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If some natural disaster were to wipe away my modelling bench, my minimal shopping list for tools to get back to soldering basic Association wagon kits would be:

  • Antex 25 watt iron, with 1mm bit.
  • Soldering iron stand.
  • Brass wool tip cleaner.
  • 60/40 tin lead electrical solder.
  • Powerflow paste flux.
  • Swann Morton scalpel with No. 10 blades.
  • #4 cut Swiss file, pillar.
  • Stainless steel tweezers (MM).
  • Set of 6 small cutting broaches.
  • Small engineers square and 6" steel ruler.
  • Fine Garryflex block.
  • Wooden cocktail sticks.
  • Piece of hardboard, and maybe a couple of bits of planed softwood to attach to it.
  • Positionable lamp.

The above is entirely my personal preference. I'm sure plenty would cringe at my choice of solder and flux especially... but it works for me.

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I would add two items.  Carrs 188 solder paint and a silicon soldering mat.  There are loads of different ones on the internet.  One with lots of little tray compartments on it is invaluable for keeping track of all the little parts you remove from an etch as well as sub-assemblies.  They also have magnetic areas where you can put tools (when you remember to!).   The hardboard is still useful where you need a hard surface to press against while soldering.  A metal surface is also useful for cutting tags on - block of thick brass or steel, e.g. door catch plate or the like.

 

Jim

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Hi Dseagull,

 

That is the same soldering iron I have and it has served me well for the past couple of years.

I set the temperature dial to about 325, this seems to work best. 

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16 minutes ago, Argos said:

Hi Dseagull,

 

That is the same soldering iron I have and it has served me well for the past couple of years.

I set the temperature dial to about 325, this seems to work best. 

Using different solders with a variety of melting points I find that setting the bit temperature of a temperature-controlled iron to about 100°C above the relevant melting point is a good norm, although there will be occasions when you need to set a temperature higher or lower than that. Given their low cost relative to the cost of a temperature-controlled set up, I also recommend buying a complete set of different size bits, typically there are six of them for an Antex iron. Although there are unlikely to be many occasions when you need the larger bits for 2FS work, if you do need a large bit for a particular job it will enable you to complete the soldering (or unsoldering!) without overheating the job.

 

Incidentally, you can also use a temperature-controlled iron to "weld" thermoplastics, sometimes useful in modelling but even more useful in repairing full size thermoplastic tools and the like.

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The power flux works fine. I used it a lot when working as a plumber. It can be more difficult to clean it all off especially in corners. It can then cause problems with painting. I suspect Nick is meticulous about cleaning it up. I tend to prefer a liquid flux. Either way a small cheap brush is useful for applying a wipe of flux . 

I quite like using 150deg solder It doesn't need much heat as the joints seem quite strong enough. But I also have a reel of electrical solder which will do just as well.

If you go into Poundland they usually have reading glasses for sale. If you dont need them a weak pair say +1.5 will give you useful magnification but also shield your eyes. If you do use reading glasses normally just buy a stronger pair for modelling. At £1 a time you dont have to worry about them. 

Wooden clothes pegs can be usefull to hold bits together you can trim the tips with a knife to make them narrower. David Eveliegh has done some useful articles on ways on holding bits and pieces in the 2mm Mag well worth looking through the back issues. I made a simple corner from a couple of bits of ply and a piece of wood. post-8525-0-29159000-1433230460_thumb.jpg

 

This is one I use for larger scales but a 2mm one need not be that much smaller. It can be used when gluing as well as soldering.

 

Don

 

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Thanks all, a lot of useful information there. Unfortunately the hoover now needs replacing, so will have to wait until payday, but I will start to put together a soldering toolkit within the next couple of weeks - and join the Association as well.

 

 

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Can anyone give me an idea of the normal sort of express speed of an LMS/Midland Compund 4-4-0?

I have done an internet search and found max speeds, service speeds and data on many other locos, (mainly Great Western), but can find nothing helpful for these Compound 4-4-0's.

Thanks

Oli

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Historically, you can think of 60 mph as being a good speed for a steam-hauled express train.

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19 hours ago, oily said:

Can anyone give me an idea of the normal sort of express speed of an LMS/Midland Compund 4-4-0?

I have done an internet search and found max speeds, service speeds and data on many other locos, (mainly Great Western), but can find nothing helpful for these Compound 4-4-0's.

Thanks

Oli

 

 

 

The below table was quoted in an article on Midland Locomotive Performance by John F Clay & J N C Law in the November 75 Railway World. Best I can find.

 

Bill

 

image.png.3d1f66edb9d248d0a8911033b8eeeea7.png

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For me, the outstanding performance in this table has to be that of CR No.733 climbing the 1:75 Beattock incline at an average speed of almost 40mph, (presumably without assistance in the rear, as the times are pass-pass) with an ihp/ton of locomotive weight of 20.1.

 

But then, of course, I'm biased!:)

 

Jim

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22 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

For me, the outstanding performance in this table has to be that of CR No.733 climbing the 1:75 Beattock incline at an average speed of almost 40mph, (presumably without assistance in the rear, as the times are pass-pass) with an ihp/ton of locomotive weight of 20.1.

 

But then, of course, I'm biased!:)

 

Jim

 

I'm pleased it has made someone happy. ;)

 

Bill

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On 15/05/2020 at 14:07, dseagull said:

Further to my previous question(s), the starter pack has now arrived, and enthusiasm remains high! - was very impressed with the 'Getting Started' book which explains things very well, my compliments to those involved in its creation.

 

One more if I may; Would this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07Q4T12PH/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2NRY4HOWAHJOF&psc=1 - be a suitable soldering iron/set to get me started?

 

Thanks

 

 

It may be too late, but careful putting the plastic elements together. The instructions tell you to put the buffers on at the same stage, but if you do you won't be able to fit the chassis on. Leave them until later.

 

Curiously, someone raised the issue in one of the very early pages of this thread, which I also stumbled across today. I'm about to start my first soldering project, which just happens to be the 2fs starter pack, and (lo and behold) there's the perfect discussion on what tools and toys I need right here. The god of small things is smiling on me today.

 

Richard

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Thank you all for anwering my query on MR Compound locomotive speeds.

Now I can work confidently on a gearbox ratio.

Oli

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In order to ease myself back into 2mm modelling - I have got two wagon bodies assembled from Shop2 - 2-528 "GWR 5 Plank Open Dia 03 and 3 Plank Open Dia 05, 021: Twin Pack " - and I have two of the 2-361 DC-braked 9' underframe. The instructions for the underframe provide various options for DCI, DCII, and DCIII braking both fitted and non-fitted and with cross brakes or without.  These wagons are intended for a 1942-47 period layout - is there a simple answer or which brake gear configuration to build that would be most typical for either open wagons at this time period?

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2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

In order to ease myself back into 2mm modelling - I have got two wagon bodies assembled from Shop2 - 2-528 "GWR 5 Plank Open Dia 03 and 3 Plank Open Dia 05, 021: Twin Pack " - and I have two of the 2-361 DC-braked 9' underframe. The instructions for the underframe provide various options for DCI, DCII, and DCIII braking both fitted and non-fitted and with cross brakes or without.  These wagons are intended for a 1942-47 period layout - is there a simple answer or which brake gear configuration to build that would be most typical for either open wagons at this time period?

 

Quite a complicated subject. I will try to point you in the right direction for further research.

 

Don's link to the relevant page on the gwr.org site is useful, and also useful would be a couple of articles on GWR DC brakes in the 2mm magazine by Richard Brummitt in June and August 2014.

 

The 5-plank O3 is relatively straightforward. Initially fitted with DCI brakes, as covered in the gwr.org article, by 1940 the brakes would probably have been adapted to comply with Board of Trade regulations.

 

The O5 is more complicated. Firstly a typo has crept into the shop listing - it should be 4 plank, not 5 plank. Over 20,000 4-plank wagons were built by the GWR from 1888 to 1902, of which only the last 500 were given the O5 diagram, and these were indeed built with DCI brakes. The remainder were built before the diagram number system was introduced, with "normal" single-sided lever brakes, were initially not given a diagram number, but most survived to the 1930s and were allocated the diagram number O21 as they were upgraded to comply with the brake regulations by addition of a second independent brake lever on the "other" side.

 

Hope that helps

David

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Thanks both ! @Pixie I did look at the link - but was hoping for a simple answer - clearly that's not the case. @Gingerbread, I guess I'll build as DCI and accept them as unusual survivors? The kit doesn't come with parts for the DCI with the independent extra brake handle, DCIX is meant to be rare and DCIII was all replaced by 1930...

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Out of curiousity, it seems that the 2010ish Farish dual-motored 101 was the default donor for powered bogies for multiple units of all kinds, particularly when much of the stock was on clearance - but now I can't find any for less than about £100 even used - is there a current recommendation that's more affordable?

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1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

Out of curiousity, it seems that the 2010ish Farish dual-motored 101 was the default donor for powered bogies for multiple units of all kinds, particularly when much of the stock was on clearance - but now I can't find any for less than about £100 even used - is there a current recommendation that's more affordable?

 

Tomix and other far-eastern motor units may work.  You have to look up bogie centres, bogie wheelbase, and wheel diameter.   To an extent you can mix/match parts around Tomix mechanisms, so swap wheels, and sometimes swap bogies.

Usually simpler to buy Tomix from abroad and pay the postage. 

 

I don't have a definitive way to convert to finescale.   I think it may be possible to skim the wheels, and turn off the flange, then push a 2mm tyre onto the wheel face.  Very rough estimates suggest it will come close to correct back-to-back, and further measurements required.   If that works, its a simple turning operation.   

 

Tomix mechanisms usually run extremely fast on 12v.  Much better on lower DC voltages. 

Or, if fitting DCC, use a decoder (eg. Zimo, CT) where you can turn down the assumed track voltage, and still leave the speed curve for tuning later.  eg. on Zimo, I've set CV57 to about 35 to tame a Tomix mechanism for someone recently.

 

This webpage lists a lot of Tomix mechanisms:
http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/chassis_dim.htm

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Tomix and other far-eastern motor units may work.  You have to look up bogie centres, bogie wheelbase, and wheel diameter.   To an extent you can mix/match parts around Tomix mechanisms, so swap wheels, and sometimes swap bogies.

Usually simpler to buy Tomix from abroad and pay the postage. 

 

I don't have a definitive way to convert to finescale.   I think it may be possible to skim the wheels, and turn off the flange, then push a 2mm tyre onto the wheel face.  Very rough estimates suggest it will come close to correct back-to-back, and further measurements required.   If that works, its a simple turning operation.   

 

Tomix mechanisms usually run extremely fast on 12v.  Much better on lower DC voltages. 

Or, if fitting DCC, use a decoder (eg. Zimo, CT) where you can turn down the assumed track voltage, and still leave the speed curve for tuning later.  eg. on Zimo, I've set CV57 to about 35 to tame a Tomix mechanism for someone recently.

 

This webpage lists a lot of Tomix mechanisms:
http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/chassis_dim.htm

 

 

 

In my experience the 4 wheel chassis go like rockets but the bogie chassis look more sensible. 

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Posted (edited)
On 02/06/2020 at 19:02, Lacathedrale said:

Thanks both ! @Pixie I did look at the link - but was hoping for a simple answer - clearly that's not the case. @Gingerbread, I guess I'll build as DCI and accept them as unusual survivors? The kit doesn't come with parts for the DCI with the independent extra brake handle, DCIX is meant to be rare and DCIII was all replaced by 1930...

 

What period exactly do you want to represent? Only about half of the DC1 braked wagons were actually marked for conversion as the rest were scheduled for withdrawal at the conversion date (1939)  specified by the Ministry of Transport but then some at least would have lingered on because of the war. 

 

The conversion order for wagons with a brake lever on only one side was earlier than that for wagons that had a brake lever both sides but not on the right hand end (DCI for example).

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

What period exactly do you want to represent? Only about half of the DC1 braked wagons were actually marked for conversion as the rest were scheduled for withdrawal at the conversion date (1939)  specified by the Ministry of Transport but then some at least would have lingered on because of the war. 

 

The conversion order for wagons with a brake lever on only one side was earlier than that for wagons that had a brake lever both sides but not on the right hand end (DCI for example).

 

Chris

 

Read this thread. 

Photos of a DC1 wagon with a DCIII-like conversion to cross-cornered. Looks like you can build this hybrid from the etch.

 

Chris

 

 

Edited by Chris Higgs

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Perfect both, thank you.

 

4 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Tomix and other far-eastern motor units may work.  You have to look up bogie centres, bogie wheelbase, and wheel diameter.   To an extent you can mix/match parts around Tomix mechanisms, so swap wheels, and sometimes swap bogies.

Usually simpler to buy Tomix from abroad and pay the postage. 

 

I don't have a definitive way to convert to finescale.   I think it may be possible to skim the wheels, and turn off the flange, then push a 2mm tyre onto the wheel face.  Very rough estimates suggest it will come close to correct back-to-back, and further measurements required.   If that works, its a simple turning operation.   

 

Tomix mechanisms usually run extremely fast on 12v.  Much better on lower DC voltages. 

Or, if fitting DCC, use a decoder (eg. Zimo, CT) where you can turn down the assumed track voltage, and still leave the speed curve for tuning later.  eg. on Zimo, I've set CV57 to about 35 to tame a Tomix mechanism for someone recently.

 

This webpage lists a lot of Tomix mechanisms:
http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/chassis_dim.htm

 

 

 

Nigel, thank you so much - for the standard 62'6" SR chassis with a 46'6" bogie centre and 8' wheelbase, it looks like I'm out of luck - the TM-09 and TM17 are either sold out, or close to Farish prices.

 

Is it feasible to construct a motor bogie from components (for us mere mortals, that is :)) - I have a Unimat so effectively a lathe, mill and a drill press - but all the gear and no idea...

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55 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Perfect both, thank you.

 

 

Nigel, thank you so much - for the standard 62'6" SR chassis with a 46'6" bogie centre and 8' wheelbase, it looks like I'm out of luck - the TM-09 and TM17 are either sold out, or close to Farish prices.

 

Is it feasible to construct a motor bogie from components (for us mere mortals, that is :)) - I have a Unimat so effectively a lathe, mill and a drill press - but all the gear and no idea...

 

Changing the bogie centres is fairly simple - cut the chassis to one bogie, slide it in/out to the required bogie centres, bond in new material to hold it, and lengthen/shorten one drive shaft.  The electrical pickup strips will need altering to suit the length.  Compared to building one from scratch, that's a doddle.  So, the £30 options may work if one with a suitable bogie wheelbase can be found. 

Also if searching, search for both Tomix and Tomytec as the brand name. 

 

Clearly building a chassis is possible.   Essentially need to adapt/copy commercial designs, gear all the wheels together, bring it up to a worm drive, and have a drive shaft with a universal joint out to a motor.   Hardest bit, in my view, is pivoting the bogie on the chassis.   One method was written up in the old "split frame chassis book" which I edited something over 20 years ago. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Changing the bogie centres is fairly simple - cut the chassis to one bogie, slide it in/out to the required bogie centres, bond in new material to hold it, and lengthen/shorten one drive shaft.  The electrical pickup strips will need altering to suit the length.  Compared to building one from scratch, that's a doddle.  So, the £30 options may work if one with a suitable bogie wheelbase can be found. 

Also if searching, search for both Tomix and Tomytec as the brand name. 

 

Clearly building a chassis is possible.   Essentially need to adapt/copy commercial designs, gear all the wheels together, bring it up to a worm drive, and have a drive shaft with a universal joint out to a motor.   Hardest bit, in my view, is pivoting the bogie on the chassis.   One method was written up in the old "split frame chassis book" which I edited something over 20 years ago.

 

Thanks Nigel. I have another DMU on my 'to do' list and have been wondering what to do for a chassis without paying through the nose to cannibalise an RTR model.

 

My first ever DMU kit used a heavily butchered Lifelike GP40 chassis as per the instructions but the 2 axle drive never really worked very well and in my ignorance I had chosen a Calder Valley DMU anyway. I still have the bits somewhere.

 

The second used a Kato chassis from MG Sharps. The wheels are modified  (de-insulated) 1980s vintage 2mm Association coach wheels. It runs really well but the bogie wheelbase is quite wrong.

 

Green Max chassis were recommended for a while but these seem to have been unavailable for ages. A pity because they did a 17mm wheelbase bogie.

 

Unfortunately 17mm seems not to be an option for the Tomytec bogies but I might have to live with that - I dont intend this project to turn into an epic.

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