Any Question Answered

[MrSimon]

Thanks Don and Rich,

 

I’ve had a bit of a fettle and added the tie bar and it seems to have done the trick - I can push the 060 through without it sticking now

 

Since taking this I adjusted the curved blade slightly and now there isn’t a gap between the blade and stock rail.  Tomorrow I’m going to test it electrically and see if I can run something through.

 

Thanks again 

Simon 

[Caley Jim]

I'd suggest that the check rail on the curved road is a little longer than it need be. They generally ended opposite the end of the wing rail, unless there was another crossing immediately beyond, either in a crossover, or a tandem.

 

jim

[MrSimon]

Hi Jim,

 

It’s definitely a little long, I’m still unsure whether there will be another point right at the end.

 

Today I checked all the gaps were fully cut through, then I lashed up some wires and track to give it a better test:

 

 

It worked well, and I could run the tank through

 

Now to finish the tank (and build more track)

 

Thanks for all your help!

Simon

[A. Bastow]

Maybe a bit of a loaded question... but to those who use DCC which systems do you use, which have you used and what would you recommend? 

 

I am looking at getting a starter set to get going on DCC rather than using conventional DC control. I have been looking at the NCE power cab, but the Lenz and Prodigy Advance systems also look interesting. I guess I'm after some real world advice from people who have used them as opposed to someone who is trying to sell it to me. 

 

Cheers,

 

Adam

 

[Ian Morgan]

I went for the Merg DCC Command Station and handsets, mainly on price for a fully functional system. Cheap, ready-made systems, which may match the price of a Merg system, tend to be lacking in function, address range, etc. You do need to be handy with a soldering iron though, and have basic electrical/electronic knowledge to build them. Especially the handset which has a lot to fit into a small case. The system interfaces with JMRI and Rocrail so you can expand and use mobile phones and tablets.

 

I do like the Merg handset though. I can use one hand to control a train and select routes with my other hand in my pocket, unlike the NCE 'brick' that I would not like to carry for very long. The Merg handset fits neatly in the palm of your hand.

 

 

If you need to restrict yourself to ready-built systems, think about what you want to be able to do now, and what you might want to expand to in the future. Try before you buy is useful, but not so easy at the moment without access to shops, clubs and exhibitions.

 

Good Luck.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Ian Morgan
re-loaded image

[Caley Jim]

I have the Digitrax system with a Zephyr master unit.   I prefer the lever speed control to the type which requires you to press buttons to alter the speed.  Inputting the address of the loco you wish to drive is also a straight forward matter of keying in the number (plus another couple of button presses).   I also have a Sprog and JMRI, so I do all my programming with that.

 

Jim

[richbrummitt]

I have a ZTC. Similar rationale to Jim. I don't think I would recommend it though. It is big and relatively old and expensive. My birthday presents included a SPROG but I haven't used it for anything yet. Need to finish a loco first. 

[Donw]

All the systems have there pros and cons. I started with a Lenz system but have used others. However at one point supplies seemed hard to get and when I realised the cost of one Handset could be more than the whole MERG system I joined up and built the command unit, the handheld cab and a usb module. I find the MERG handset very good as Ian says.

While thinking about the MERG option I also found DCC++ and DCC++Ex on the internet. I have two units the DCC++ using a UNO and a Motor shield  cost about £13  two wires to connect up to connect the two up. I had a 15v DC PSU to hand. Plug the computer into the UNO with JMRI load and you have a  working DCC system  capable of £1.5A output. The DCC++EX is just an updated (well largely written version) I used a MEGA  and a 298HN motor shield you just push the two together and it works. Uses the same PSU. There is an online support team all volunteers who are most helpful. You can use a Rasberry Pi instead of your computer and add wifi throttles.  It may not be as sophisticated as the best system but for a toe in the water to see how you get on and understand waht you need BEFORE lashing  out HUNDREDS on commercial systems. I would recommend it as worth a try.

Don.

 

PS you can borrow the DCC++ just for a tryout if you want to pay postage

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Donw

[nick_bastable]

Agree the MERG handset is very user friendly

 

Nick B

[bill-lobb]

19 hours ago, A. Bastow said:

Maybe a bit of a loaded question... but to those who use DCC which systems do you use, which have you used and what would you recommend? 

 

I am looking at getting a starter set to get going on DCC rather than using conventional DC control. I have been looking at the NCE power cab, but the Lenz and Prodigy Advance systems also look interesting. I guess I'm after some real world advice from people who have used them as opposed to someone who is trying to sell it to me. 

 

Cheers,

 

Adam

 

 

I went for the Powercab on the basis that it was not too expensive but allowed full programming unlike the other starter price systems. I didn't want to buy a full system and then find I didn't like it. The tradeoff is that it only allows one other throttle to be added, but that is not an issue for me.

 

Bill

[Sithlord75]

Another vote for the PowerCab.  I was convinced about 10 years ago having been to a DCC talk which included four or five systems then popular because it was a full enough package to start and easy to add if I wanted to go bigger (I haven't needed to so haven't but I can take the throttle to my MRC and use it which is handy - I joined the club some years after getting the PowerCab).

[A. Bastow]

Thanks for the replies folks. 
 

I would have put an order in for a PowerCab but there seems to be a global shortage on them! 
 

I hadn’t heard of MERG before and I am not sure my electrical knowledge is up to scratch. If it’s connecting ready done circuit boards then I can probably manage it, but if it’s full assembly from base components then it’s beyond me for now.

 

I have kind of solidified on what I’m after though. I’m after something that I can walk around with (wireless), with 4 digit addresses, that can deal with altering CVs. The controller should have a potentiometer/knob to turn to alter speed. 
 

It might be the case that what I’m after doesn’t exist (usually my case when it comes to modelling). 

It appears that more research is needed before I put my hands in my pockets. 

 

Cheers!

 

Adam

[Ian Morgan]

My son has the Roco z21 (the white one, not the black Z21) which seems a capable system. Can be used with a smartphone, or the wlanMaus wireless controller with a rotary knob.

 

I see a complete z21start set with maus for £145 on eBay at the moment. I don't know how good that is.

 

[Donw]

8 minutes ago, A. Bastow said:

Thanks for the replies folks. 
 

I would have put an order in for a PowerCab but there seems to be a global shortage on them! 
 

I hadn’t heard of MERG before and I am not sure my electrical knowledge is up to scratch. If it’s connecting ready done circuit boards then I can probably manage it, but if it’s full assembly from base components then it’s beyond me for now.

 

I have kind of solidified on what I’m after though. I’m after something that I can walk around with (wireless), with 4 digit addresses, that can deal with altering CVs. The controller should have a potentiometer/knob to turn to alter speed. 
 

It might be the case that what I’m after doesn’t exist (usually my case when it comes to modelling). 

It appears that more research is needed before I put my hands in my pockets. 

 

Cheers!

 

Adam

 

The questions of wireless cabs depends on whther you are happy to use a phone as your cab or you want a handheld one.

 

Phone cabs generally work through either a added Wifi board to the system or via  a USB link.  Some enable you to control more than one loco or operate turnouts from a diagram. Of course you do not have a physical knob for the throttle.

 

Handheld wireless cabs are usually specific to a system  and are usually quite an expensive option. Also you may need to check whether it is legal in the UK different coutries have different bandwidths available. The NCE wireless is not approved for use in the UK you may however get away with it particularly if in a remote location

 

One problem with anything based on Wifi/ Bluetooth or others in the 2.4GB range is that bandwidth is now become crowded. There are reliable ources that have found Wifi based systems unuseable at a major show. I have also heard the same for Digitrax.  For home use it may depend on where you are just how many other devices are using the bandwidth including mobile phone companies who when their networks get busy dump traffic onto the 2.4GB band.

 

Personally I do not like using a phone for a start some touch screens seem to wilfully misunderstand my actions any judder dragging a finder across can be taken as a definite click.  So I wanted to have some cordless handsets. However having seen the price of just an additional handset for the gaugemaster used in my club and the price for a cordless system. I looked around. The MERG system doesn't currently offer a cordless handset but you can use a phone via a usb link. I also found that someone had built a wireless handset for DCC++  using 433Khz ( the one probably used by your car keys.  I thought I would try that myself but wanted a better handset (in my view) so I have built a test rig and been coding it up just adding some extra bits.  I am then thinking I could adapt this to work with the MERG system which I will be doing. The MERG system has the walkabout facility where a cab can be moved to a different socket while running a loco which I use meanwhile

 

You mention being able to do CVs etc. There can be a problem with doing this on a big system as service mode programming can lock up the Wifi while waiting for an ACK which can be a problem on a club or exhibition layout. There is also a concern that things could get corrupted over Wifi. So I would prefer to do that over a different link. Besides if you also have a USB link the JMRI Decoder Pro offers an easier way to set up CVs than using a handset. 

 

It is worth yourwhile looking at the MERG system the Command station and the Cab come as complete kits with instructions. The current Cab has some small components to solder but nothing alarming to a 2mm modeller.  Plenty of help and advice available.

 

Don

[nick_bastable]

5 hours ago, A. Bastow said:

 

I hadn’t heard of MERG before and I am not sure my electrical knowledge is up to scratch. If it’s connecting ready done circuit boards then I can probably manage it, but if it’s full assembly from base components then it’s beyond me for now.

 

 

 

Adam

MERG kits come with great instructions and although the hand controller is a a bit fiddly even I managed to make it work first time (well worth investigating) with my  numpty knowledge of electrics 

 

https://www.merg.org.uk/merg_resources/dcc.php

 

 

 

Nick B

 

 

[A. Bastow]

@Donw & @nick_bastable

I have had a look at the MERG stuff, and quite a lot of it seems like another language to me, but I do like the look of the handset. The ability to unplug the controller and move it around without interruption does sound nice as well. It does seem very daunting though. I can design a (simple) circuit and make it work but it does seem very technical - which I suppose is why the guides and forums exist. 

Does MERG produce an equivalent of the frog juicers? If so then I might be tipping toward that one over any of the boxed sets. I have no clue on what kits I'd need to get started though - presuming base station, handset and power supply?

 

Adam

[Ian Morgan]

Merg do not have a kit for a frog juicer, as the idea of allowing a short circuit that then causes the switching of the frog goes against the principles held by many electrical and electronic engineers. Merg members have come up with, and published in the Merg Journal, some alternative solutions which may become kits one day. In the meantime, it is possible to build them using the published circuits and details.

 

[Ian Morgan]

The way Merg kits are packaged, and the fully illustrated and clearly worded instructions mean that they can usually be constructed without any electronics knowledge. You just need to know how to solder neatly and correctly.

 

Sample showing components packaged on card with clear component identities R1, R2, R3 etc.

 

Sample of the fully illustrated instructions:

 

 

An almost completed DCC Command Station, showing how the PCB is clearly labelled with the component identities R1, R2, R3 etc.

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Ian Morgan
re-loaded images

[A. Bastow]

@Ian Morgan 

 

Are there any other ways to reliably switch frog polarity without relying on short circuit detection and without the use of a physical sliding microswitch? (Showing my ignorance now on electronics)

 

And as I understand it now, MERG supply the PCB and all the components and you assemble it all? As a true kit? 
I might be willing to give it a bash. 

[bécasse]

1 hour ago, Ian Morgan said:

An almost completed DCC Command Station, showing how the PCB is clearly labelled with the component identities R1, R2, R3 etc.

 

 

 

That DCC command station may look daunting but actually putting one together, soldering in one nominated component at a time, is actually surprisingly easy. Indeed, considerably easier than putting a model kit together in my humble opinion.

[Donw]

The MERG circuits for frog juicers include two which are innovative.  Julian Coles designed one that rather than look for an excess current looks instead for a colapse of the voltage across the track when a short occurs. This enables a quicker response. The other by Tim Coombs leaves the frog disconnected and uses a low voltage to spot a connection from the Frog to either stock rail and then connects the Frog to that stock rail should both stock rails get connected to the frog in perhaps a derailment the frog is left disconnected. This circuit can be used with DC.

Boards are usually available from other members or you can order them yourself.

The alternative is to use frog switches attaced to servo drivers which are in cluded in some MERG devices. This does lack the ability to cope with a loco getting too close to a turnout set against it.

Don 

[Donw]

9 minutes ago, A. Bastow said:

@Ian Morgan 

 

Are there any other ways to reliably switch frog polarity without relying on short circuit detection and without the use of a physical sliding microswitch? (Showing my ignorance now on electronics)

 

And as I understand it now, MERG supply the PCB and all the components and you assemble it all? As a true kit? 
I might be willing to give it a bash. 

 

The first question is how will you drive the turnouts mechanical, solenoid, servo, stall motor?  

 

Don

[Izzy]

The frog juicer from Tim Coombs seems a rather neat solution. Especially if it can be used irrespective of DC or DCC power. Very handy for convertible layouts that can use either depending on needs. Does it need a separate power source Don? Perhaps I’ll have to re-new my lapsed MERG membership......

 

I see the command station uses through the hole parts which does make it easier than SMD construction.

[A. Bastow]

1 minute ago, Donw said:

 

The first question is how will you drive the turnouts mechanical, solenoid, servo, stall motor?  

 

Don

 

I plan to throw tie-bars with wire in tube (with the Mercontrol system).

 

I could be convinced to use servo or stall motor though I have no experience of them. 

 

Adam

 

[queensquare]

2 hours ago, A. Bastow said:

 

I plan to throw tie-bars with wire in tube (with the Mercontrol system).

 

I could be convinced to use servo or stall motor though I have no experience of them. 

 

Adam

 

The tie bar on a point has to be physically thrown by something, doesn't matter what, so why not just use that movement to work a microswitch at the same time. All this frog juicer stuff just seems to be a very complicated way of solving a very simple problem. Somebody once told me that the advantage of them is that you can run through a point that set against you without it shorting - presumably the train then falls off the track so I can't see much advantage.

jerry, a great believer in the KISS principle.