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On 03/11/2019 at 10:24, bécasse said:

I always use one of the Birchwood Casey "blues" - Super Blue, Aluminium Blue and Brass Black will all darken brass satisfactorily (the final resulting colour varies slightly but that isn't obvious on small items) providing that it is clean before the "blue" is applied.......

Which of these is best on n/s? and is the Birchwood Casey super black matt pen worth getting?

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=282&name=birchwood-casey-super-black-matt-pen&Itemid=189 .

 

Jim

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As per the suggestions in my Priory Road thread about blackening the OHLE bits I made here is the bottle of Casey's I use along with the bits after coating. This bottle I obtained from Eileens back in 2010 at Nottingham when I went to see Fencehouses and Leighton Buzzard (as Tony Gee was showing it). You can see that for me it's been quite long lasting.

 

218417986_RMwebOHLE25.jpg.f4e88edd81a34f78a9bd4321313fdc34.jpg

 

I always coat it on by brush and if it is washed off quickly all you get is what I believe is intended a slight brown tint as per antique brass. But, if you just leave it on, let the bits soak in stuff - I use it on a cutting mat and let them lay in what runs off, turning them over now and again, than it can go quite dark, almost black in places. As said it doesn't like N/S quite as much as brass, and solder even less so coverage can be patchy at times. Often another coat can deal with this if needed.

984785173_RMwebOHLE26.jpg.246d57712ecfb89140ab8098acfe6592.jpg

 

Izzy

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As you have doubtless found, nickel silver can be a problem metal for blackening and it seems to vary from one piece of n/s to another, either because the precise alloy composition varies or because the surface has become super-polished in the production process - I have found n/s strips to be a particular problem in this respect. Generally I have found the Aluminimum Black to be the most effective of the three on nickel silver.

 

I have no experience with the pen. I normally use an appropriately sized brush to apply whichever black I am using, but if I am trying to just blacken something very small (without blackening the surrounding metal) I use a cocktail stick.

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Thanks for the responses.  I knew Tim had recommended something, but I couldn't find where it was.  Having looked at that, I don't think I'll ever need a litre, so I'll order up the aluminium one from Eileens.

 

I've never used such products before, but thought I would try it to blacken the edges of parts of my 0-6-0ST.

 

Jim

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Query ref class 205 thumpers - I have ordered some worsley works etches from Allen Doherty which are on their way.  I understand the more recent farish 101 is a good starting point for the motorisation - has anyone completed one and are there any tips they could pass on? 

 

Guy

 

(anybody from the wealden group reading this will likely be in shock that I am considering doing something in 2mm)

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29 minutes ago, SandHutton said:

Query ref class 205 thumpers - I have ordered some worsley works etches from Allen Doherty which are on their way.  I understand the more recent farish 101 is a good starting point for the motorisation - has anyone completed one and are there any tips they could pass on? 

 

Guy

 

(anybody from the wealden group reading this will likely be in shock that I am considering doing something in 2mm)

excellent starting point

 

IMG_0938.JPG

 

my own 207 @ AGM running on BCNpetes  kyle of lochalsh 

 

check the 2mm worktop thread 

 

Nick

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On 30/11/2019 at 10:33, bécasse said:

..... Generally I have found the Aluminimum Black to be the most effective of the three on nickel silver.

On this advice I purchased a bottle from Eileen's and have applied it to some areas, mainly parts of the main chassis which might be visible, any vulnerable edges of the body (including the steps and the coupling hooks) and the 'ashpan' section of the rear compensating beams.  The results can be seen in this post on my '......Jubilee.......' thread.

 

Jim

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Hi All,

I am returning to the hobby after about 40 years, and I am planning a new layout. I have a few old N-gauge bits and pieces, but I would really like to have a go at 2mm finescale. However, one major stumbling block: I have never soldered before! So I am at the beginning of a very steep learning curve!

I have just applied to join the 2mm SA, and I will of course spend more time buying and reading the various publications.

 

However, in the meantime, could I please ask a few questions:
1) Obviously I am going to have to buy a soldering iron and associated bits and pieces, and get in lots of practice; from what I've read, it looks like the starting points will be to try soldering some simple pointwork, and a few wagon chassis. I know this first question is not really 2mm specific, but what type of soldering iron/solder/flux/paste/cream etc. would you recommend for a beginner in 2mm soldering activities? Or could you recommend somewhere good that I could read up on all this?

 

2) At some point I will want to run GWR steam locos. At the moment I have a 40+ year-old Farish 61xx and a Dapol 14xx. I think I know the answer to this next question, but can I please double-check: is the only option with these locos to wait until I have built up the skill/confidence to attempt to construct an association etched chassis? As far as I can tell, it is not possible to "reprofile" or "drop in" wheels on these locos. Is that correct?


3) Am I right in thinking that an N-gauge loco will run OK on plain Easitrac? I think so; so this would at least give me the chance to start to see some trains moving on a stretch of plain track, before I reach the point where I can convert the locos.

 

Finally, I would just like to say that I am full of admiration for all the 2mm modelling that you guys are doing, and also really grateful for all the 2mm products/services that you are now offering through the association - it is really inspiring!

Thanks all,
Ed

 

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2 minutes ago, MisterT said:

Hi All,

I am returning to the hobby after about 40 years, and I am planning a new layout. I have a few old N-gauge bits and pieces, but I would really like to have a go at 2mm finescale. However, one major stumbling block: I have never soldered before! So I am at the beginning of a very steep learning curve!

I have just applied to join the 2mm SA, and I will of course spend more time buying and reading the various publications.

 

However, in the meantime, could I please ask a few questions:
1) Obviously I am going to have to buy a soldering iron and associated bits and pieces, and get in lots of practice; from what I've read, it looks like the starting points will be to try soldering some simple pointwork, and a few wagon chassis. I know this first question is not really 2mm specific, but what type of soldering iron/solder/flux/paste/cream etc. would you recommend for a beginner in 2mm soldering activities? Or could you recommend somewhere good that I could read up on all this?

 

2) At some point I will want to run GWR steam locos. At the moment I have a 40+ year-old Farish 61xx and a Dapol 14xx. I think I know the answer to this next question, but can I please double-check: is the only option with these locos to wait until I have built up the skill/confidence to attempt to construct an association etched chassis? As far as I can tell, it is not possible to "reprofile" or "drop in" wheels on these locos. Is that correct?


3) Am I right in thinking that an N-gauge loco will run OK on plain Easitrac? I think so; so this would at least give me the chance to start to see some trains moving on a stretch of plain track, before I reach the point where I can convert the locos.

 

Finally, I would just like to say that I am full of admiration for all the 2mm modelling that you guys are doing, and also really grateful for all the 2mm products/services that you are now offering through the association - it is really inspiring!

Thanks all,
Ed

 

 

1.Soldering is a huge subject and nowhere as difficult as some people imagine.  You will get advice from all sorts of people on what iron to use.  I also work in 7mm so I tend to use a 40w temperature controlled iron and just change the bit size if needed. I would suggest that a soldering station might be worth going for.

For flux I generally use a phosphoric acid based one the Carr's green one I find good. However I have some made up to Ian Rice's recipe which was given to me by a friend which I mostly use. The Fry's Powerflux in the yellow pots is quite good but doesn't clean up as easily.

For soldering I use 150deg lead based solder or some 60/40 cored solder I have had for years. I much prefer the lead based solders as it flows better.

Quite often I will 'tin' pieces first which is putting a very thin coating of solder onto both parts you can then place them together and only need to apply heat. 

For large pieces I will use a small gas powered torch probably not needed much in 2mm

Ideally you could do with some coaching with someone showing how they would do it and then you having a go. If you can get to a club someone should be willing to help I certainly would but West somerset is a bit far away.

2.  Correct on the locos   

3. Yes. Making a small diorama with a plain length of easitrack would allow you to gain experience of making scenery and buildings in this scale also you could build association wagons with scale wheels and should be able to pull them with an N gauge loco as long as there are no turnouts.

 

Don

 

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Hi Ed,

 

Welcome to 2FS and to the Association.  I can only respond to your first question as I have never used N-guage stock.  My advice is to read up all you can on soldering, but I would very much agree with Don's advice and avoid lead-free solder like the plague!! 

 

You need three things for successful soldering (apart that is from solder!).  Clean metal, flux and plenty heat.  What you are doing with soldering is creating a surface alloy between the metal and the solder and then uniting these two layers of alloy.  For this you need the flux and the heat. I use a temperature controlled iron, ERSA RDS80, with a 2mm wide chisel bit, running at 300°C for most work.  The wide bit and high wattage gets heat in there quickly and reliably. Searching on line they are much pricier now than when I bought mine several years ago, but in my opinion and from experience it is well worth it.   Others may recommend a cheaper alternative.

 

For kit assembly etc I generally use Carrs 180° solder paint, which has the solder as a fine powder suspended in liquid flux.  Tinning, as Don describes, is not always necessary with this and you can produce really neat joints without too much excess solder, though I do also use plumbers solder where I want a fillet to reinforce the joint.  I also use paste flux (Fluxite) from time to time.  BTW, if you do get too much solder in a joint and want to remove it, it can be carved away with a sharp craft knife or scalpel as solder is much softer than brass or nickel silver.  You also need a thin layer of solder on the bit and a clean bit.  The best thing I've found for cleaning the bit is the 'pan scourer' type https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Soldering-Tip-Cleaning-Sponge-Industrial-Wire-Tip-Cleaners/182946/bn_7115759337 .

 

If you can get hold of some scraps of metal, I have stacks of etch fret surround and I'll happily post you some if you would like - PM me, then practice by soldering them together, edge to edge (to form an angle), edge to flat and 'sweating' them together, i.e. flat surface against flat surface.  You must let the iron dwell until you see the solder flow - DO NOT be tempted to give it a quick stab with the iron - and you then must hold the parts together until they cool below the melting point of the solder.  As Don says, it's not the black art that some would make out and practice and experience will soon dispel that myth.  Nickel silver is generally more user-friendly to solder than brass as doesn't conduct the heat away quite so quickly.

 

Having someone to mentor you to begin with would be a great help, so when you get your Association joiner's pack, look in the yearbook to see if there is an area group near you who will be only too willing to help.  but don't hesitate to ask questions either here or on the Association VAG.

 

Jim

 

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JUst to add something to Jim's excellent post. To remove solder you can make a 'Brass Chisel'  a suitable piece of brass such as the earth pin of a scrap plug file a chisel on the end and fix in a handle voila a brass chisel  you can use that to chisel away excess solder without any damage to etched nickel silver, on brass it may mark a little depending of the relative hardness of the chisel and the brass piece but much less so than a steel knife or chisel.

 

Don 

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3 hours ago, MisterT said:

At some point I will want to run GWR steam locos. At the moment I have a 40+ year-old Farish 61xx and a Dapol 14xx. I think I know the answer to this next question, but can I please double-check: is the only option with these locos to wait until I have built up the skill/confidence to attempt to construct an association etched chassis? As far as I can tell, it is not possible to "reprofile" or "drop in" wheels on these locos. Is that correct?

 

 

the wheels can be re-profiled by Gordon ( details in the yearbook you will get ) as that's how I got my first few locos working

http://2mm.org.uk/small_suppliers/wheelturningservice.htm

 

Nick

Edited by nick_bastable
link added

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2 minutes ago, nick_bastable said:

 

 

the wheels can be re-profiled by Gordon ( details in the yearbook you will get ) as that's how I got my first few locos working

http://2mm.org.uk/small_suppliers/wheelturningservice.htm

 

Nick

 

Yes, in principle they can be turned down.   But I really don't think its worth bothering with either a 40-year old Farish, or the 14xx (looks good, typically run badly).   The Farish has solid steam-roller wheels, and altering the flanges (all that can be done to the wheel) can't disguise this. 

 

The 14xx can have a new chassis fitted, but its not an easy one to do - they're notoriously difficult to get balanced in any scale, tending to be "tail heavy" and thus lacking traction.  It would not be my recommendation as a first chassis build.    The 61xx, maybe, but I'd say scratchbuilding a body is likely to be easier than improving the Farish appearance.    

 

 

For a 2mm steam loco, quickly, much better to get one of the current small Farish locos which will take the replacement hornblocks and wheelsets.  

 

 

- Nigel

 

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One “local” source of information about all manner of things in our scale is Nick’s fantastic series of videos covering a chassis build in all its detail. I learnt a vast amount watching these (repeatedly) and Nick offers much advice around soldering, tools and many other common techniques that even apply to GWR. You will find it here 

 

 

Cheers, welcome, and enjoy yourself.

 

John

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Hi All - Thanks for all the very quick replies, and the offers of help, and the overall welcome. :)

 

I will look into all the things that you have mentioned regarding soldering. And that series of "Nick" videos does look very interesting - I shall have to settle down and watch those some time! And for sure, when I get my joiner's pack, I will see who is near me and might be able to offer some practical help.

 

I see a few varying responses and suggestions about the locos, and to be honest it's left me a little confused about the best approach. However, it will be a very long time before I am ready to tackle any kind of work on a loco, so I guess I can think about this again in due course, see how my skills are progressing, and what I think I am happy to try tackling. 

Nigel - when you said "the current small Farish locos which will take the replacement hornblocks and wheelsets" which locos did you have in mind?

 

Thanks again for all the replies,

Ed

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On the subject of locos, why not get a proprietary diesel which will take drop in replacement wheelsets? That will get you something to run and test track with. You can then later replace the original wheels and dispose of it on a well known auction site or via the Association VAG. 

 

Jim 

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I would have suggested a small pannier but the wheels are temporary out of stock. However getting one now it could run a N gauge until suitable wheels are available or have the wheels turned down. I see Hattons have one in GWR shirtbutton or lined BR black. I must admit I never saw a lined one in BR black ( unless they were lined but too dirty. Trackshack list a lined green Farish 64xx. One of those would be fine in N  gauge to give you something that can run up and down and be good for a conversion later.

 

 

Don

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On 21/12/2019 at 13:44, MisterT said:

Hi All,

I am returning to the hobby after about 40 years, and I am planning a new layout. I have a few old N-gauge bits and pieces, but I would really like to have a go at 2mm finescale. However, one major stumbling block: I have never soldered before! So I am at the beginning of a very steep learning curve!

I have just applied to join the 2mm SA, and I will of course spend more time buying and reading the various publications.

 

However, in the meantime, could I please ask a few questions:
1) Obviously I am going to have to buy a soldering iron and associated bits and pieces, and get in lots of practice; from what I've read, it looks like the starting points will be to try soldering some simple pointwork, and a few wagon chassis. I know this first question is not really 2mm specific, but what type of soldering iron/solder/flux/paste/cream etc. would you recommend for a beginner in 2mm soldering activities? Or could you recommend somewhere good that I could read up on all this?

 

2) At some point I will want to run GWR steam locos. At the moment I have a 40+ year-old Farish 61xx and a Dapol 14xx. I think I know the answer to this next question, but can I please double-check: is the only option with these locos to wait until I have built up the skill/confidence to attempt to construct an association etched chassis? As far as I can tell, it is not possible to "reprofile" or "drop in" wheels on these locos. Is that correct?


3) Am I right in thinking that an N-gauge loco will run OK on plain Easitrac? I think so; so this would at least give me the chance to start to see some trains moving on a stretch of plain track, before I reach the point where I can convert the locos.

 

Finally, I would just like to say that I am full of admiration for all the 2mm modelling that you guys are doing, and also really grateful for all the 2mm products/services that you are now offering through the association - it is really inspiring!

Thanks all,
Ed

 

A few minor points to add to previous replies:

 

Area Group - Your nearest appears to be Oxford, but I'm not sure if it's still active.

 

Soldering - different people will offer slightly different suggestions. Personally I largely follow Jim's, but would add a couple of comments:

Continue to hold the soldered parts in place for a while after removing the soldering iron tip. This is where Bob Jones' suggestion of a third hand (preferably with asbestos fingers) would be useful! Clean thoroughly afterwards - I use an ultrasonic cleaner

 

Diesels For prototypical Western usage, Farish Class 24 or 25 would probably be a good choice for an easy drop-in wheel conversion. Similarly Class 20, but I don't think they appeared on the Western. Alternatively Dapol Class 22, but that would require the wheels to be sent off to Gordon for re-profiling. Likewise Warships and Westerns.

 

Steam Farish 64xx should be a good drop-in wheel replacement (when the wheels are back in stock), and there is a matching autocoach.

Also the Farish Castle, where the loco wheels should be in stock but I'm not sure what the tender wheel solution is - possibly sending off to Gordon.

Slightly more challenging is the Association solid brass chassis for the Dapol/Ixion Manor, but also suiting Dapol Grange and Hall. It can also be used for 43xx Mogul, where 3D printed body is available from other suppliers, and similarly the Saint.

Etched replacement underframes are available for most other GWR locos, including 14xx, 57xx, 28xx, 61xx, 45xx, either from the Association or from Members.

 

David

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2 hours ago, Gingerbread said:

 

Diesels For prototypical Western usage, Farish Class 24 or 25 would probably be a good choice for an easy drop-in wheel conversion. Similarly Class 20, but I don't think they appeared on the Western. Alternatively Dapol Class 22, but that would require the wheels to be sent off to Gordon for re-profiling. Likewise Warships and Westerns.

 

 

Also the Farish Castle, where the loco wheels should be in stock but I'm not sure what the tender wheel solution is - possibly sending off to Gordon.

 

 

David

 

I saw plenty of Class 20s in pairs at Cheltenham in my youth, heading (I guess) for Bristol and South Wales. Conversely, never saw a 24 on the Western, except when they all turned up to Swindon for scrapping! Class 25s there certainly were aplenty. Don't forget the Dapol Hymek.

 

If I were doing a steam loco, I probably would not start with a Castle as the larger the wheel diameter, the more tricky it is to get them to run true, expecially with the shortened muffs that the Farish conversions use. 

 

Chris

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Just noticed this in my stock box, is this normal? I don’t think it’s been exposed to anything nasty or heat, nothing else in the box seems to be affected.

 

TIA 

 

John

4E3DD6BD-2E1E-42A0-ABD4-12AEA0465198.jpeg

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Is it just the top of the sides which has bowed in, or does the bowing go all the way down, with the floor narrower in the centre?  If the latter I suspect it's been like that since it came out the mould.  Do you know it's origins?

 

Jim

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Posted (edited)

I’m hazarding a guess that’s a steel mineral wagon, possibly a Peco kit?

 

If it’s a plastic kit build they can be very prone to bowing inwards, although I’ve never seen one quite as bad as this. I think it’s one thing to do with stresses set up in the material originating in the solvent joins?

 

To quote 2mmMark’s post from another thread: “The 2-551 2mm RCH kit is capable of being made up into a decent looking model...  The assembled body does have a tendency to bow inwards but using a less aggressive solvent like Di-Limonene reduces this to almost nil.“ Obviously this is prevention rather than cure!

 

I have a couple of milder cases which I currently store with a fairly thick rectangular styrene “spreader” spanning between the tops of the long sides, and this does help prevent the inward bow. I’ll provide these wagons with permanent loads to do the same job in the fullness of time...

 

Jim

Edited by Jim T
Added ref to gentler solvents

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Thanks all. Yes it’s a 2_501a kit which I assembled using Revel Contacta Prof. So the theory probably holds about it being the glue. I may try and get a load in there and glue it square if warm water can soften it a bit?

 

Cheers John

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It may make sense to use a bit of balsa for a wedge to hold the sides apart for a few days while the glue hardens. 

Don

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