite into the frames far enough - they need to sit properly in the half-etched recess in the frame material.  

I think that was part of the reason. I remember struggling with the axle boxes. Perhaps I managed to unsolder the bearing cups. I should get myself different solder to try varying temperatures.

 

12 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

If you look at the chassis end-on, are the W irons parallel to each other, and square to the floor?

That may be the other reason. I noticed the floor is slightly bent upwards on one side.

 

You probably won't believe it, but the photos were taken after my attempts at cleaning the etch. I used DCCconcepts Sapphire No-Clean flux, which according to their website can be cleaned with "a simple wipe over with cloth or cotton bud dipped in Isopropyl alcohol or even methylated spirits". Well, the results in the photo are after a prolonged bath in IPA and a good scrub with an old toothbrush. That did at least take off the layer of copper oxide that had formed. I will try again with cream cleaner. Out of curiosity, what flux is everyone using? The DCConcepts flux worked well enough (not that I have anything to compare it to) even if it is not intended for brass work.

 

There is one little detail I have still to add to the wagon: the gussets under the strengthening ribs of the bodywork. They are so small it is difficult to see them in the video. I have checked pictures of finished wagons and the prototype but I am still struggling to understand how to get from the two etched parts to the final thing. They look a very different shape to me. Can you perhaps point me to a good picture that shows where the two pieces need to be soldered together?

 

Andreas

[Geordie Exile]

56 minutes ago, andreas said:

You probably won't believe it, but the photos were taken after my attempts at cleaning the etch. I used DCCconcepts Sapphire No-Clean flux, which according to their website can be cleaned with "a simple wipe over with cloth or cotton bud dipped in Isopropyl alcohol or even methylated spirits". Well, the results in the photo are after a prolonged bath in IPA and a good scrub with an old toothbrush. That did at least take off the layer of copper oxide that had formed. I will try again with cream cleaner. Out of curiosity, what flux is everyone using? The DCConcepts flux worked well enough (not that I have anything to compare it to) even if it is not intended for brass work.

Nice first attempt, Andreas, and certainly better than my first!  

 

I 'invested' (although I can't see me ever getting my money back!) in an ultrasonic bath, and I pop the etch in for its default three minutes every time I switch off the soldering iron (so bearings, clean, laminating solebars, clean, adding solebars, clean etc) then a longer zap at the end of a session.  It has made an immeasurable difference, and it's much easier to find the wee bits that fall off 

[Caley Jim]

5 hours ago, andreas said:

Out of curiosity, what flux is everyone using? 

I use Carrs 188 solder paint for all my etched kit construction.  This has its own flux in it, which I expect will be Carrs green label.  The other flux I use from time to time is good old fashioned Fluxite.  I clean by spraying with a kitchen cleaner, such as Cif (other brands are available), a scrub with a stiff artists brush and then a good rinse, all done in the kitchen sink - with the plug in, of course!

 

Jim

[Simon D.]

I have heard that while vinegar can be effective to clean etches and brass.

[Intraclast]

7 hours ago, andreas said:

There is one little detail I have still to add to the wagon: the gussets under the strengthening ribs of the bodywork. They are so small it is difficult to see them in the video. I have checked pictures of finished wagons and the prototype but I am still struggling to understand how to get from the two etched parts to the final thing. They look a very different shape to me. Can you perhaps point me to a good picture that shows where the two pieces need to be soldered together?

I am currently finding other things to do rather than attempt the gussets on my first wagon kit. I found this picture from a 2014 thread which might help.  You might have to zoom in a bit.

 

Your post makes me realise that I've not actually tested that my wagon rolls since I first tested it near the beginning of the build, I'm off to put the wheels in and check!

 

Mark

[1965Nick]

On 23/04/2021 at 12:35, andreas said:

Thank you for your help and encouragement. Without Nick Mitchell's video tutorial I would not have gotten close to a working chassis. As someone who had never used a soldering iron before, his basic soldering advice was particularly useful.

 

I followed your advice and bent the axle boxes slightly outward. One axle is running perfectly now, much better than a comparable Farish wagon. The other axle has also improved significantly but may still need a little more tweaking.

 

I think that was part of the reason. I remember struggling with the axle boxes. Perhaps I managed to unsolder the bearing cups. I should get myself different solder to try varying temperatures.

 

That may be the other reason. I noticed the floor is slightly bent upwards on one side.

 

You probably won't believe it, but the photos were taken after my attempts at cleaning the etch. I used DCCconcepts Sapphire No-Clean flux, which according to their website can be cleaned with "a simple wipe over with cloth or cotton bud dipped in Isopropyl alcohol or even methylated spirits". Well, the results in the photo are after a prolonged bath in IPA and a good scrub with an old toothbrush. That did at least take off the layer of copper oxide that had formed. I will try again with cream cleaner. Out of curiosity, what flux is everyone using? The DCConcepts flux worked well enough (not that I have anything to compare it to) even if it is not intended for brass work.

 

There is one little detail I have still to add to the wagon: the gussets under the strengthening ribs of the bodywork. They are so small it is difficult to see them in the video. I have checked pictures of finished wagons and the prototype but I am still struggling to understand how to get from the two etched parts to the final thing. They look a very different shape to me. Can you perhaps point me to a good picture that shows where the two pieces need to be soldered together?

 

Andreas

I  built the starter kit  a few months ago with the same sort of results - the axle boxes were the hardest part. I found solder paste for certain jobs but found the Chinese version of fluxite and reel of solder that came bundled with my soldering iron from Amazon much better. I use a toothbrush and a shower cleaner from Aldi to clean work up with with good results. Currently I’m building up association kits for BR Mark 1 coaches which are fantastic and offer a good challenge. 

[James Parker]

DG couplings - delay latch fouled by buffer beam

 

I tried to fit my first DG coupling yesterday only to find that, if set up using the jig, the delay latch was fouled by the buffer beam.  Taking some measurements on the jig, the delay latch hinge ends up 2mm to the rear of the front of the buffers whereas buffers on my B set are a shade under 2mm long and the buffer beam is bowed out.

 

Obviously I can easily fix this by moving the coupling 'forward' a bit, albeit ar the expense of an increased separation between the stock, or by notching the buffer beam, but are there any pearls of wisdom I should be aware of regarding locating DGs?

[2mm Andy]

7 hours ago, James Parker said:

DG couplings - delay latch fouled by buffer beam

 

I tried to fit my first DG coupling yesterday only to find that, if set up using the jig, the delay latch was fouled by the buffer beam.  Taking some measurements on the jig, the delay latch hinge ends up 2mm to the rear of the front of the buffers whereas buffers on my B set are a shade under 2mm long and the buffer beam is bowed out.

 

Obviously I can easily fix this by moving the coupling 'forward' a bit, albeit ar the expense of an increased separation between the stock, or by notching the buffer beam, but are there any pearls of wisdom I should be aware of regarding locating DGs?

 

2mm buffer length definitely sound on the short side - most 2mm scale wagon buffers are at least 1'6" (3mm) from buffer beam to buffing face and often longer (depending on the period). Is this the end of the B-set that is close-coupled to the adjoining coach? If so, I'd get rid of the DGs and fabricate some sort of simple hook and loop coupling as the full size B-set coaches were semi-permanently coupled. If it's the outer end then I'd replace the buffers with something longer (and more prototypical).

 

Andy

Edited April 25, 2021 by 2mm Andy

[andreas]

On 23/04/2021 at 20:33, Intraclast said:

I am currently finding other things to do rather than attempt the gussets on my first wagon kit. I found this picture from a 2014 thread which might help

Thank you for linking the thread. I remember seeing this one earlier when I had just started with the kit. I have to admit, even with zooming in, I am still not 100% certain how to assemble the gussets. I have the pieces and I know how the result should look like, but I cannot work out how to get from one to the other.

The picture also reminded me that I still need to learn how to best represent rust. So far my attempts have not been too convincing.

 

On a very different topic, is there anything I should know about underlay in 2mm? For context, my 'layout' is a small number of 2ft modules, without any pointwork for now. Perhaps unusually, the wooden baseboard is hidden under several layers of extruded foam, with the 9mm ply of the outside frame as the only wooden surface for tracklaying. With Peco code 55 I was planning to use 1.5mm cork stuck to the foam with Gorilla Glue and with Copydex to any of my bridges. However, a good number of threads here seem to recommend against cork. I imagine that is because of much tighter tolerances in 2mm?

[5944]

2 hours ago, 2mm Andy said:

 

2mm buffer length definitely sound on the short side - most 2mm scale wagon buffers are at least 1'6" (3mm) from buffer beam to buffing face and often longer (depending on the period). Is this the end of the B-set that is close-coupled to the adjoining coach? If so, I'd get rid of the DGs and fabricate some sort of simple hook and loop coupling as the full size B-set coaches were semi-permanently coupled. If it's the outer end then I'd replace the buffers with something longer (and more prototypical).

 

Andy

Dapol used short buffers on both ends of the B Set, so the outer ends definitely do need replacing. The inner ends aren't too bad, and aren't really visible if the Rapido couplings are replaced to make them closer coupled. 

[James Parker]

Re Andreas' question about underlay, for the layout I am currently building I used 0.8mm cork and stuck the trackplan (printed on thick-ish - 200gsm - paper) on top.  I would NOT do that again.  Basically the sandwich was two 'squishy' and there are several places where I struggled to get good vertical alignment between adjacent track sections.  Most of my track joints are 'overlapped' - the base and the rails split at different places - the overlapped joints are fine but just a few at the end of the more complex track formations are not overlapped and these caused trouble.  With some fiddling I have made it work, but its an exercise I wont repeat.  Others may of course have had better luck.

 

 

[James Parker]

Thanks 5944 and Andy, - I must check against my copy of 'a pictorial record of Great Western Coaches!

[Caley Jim]

Like @James Parker I wouldn't use cork as there are no benefits from it IMHO.  Kirkallanmuir is laid either direct onto the baseboard (in the sidings) or on 1mm card well glued down with PVA and then well sealed with the same.  The card was the stuff that you buy from Wild Swan as part of an envelope and comes with a free MRJ.  

 

Jim

[Intraclast]

@andreas I've just rewatched Nick Mitchell's video for the T-shaped gussets and had a go at one. He was not wrong when he said it was masochistic soldering! It took several attempts to get right and even then I'm not convinced. I only hope that by the time I've done the eighth I've got a bit better at it.

 

The key points I took from Nicks instructions:

1. The comma piece is the one that sits horizontal under the wagon (the top of the 'T'), the other is the vertical underneath it (the stalk of the 'T')
2. The two pieces go together curve to curve
3. You have to file it down a bit, because it sticks out a bit too far (I guessed how much, not a lot)
4. The thinner bit of the comma goes against the sole bar
5. The wider part of the comma hooks round the detail of the wagon. (The one I have done is round the edge of the buffer beam).

I've attempted to sketch it out in sketchup, looking at the sketch now, its not quite right as I've made the horizontal comma peice too long, it should be the same length as the other one, but hopefully its useful.

 

And here are some close up photos of my attempt:

 

 

I hope that helps. And please everyone, tell me if I've got it wrong before I do the rest.

 

Mark

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Intraclast
Removing extra photo.

[Royal42]

On 14/04/2021 at 17:54, Donw said:

..........So I would suggest ths shopping list

 

1-006  Code 40 Bullhead NS rail

1-025  PCB timber strip

1-160 or 1-161  Easitrac  Sleepers 8ft6in bullhead rail

1-208 planning jig 1:8 crossing

1-213  assembly jib 1:8 crossing

1-250  2 off   track gauge

1-313  1:8 turnout plan   

For pegged chair kits I would try 1-409 or 1-410

Hello Don,

 

the first half of my order, as per your suggestions, has arrived and they look very good.  I do like the rails and the bullhead sleeper, they slide together and fit very nicely;  I'm glad I have my Optivisor!  I also purchased a 10m Coil 1-003 as it looked to be good value.

My pension kicks in tomorrow so I shall get the rest on the list and prepare some assembly.

 

cheers,
Mike

Edited April 28, 2021 by Royal42

[Royal42]

I am just about to start threading my first rail into the Easitrac sleepers but I have what might be classed as a silly question.  My eyesight isn't so good, even with the Optivisor, is there a right way up for the track, or is it just the same top and bottom?

 

cheers,
Mike

[Ian Smeeton]

There is a right way up.

 

The thicker side is to the top. I find it easier if I use  a felt tip or marker and mark all the rails in one go.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Royal42]

Thanks Ian. 

 

Mike

[andreas]

On 26/04/2021 at 21:28, Intraclast said:

I've attempted to sketch it out in sketchup, looking at the sketch now, its not quite right as I've made the horizontal comma peice too long, it should be the same length as the other one, but hopefully its useful.

 

Thank you @Intraclast. I was secretly hoping for a drawing like this. Much clearer than any explanation. Now Hopefully I will find some time at the weekend to see just if I will manage to solder them.

[Chris Higgs]

On 25/04/2021 at 18:44, 2mm Andy said:

 

2mm buffer length definitely sound on the short side - most 2mm scale wagon buffers are at least 1'6" (3mm) from buffer beam to buffing face and often longer (depending on the period). Is this the end of the B-set that is close-coupled to the adjoining coach? If so, I'd get rid of the DGs and fabricate some sort of simple hook and loop coupling as the full size B-set coaches were semi-permanently coupled. If it's the outer end then I'd replace the buffers with something longer (and more prototypical).

 

Andy

 

A straight bufferbeam wouldn't go amiss either. Only in Dapol-world are GWR bufferbeams bowed.

 

Chris

[dpgibbons]

Is there a comprehensive list of replacement wheels/ chassis options for converting RTR N Gauge rolling stock please?

[Sithlord75]

9 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Is there a comprehensive list of replacement wheels/ chassis options for converting RTR N Gauge rolling stock please?

There are wheels for direct replacement for Farish, Dapol and Peco but I cannot remember which is which.  There are chassis which replace the Peco one - the tank chassis is particularly nice and makes a significant improvement. 

 

I am not aware of a comprehensive list - by which I assume you mean to replace chassis for Farish xxx-xxx use chassis x-xxx.

[dpgibbons]

Thanks Kevin. Just putting a shop 2 order together for a little 2FS test train.

 

With calipers I can see that Peco wagons take a 14.8/6 wheelset and Farish wagons are mostly a 15.2/6 so I'll get those two sizes. 

 

And I'll fit a couple of wagons with a Peco replacement chassis kit 2-382.  The instructions list a non-current axle part number - presumably it should be a 12.25mm axle set?

[Sithlord75]

38 minutes ago, dpgibbons said:

Thanks Kevin. Just putting a shop 2 order together for a little 2FS test train.

 

With calipers I can see that Peco wagons take a 14.8/6 wheelset and Farish wagons are mostly a 15.2/6 so I'll get those two sizes. 

 

And I'll fit a couple of wagons with a Peco replacement chassis kit 2-382.  The instructions list a non-current axle part number - presumably it should be a 12.25mm axle set?

Yes, the replacement chassis take the 12.25mm axles.