Any Question Answered

[Southernboy]

Hello 2mm experts,

 

Please excuse my N gauge incursion into your area - but I hope you may be able to help me.

 

I'm planning to build an N gauge LSWR 3-Sub from a Worsley Works (Scratch-Aid) kit, and my big stalling-point is how to motorise it.

 

The reason I have come to the 2mm area is because I'm sure you'll have an appreciation of the difficulties of sourcing small-scale motors to fit non-standard requirements.

 

I've posted the following message in the 'Kitbuilding and Scratchbuilding' area of the forum

 

 

Any advice or experience you can share with me will be very much appreciated.

 

Thank you

 

 

Mark

 

 

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Hello everyone,

 

As some of you may know, I bought a Worsley Works etching of a LSWR 3-Sub some while ago, and it is now time to build it in early Southern Railway guise.

 

In respect of how the finished unit should look I feel reasonably confident: I have quite a number of drawings, photographs and reference books, and will use Phoenix Precision Paints. The livery will be early SR.

 

If anyone is interested, the set is made up of the following (with page numbers referring to drawings in Brain Goulding's book 'A Pictorial Record of Southern Electric Units').

 

 

DMBT (p34)

49' TC (p37)

 

 

DMBC (p35)

 

 

 

And here's a couple of things I'm not quite sure about ...

 

 

The etching for the lower half of the cab-front has been made in small, vertical strips. I guess this is to help form the curve of the cab. What will be the best way to form this? Should I tin the area with solder first and then use the heat of the iron to melt it all together and then file it to smooth/round it of off? I guess some sort of pre-shaped wooden-former would be helpful with this?

 

And then there are the bogies / springs / axle-box parts of the etching. What's the proper way to approach these? I've never done this before!

 

 

---------------------------------

 

Overall I am very excited about this project - but at the same time have next-to-no experience with constructing brass etches. In this respect I hope I can draw upon the knowledge and experience of forum Members to help see me through my first attempt.

 

But before I go any further there are a couple of other issues I need to resolve, and I hope you will indulge me as I go through my train of thoughts - any suggestions are welcome:

 

MOTOR:

 

This is a stalling point before I can proceed:

 

As far as I can see I have two options:

1) A motor in the trailer carriage.

2) A motor in the driving unit, hopefully concealed within the guards compartment, and not protruding into the driver's cab.

 

But I can't readily find anything that suits ...

 

For the trailer:

The bogie wheelbase needs to be a scale 8'. I thought about using the chassis from a commercially available N gauge diesel or electric loco - but none seemed to match wheelbase and overall length (scale 49') - and neither did any look like they could be adapted.

 

For the driving unit:

I could do as I did before with my Farish hack job and use the motor from a proprietary DMU, but that is a very expensive and wasteful indulgence to discard everything else just for the sake of a motor ... and longer term I'd like to find a more elegant and consistent solution to motorising my EMUs rather than one-off 'smash and grab' jobs unique to each unit. Like Henry Ford - I like standardisation - it just seems to make sense.

 

For the driving car I can't use a motor from a diesel or electric loco because the driving bogie wheelbase is 8.6", but the non-driving bogie is 8'.

 

So I've been looking at motor units alone, and found two options:

 

1) http://www.nigellawton009.com/MPD18.html

 

2) http://motorbogies.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_16&products_id=1

 

Option 2 seems ideal for my purposes - I can have whatever suits me - but the bespoke option means I I have to wait 6 months (Yes, 6 MONTHS!) for delivery - does anyone know how to circumnavigate this? (Palms I can oil? Back-handers in brown envelopes? People that can be, erm, cough, disheveled a little bit in order to get quicker delivery?)

 

btw - the internal height and width of the units is more-or-less 14mm square. So whatever means of motorising I go for needs to fit within this space.

 

TRANSFERS:

To my knowledge no one now makes transfers for pre-war Southern passenger stock. If anyone can suggest a reliable and willing supplier of bespoke transfers I'd be much obliged if you would let me know.

 

 

PAINTING:

I once had a (failed) attempt at making a 4-Lav. It was painted by hand and I was very pleased with the finish (even if I do say so myself). But what are others thoughts on hand-painted v. airbrushing ??

 

Here's a picture to give you an idea ...

 

 

Half of me quite likes the notion of hand painting (as the originals were - it has a certain quality to it) ... but as with everything in this post, I am looking for the more experienced amongst you to guide me through this project if you don't mind.

 

SOME DETAILS:

I'm fairly confident about sourcing the remainder of detail items for this build - but two things I'm not sure about are Grab Handles and Door Handles - can anyone suggest a source?

Similarly, the doors are not etched into the sheets so will need scribing. Can anyone suggest a good tool for this purpose?

 

 

Apologies for this being a long post with so many questions - but I'm sure once I've been 'kick-started' into this job the it will obtain it's own momentum

 

Many thanks in advance for any replies,

 

Mark

Edited January 6, 2013 by Southernboy

[Kris]

In terms of the Bull Ants if you scour ebay you'll be able to pick up a farish DMU for less which would make that a more cost effective route.

[Donw]

If you are tempted by projects such as these you may wish to consider joining the 2mm Scale Association those who work in N gauge are welcome. It will give you access to some useful parts and information. I feel that if you are not used to etched kits doing a couple of wagon kits first might build up your skill and confidence. You may also find a member who has re-motored a loco and has a Farish motor/bogie spare for a reasonable sum.

Don

[queensquare]

Hi Mark,

 

I've put some thoughts in your kit and scratchbuilding thread. I would very very much endorse Don's thoughts regarding joining the 2mm Association and having a go at a couple of etched wagon kits.

 

Jerry 

[Pixie]

Hi Mark,

 

Welcome to the area - you're more than welcome to join in (*Pssst* Anyone got a membership form? *Pssst*)

 

A couple of thoughts from me...

 

For the drive unit I would either look at one of Bernard's (Taylor Precision Models - TPM) motorising kits and adjusting the length to suit (There's some information here - http://www.tpmodels.co.uk/1611.html) or perhaps the power unit from one of the new generation Farish units. The latter is a great piece of design and is a standalone motor/drive shaft/bogie unit which clips into their chassis plates. I've recently bought a couple of the Express Parcels 101 units (http://www.ehattons.com/38741/Graham_Farish_371_503_Class_101_2_car_DMU_BR_blue_grey_Express_Parcels_motor_in_each_car_/StockDetail.aspx) as both vehicles are powered giving up two sets for motorising projects. I'll grab a photo if this is of interest? The bogie wheelbase is 8'6'', which I is suitable for the driving bogie if I've read your message correctly.

 

Painting is one of those things I hate so I keep trying to take the pain out of it - I've used Halford aresol primers a lot (I'd suggest placing the tin is tepid water before use) and these give good coverage with low detail loss. Top-coat areosols I'm not too keen on as they either apply too much colour and/or give a poor surface finish, so I tend to use a cheap airbrush (something similar to this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-MINI-AIR-BRUSH-KIT-ARTIST-CRAFTS-AIRBRUSH-/260549428969?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item3ca9f4c6e9). Brush painting can be OK with decent brushes - something like these are quite good for modelling: http://www.fredaldous.co.uk/art-shop/art-supplies/artists-brushes/daler-rowney-simply-brushes.html. I should probably add that the manufacturer is my delightful employer - although I'm at no gain if you go out and buy them.

 

Cheers,

 

Pix

[Southernboy]

Firstly to say thank you for all your feedback - I'll be digesting / researching suggestions over the next few days and will be back with any further questions / news of progress.

 

And secondly you'll be pleased to hear that I've been a Member of the 2mm Association for the last four or five years and have both taken advantage of the shop and been much impressed by the magazine articles too.

 

Also I attended the exhibition at Oxford a couple of years back where I was hugely inspired by the high standard of modelling on your layouts.

Despite being N gauge, much of the work on Frankland stems from the fine example you ladies and gentlemen set me.

 

Edited January 7, 2013 by Southernboy

[Tony Simms]

Despite being N gauge, much of the work on Frankland stems from the fine example you ladies and gentlemen set me.

 

There's no despite about it; Frankland is one b|00dy awesome layout! An inspiration to anyone working in the smaller scales regardless of track standards.

[Etched Pixels]

I'd second using the new Farish motor bogies. If you check Hattons you'll find the Parcels DMU pair is available on the bargain pile and handily contains two motorised vehicles.

 

For the curved domed bits which are lots of small bits of brass I'd be tempted to bin them and use filler. Life is too short to solder together zillions of little segments of brass in 2mm scale for what in finish terms is unlilkely to be any different from carefully filled/polished joins. For that cab however it looks ok and it ought to just shape nicely and then solder up from behind. Still need filler but will be a fair bit stronger.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Etched Pixels

[Southernboy]

Well many thanks to one and all for replies. 

 

I've spent a week thinking about this now and have come to the conclusion that the 101 DMU Parcels Express is probably the best option.

 

Reasons being:

 

The BullAnt Power Bogie turned out to be too wide.

 

The Nigel Lawton option (self assembly) is interesting and one I'd like to try sometime.  It actually looks relatively straightforward to construct - but requires '...ideally ... a mini drill in a drill stand or press'. You can use a mini drill and a vice, but either way I think those are investments for another day. 

 

I did look at the TPM Motorising Unit before - but can never quite bring myself to buy second hand motors - at least not from complete strangers.  

 

 

Thank you also for feedback on methods of painting and construction, also much appreciated.

 

If anyone is interested in further progress I've started a dedicated thread here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66512-n-gauge-lswr-3-sub/

 

 

With thanks again for your much valued help.

 

Mark

[TheCromptonParkinson]

This is probably pretty basic for a 2mm question, but I guy has got to start somewhere, I brought my first ever N gauge wagon after chatting to the lovely lady on the 2mm demo stand upstairs at St Albans this weekend. I was wondering what axle size I need to order from the 2mm society to replace the wheels is it 14.80? It's a peco WR vent van, here is a pic after I had a little go at weathering tiny tiny style, it needs some 3 holed discs too (I think).

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Oly

[Tim V]

Just made up a length of track using scrap Peco standard code 80 rail soldered to copper clad sleepers, rails set at 9.42 using my trusty vernier. Made quite sturdy track.

 

Got me thinking, has anyone used this rail in say the staging roads? Now I know the head profile of the Peco rail is awful (I believe it's round), but is it viable in that circumstance?

[Chris Higgs]

Just made up a length of track using scrap Peco standard code 80 rail soldered to copper clad sleepers, rails set at 9.42 using my trusty vernier. Made quite sturdy track.

 

Got me thinking, has anyone used this rail in say the staging roads? Now I know the head profile of the Peco rail is awful (I believe it's round), but is it viable in that circumstance?

 

I once built a 2mm/N fiddle yard traverser using both 4mm bullhead rail and 4mm copperclad sleepers, on the basis it would be much more robust. The copper-clad was well spread out. Worked fine. Not sure I would bother with Peco rail when there are cheaper and easier alternatives about.

 

Chris

[-missy-]

This is probably pretty basic for a 2mm question, but I guy has got to start somewhere, I brought my first ever N gauge wagon after chatting to the lovely lady on the 2mm demo stand upstairs at St Albans this weekend. I was wondering what axle size I need to order from the 2mm society to replace the wheels is it 14.80? It's a peco WR vent van, here is a pic after I had a little go at weathering tiny tiny style, it needs some 3 holed discs too (I think).

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Oly

 

I wonder who that was then

 

As for wheels, try 2-007, they are 3 hole wheels on a 14.8mm axle (to suit PECO wagons). You have done a great weathering job on the wagon too, it does look nice.

 

Missy

[TheCromptonParkinson]

I wonder who that was then

 

As for wheels, try 2-007, they are 3 hole wheels on a 14.8mm axle (to suit PECO wagons). You have done a great weathering job on the wagon too, it does look nice.

 

Missy

 

 

Julia being Missy, all makes sense. I'm pretty stupid at connecting 2+2! Thank you for your help, didn't want to order the wrong axles. 

 

Thanks again,

 

Oly

[c2c]

Another N Gauge question, can anyone tell me what the regular or most common platform width's should be?

 

Dave

[queensquare]

Another N Gauge question, can anyone tell me what the regular or most common platform width's should be?

 

Dave

 

As you live in South East England you could measure one in your area.

 

Jerry

[Donw]

Probably wider than you think I believe 12ft was the minimum allowed. Often on models the length is compressed so narrower platforms look ok. However we usually need less compression in 2mm so Jerry advice makes sense just pace some out.

Don

[2mm Andy]

According to the diagram in the 2mm Yearbook (based on Ministry of Transport guidelines 1950), 6ft from platform edge to the nearest  edge of the building was the minimum. Logic should dictate that busier stations would have wider platforms to cater for the larger numbers of people, but various other factors come into play as well.

 

Andy

[c2c]

Sorry I must rephrase my question, what I meant was: What is the common or popular platform size that is used in 2mm or N Gauge layouts?

[Pixie]

Hi C2C,

 

The short answer is that there probably isn't one and any common size would just be a statistical anomaly caused by what's available in ready-to-plonk or kit form. I'd of thought that people either build what fits the space available or what he prototype dictates. That said, if you asked me to sketch out a width, I'd probably draw it out at about an inch and a half. No idea why, probably it's based upon the memory of my first N gauge layout.

 

One thing I can suggest is Google Earths measuring tool - means you can do a bit of site research from the comfort of your sofa and have some rough figures to work with.

 

Pix

Edited February 4, 2013 by Pixie

[richbrummitt]

The platform on my layout is a scale 290' long and the width varies from what you are probably thinking of as 'common' to the back of the yard.  

 

Some of the wayside stations must be no more than 6'-8' from platform face to fence.

[c2c]

Hi C2C,

 

The short answer is that there probably isn't one and any common size would just be a statistical anomaly caused by what's available in ready-to-plonk or kit form. I'd of thought that people either build what fits the space available or what he prototype dictates. That said, if you asked me to sketch out a width, I'd probably draw it out at about an inch and a half. No idea why, probably it's based upon the memory of my first N gauge layout.

 

One thing I can suggest is Google Earths measuring tool - means you can do a bit of site research from the comfort of your sofa and have some rough figures to work with.

 

Pix

 

Great answer Pixie can't think why the hell I didn't think of that before!  It's always the same when you have a head scratcher the obvious is never at the top of the check list.

 

Anyway thanks again and of course to the other forumites that have offered advice

 

DaveH

[oily]

Just seen an etch for the Dapol/Lima Siphon underframes which looked very impressive. But I gather they come without any instructions and I'm not sure I'd know how to build one. Is there anywhere that I could find guidance or an instruction sheet on how to assemble one? Maybe someone has already written it up or made up something similar and written it up?

Thanks

Oli

[D869]

Just seen an etch for the Dapol/Lima Siphon underframes which looked very impressive. But I gather they come without any instructions and I'm not sure I'd know how to build one. Is there anywhere that I could find guidance or an instruction sheet on how to assemble one? Maybe someone has already written it up or made up something similar and written it up?

My etches just dropped onto the doormat this morning so I doubt whether anyone has actually built one yet other than perhaps Chris Higgs himself.

 

If you look on the shop 3 catalog on the Association web site you will find some links to instructions for some of Chris's other kits, for example an LMS bogie, the BR CCT van and the Mark 1 coaches. None of them is exactly what you want but they should give you the general idea.

 

Regards, Andy

[RBE]

I assume this is the right place for this question judging by the title. On my new foray into N gauge/2mm scale I am hoping to use some rather tight curves off scene in order to minimise the space taken up by fiddle yards and the railways access to them. What is the minimum radius that diesel locos and associated stock can get around running on code 40 rail? I don't think I want to go full 2mm scale as the cost of replacing all of my stocks wheels is a daunting prospect (buying an £80 loco to then not be able to run it until I've shelled out an extra £30 for wheels is a bit of a down side really) so will for now be running standard RP25 wheel sets but I do want to build my track and use code 40 rail similar to how I chose fines scale rail but stuck with 16.5mm gauge on Outon Road in order to look the part.

 

Cav