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It may be worth reading articles in the 2mm Magazine on building the M7 and T9 Worseley kits.

The M7 ran from 2012 to 2014 and the T9 was I think the following year 2015

Oli

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Just now, oily said:

It may be worth reading articles in the 2mm Magazine on building the M7 and T9 Worseley kits.

The M7 ran from 2012 to 2014 and the T9 was I think the following year 2015

Oli

Thank you! I will have a read through and see what I can see.

I'm not particularly intimidated by the kit - it's just another tank locomotive at the end of the day. I just wondered if anyone had imput on how they chose to construct it. I'll see if the 2mm magazine has some helpful bits.

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Using split axles any metal body is a potential short. The normal practice is to keep the body electrically dead.  So there either needs to be an insulating spacer on the top of the frame or the underside of the boy must be insulated. One way to do this is to use a cigarette paper with araldite stuck under the footplate and inside the splashers. Any screw used to hold the body and frame together must be insulated from the frames. It may seem rather a lot of faff but it works.

 

Don

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2 minutes ago, Donw said:

Using split axles any metal body is a potential short. The normal practice is to keep the body electrically dead.  So there either needs to be an insulating spacer on the top of the frame or the underside of the boy must be insulated. One way to do this is to use a cigarette paper with araldite stuck under the footplate and inside the splashers. Any screw used to hold the body and frame together must be insulated from the frames. It may seem rather a lot of faff but it works.

 

Don

Thanks Don! This is what I was figuring was the intent; insulate the body, build the chassis as a split chassis. It is good to hear someone confirm! The 2mm SA is out of stock on the split chassis book at the moment, but I've got a good bit of experience with HO and N scale brass; regearing, new drives and motors, DCC, and so on, and scratchbuilding a few N scale locos on existing chassis, but the split chassis style of construction 2mm style is new and fiddly - but fun. 

I should do a Farish pannier perhaps, but I haven't got one, heh.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, WM183 said:

Hi all.

I've purchased a Worsley Works GWR 42xx kit, but it came with no instructions at all. Most if it is pretty intuitive, but it doesn't seem particularly friendly to split-chassis construction; I dont see how the entire body won't be a short, and the frame itself is etched as one fold up piece. Is this designed for wheelback wipers and insulated bushings for the axles? 

 

Allan Doherty makes no allowance for split-frame construction, what you are basically getting is a reduction of his 3mm kits. You should be able to separate the two sides of the frame, and then construct them in split frame style using the various components from the Association shop.  You need to carefully open out the axle holes to 2.5mm to use the Association bearings, keeping the holes concentric - get this wrong and it will never run.

 

Or (provided you bought the 1:148 version of the kit) I can supply you with a 42XX chassis properly designed for split-frame construction. See https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/40081-etched-loco-chassis/page/34/

 

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, WM183 said:

Thanks Don! This is what I was figuring was the intent; insulate the body, build the chassis as a split chassis. It is good to hear someone confirm! The 2mm SA is out of stock on the split chassis book at the moment, but I've got a good bit of experience with HO and N scale brass; regearing, new drives and motors, DCC, and so on, and scratchbuilding a few N scale locos on existing chassis, but the split chassis style of construction 2mm style is new and fiddly - but fun. 

I should do a Farish pannier perhaps, but I haven't got one, heh.

 

BR Lines will happily sell you a Farish Pannier body at a very reasonable cost.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs

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11 hours ago, WM183 said:

it's just another tank locomotive at the end of the day. 

 

Well, yes, although one with a rather long fixed wheelbase,  a pony truck and outside cylinders.  Take a care to make sure it will go around corners.

 

Chris

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As Chris says above, you can use the frames in the Worsley etch or get a chassis etch from him. Alan's kits are sold as 'scratch aids' and come with no instructions but effectively cut out all the tricky bits for you. The Midland 1F below is a reduction from a Craftsman kit which also makes no allowance for split chassis - you just use the useful bits and cobble together the rest!

Assembling a split frame chassis is reasonably straightforward using PCB spacers - body fixing screws go through the insulated center part of the spacer. That said, a 2-8-0T with outside cylinders is a bit more challenging than an 0-6-0!

 

As Don said, insulating the chassis from the body is also pretty simple. I use cigarette paper and runny super glue as in the MR 0-6-0T chassis below.

 

Jerry

 

1622092523_1F1.JPG.277e72b0c3dfbecd70c9c2fa7fb29787.JPG

343741574_1F2.JPG.0bbbf8f27ffdcf5ac27c79e990252078.JPG

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17 hours ago, WM183 said:

Hi all.

I've purchased a Worsley Works GWR 42xx kit, but it came with no instructions at all. Most if it is pretty intuitive, but it doesn't seem particularly friendly to split-chassis construction; I dont see how the entire body won't be a short, and the frame itself is etched as one fold up piece. Is this designed for wheelback wipers and insulated bushings for the axles? 

 

After building half a dozen of split replacement chassis for RTR models or old brass kits, I "attacked" my first Worsley Works scratch-aid kit: a tender locomotive (SER Class O). The plan is to use all the parts for the locomotive and tender bodies and replace the chassis with scratch-built chassis made of milled solid brass (see the photos below). To separate the block from the strip 50 thou Plastikard was employed. The strip fitted to the block by 1/8" 12 BA steel countersunk screws; there are nylon (Acetal) plugs fitted into the block, tapped with 12 BA threads as it shows in this post.

 

As others have mentioned, there are some parts missing from the fret (like tender springs in my case), and some spare parts (like two coal bunker doors - I am not going to use any as this will be in the UJ's path.

 

 

IMG_20190827_135642.jpg

IMG_20190827_135708.jpg

IMG_20190827_135836.jpg

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1 hour ago, Valentin said:

 

After building half a dozen of split replacement chassis for RTR models or old brass kits, I "attacked" my first Worsley Works scratch-aid kit: a tender locomotive (SER Class O). The plan is to use all the parts for the locomotive and tender bodies and replace the chassis with scratch-built chassis made of milled solid brass (see the photos below). To separate the block from the strip 50 thou Plastikard was employed. The strip fitted to the block by 1/8" 12 BA steel countersunk screws; there are nylon (Acetal) plugs fitted into the block, tapped with 12 BA threads as it shows in this post.

 

As others have mentioned, there are some parts missing from the fret (like tender springs in my case), and some spare parts (like two coal bunker doors - I am not going to use any as this will be in the UJ's path.

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/IMG_20190827_135642.jpg.9ccaaab7a5fb89b2c95666154851c5f7.jpg

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/IMG_20190827_135708.jpg.4e29fbe323fa55d6778e6062cbf9cfe1.jpg

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/IMG_20190827_135836.jpg.9d32cf530d8122bc344e1bfaa41da32a.jpg

 

I must admit,  although I can certainly see how solid brass chassis benefit a loco, what is the logic for a tender - surely that is just more weight to pull a round?

 

Chris

 

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1 hour ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

I must admit,  although I can certainly see how solid brass chassis benefit a loco, what is the logic for a tender - surely that is just more weight to pull a round?

 

Chris

 

 

Unless you arrange the front two axles to have vertical play and suspend the front end from the loco useful for 4-4-0s and the like but even on an 0-6-0 it can balance weight at the front of the loco.

 

I would also endose Chris's suggestion to buy a Pannier body from Ron Lines ( I think I paid a tenner for one) and use the Association etch. You will get the benefits of seeing how it can be done. The way the gears are mounted etc. are all good ideas. Worth doing even if have done the 42xx first. Besides if you are modelling GWR you can always use a Pannier (or a saddle tank in earlier days). I would suggest you might also find Ian's thread on the 0-6-0ST for Modbury, of interest. 

 

Don

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On 27/08/2019 at 15:38, Chris Higgs said:

 

I must admit,  although I can certainly see how solid brass chassis benefit a loco, what is the logic for a tender - surely that is just more weight to pull a round?

 

Chris

 

You are right, Chris but being my first attempt to build a solid brass chassis, I thought that building one for a tender must be easier than building the chassis for a locomotive. I would be happy if I can finish this project and even more happier if The locomotive will pull two, maxim three wagons.

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hello all, it's about time I tackle a second run at the Masterclass Jinty chassis - the last time I built it, I'd made a pig's ear of the motorisation. It was a one-two punch where I wasn't able to align the can motor concentrically with the worm gear in 3D space, and I didn't figure an effective way to transmit the rotation in such a way to mitigate that misalignment. I tried again by removing the gearbox entirely, but the motor shaft wasn't rigid enough to keep a positive alignment with the helical gear and it slipped.

 

 

With a fresh set of eyes and feeling re-engerised I want to get started, but I'd like to know how to tackle this before I get too far along. If I remember correctly Chris H. suggested that a potential solution was to remove the 'full' gearbox and leave only the bearing on the face beyond the helical gear, opposite the motor - this way, the worm/shaft/motor assembly can pivot in the bearing and be fixed with glue/etc. when positively engaged. Some have mentioned a few times that building the as-is gearbox with its worm-shaft, albeit terminating on a dog clutch. I'm not all that clear on how that would work on this particular chassis (given that the loco can't roll with the worm in-situ anyway, and it's not a tender loco which would require removal of the motor from the driveshaft).

 

Any thoughts or opinions gladly taken - I know there are many ways to skin a cat, but at this point I think I'd really just like the simplest, most bullet-proof solution!

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My kit-built Class C runs very bad when going forward. I scratch-built a new chassis for the tender, quartering is perfect (the chassis runs smoothly under it's own weight on a slightly tilted board). Without load the motor runs "round". The motor is the cheap "Graham Farish Clone" (eBay).

 

Forward

 

Backward

 

In both video clips the "speed" setting on the Medvend controller is exactly the same.

 

Any advice will be appreciated.

 

After many hours of frustration, I am considering to use this tool to fix all the issues:

 

 

IMG_20190905_165946.jpg

Edited by Valentin

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Might be useful to see it running with the body off Valentin & some photos of the gear head arrangements.

 

Tim

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Hello Valentin,

 

One thing I'd look at with the body on is whether the coupling rods are catching the steps, or the footplate (probably not this though). Also check the wheels are not catching the splashers. I note the hesitation seems to occur at the same point each time the wheels rotate. I'd stop the wheels at that point and inspect the underside of the loco carefully. I'd also look to see if the worm wheel is rotating concentrically, though I'd have thought the hesitation would occur whichever direction the wheels rotate. There are all sorts of things to consider, but especially the obvious - often overlooked (well by me anyway). Maybe leave the loco for a day and start the investigations with a fresh mind.

 

Nig H

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Thank you all for your feedback.

 

I will leave it for longer than a day as we're going on holiday for a couple of weeks. Once we're back home I will start the "troubleshooting" with your suggestions.

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Another possibility is that the final gear might be very slightly eccentric, causing a tight spot when running forwards (as the gears get slightly pulled together) but freer going in reverse.  Alternatively it might not be quite square on the muff and so binding against the worm wheel at one point.  This will happen in the direction when the worm is pushing the worm wheel slightly to the side on which the final gear lies.  Running it with the body off as suggested will eliminate any binding against the body.  Because it happens at the same point in the revolution, the problem must lie with the final gear/wheels.

 

Jim

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As previous videos have shown the loco running okay, and what is seen is a classic symptom of errant quartering/mis-matching of wheels/rods etc, severe binding at the rod midpoints, could I suggest that you re-check the wheel/s haven’t shifted on their axles somehow. Or the crankpins been knocked out of true.

 

Izzy

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Also check with a straight edge that the holes in the coupling rods are still in line. They can sometimes get bent out of true.

Nick.

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I would take the body off first. If it runs okay then it is unlikely to be quartering etc. and would likely be either catching on the body somewhere or the chassis being distorted by being fastened to the body. If if still occurs with the body off at least you have eliminated some of the possible causes and can check the quartering hasn't shifted or crankpins bent.

 

Don

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How does it run with the rods off?  i.e. only driving the centre axle?  If that is OK, my next step would be to fit the rods upside down so that the front crankpin hole is on the centre drivers and the centre hole on the front drivers, with the rear part of the rod projecting forwards, so that you're only driving the front axle with the rods  If the problem persists, then it's probably the quartering of the front wheels which is at fault.  If it runs OK then swap the rods over to only drive the rear wheels and see what happens. 

 

Jim

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I've managed to get my Jinty chassis rebuilt and rolling and I'm very pleased. There appears to be one final small hurdle to overcome however, before I can consider it the home straight. The motor I am using is an association flat can motor with a 1mm shaft. This needs to be adapted for the worm and bearing to 1.5mm.

 

Using the 'half gearbox' method I understand requires me to have a single continuous shaft from the bearing through to the motor, a length of approximately 15mm  - however the adapter shafts supplied by the association shops are only 8mm in length. To this end I have purchased some brass tube of nominal equal measurements (1mm inside/ 1.5mm outside diameter), but in any event, it is loose on the motor shaft.

 

I've already sent a request to Shop3 to see if I can get some of the uncut adapter tube, or in longer lengths - but failing that, is there a solution to maintain concentricity AND fix the brass to the steel motor shaft? See picture below - note the brass tube is obviously quite oversized, it won't poke out that far beyond the gearbox when I've figured out how to do this.

image.png

 

 

19 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

Some Loctite 601 would be the best way William.  If you let me know when you can get to Keen House I could bring some with me and fix it. 

 

Tim

 

@CF MRC thank you kindly - should I not worry too much about maintaining its concentricity? it's very minor but over the inch or so it feels like it could be a problem!

Edited by Lacathedrale

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Should be able to keep its concentricity, by devious means, but it definitely needs some form of decent motor mount to keep the overall alignment.   Maybe some Milliput or something like that. 

 

Tim

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