4 rail OO without (to many) tears

[Metr0Land]

…or hopefully not too many tears.

 

You shouldn’t need much skill at all (I have very little) but you will need some patience as this method means you can only do a few inches at a time – but if you work on 2 or 3 different bits of track you can do 18-24†at a time.

 

I anguished for a long time over how to get 4 rail track right, which is probably a common issue with most of you deciding to take the plunge?.

 

The down sides:

a/ 00-16.5 gauge is ‘wrong’ so it’s all compromise to some extent.

b/ I was never happy with the Peco bit ands bobs.

c/ I couldn’t get hold of the conductor rail ‘ramps’ by Scalefour Society(?) though these may now be available.

d/ I didn’t feel confident tackling EM/P4/S4 as I’d been an armchair modeller for 25+ years.

 

The up sides to my method:

1/ No special tools need.

2/ No previous skill needed – just patience.

3/I feel it looks right (well it satisfies me anyway). ‘If it looks right it is right’ given that I’m working with OO-16.5mm which is ‘wrong’ to start with.

4/ It’s technically very simple! Just take your time.

 

My track is Peco Code 100 and had been laid and ballasted for some time, but not weathered. Like many of us, I kept putting off having a go at 4 rail, and when I did try on some sidings, it was frustrating, and didn’t look right.

 

In theory, turning Code 100 rail upside down and using it for 3rd and 4th rails would be ‘scale’ (LT conductor rails are heavier than running rails) but it didn’t look right (to me).

 

When I look at real track, it always looks to me that the outside conductor rail is thinner than running rail due to the action of conductor shoes. Likewise the centre rail looks to be the same width as the running rails due to the ‘cleaning’. Obviously if you stare at one bit you can soon see the conductor rails are thicker.

 

OK, so we’re back to trying to get OO to look right and I felt that by using Code 100 rail for the middle, and Code 60 (N gauge rail) for the outer conductor rail was reasonably convincing.

 

I worked out a way of doing ‘ramps’ which was not perfect but gave me an easy way of doing them with very little grief.

 

Basically you need to cut a notch out of the end of the rail (the rusty brown area in pic). Note that the lower cut needs to go from 2 o’clock to 8 o’clock if you’re right handed.

I haven’t included any dimensions for the cut as I vary these a little to suit the location.

 

Once cut, the laws of physics mean the end will turn upwards.

 

Simply use some pliers to turn it downwards. Note that I didn’t angle the cut properly in this case but you can always do it again or file it down.

 

It seems to me that Underground/Southern modellers go to a lot of effort over the insulating pots, but with all the static electricity and general track gunge most of the white pots disappear quite quickly, so all you need is a representation of them.

 

The centre rail is simply glued to the middle of the track. With weathering it’s given me an acceptable looking effect.

 

For the outside rail, I simply use a track pin, and the little white circular collar in the Peco pack for insulating chairs etc and ignore the pots. The pins are inserted every 5 sleepers or so. And the Code 60 rail superglued on top. This is where I say patience is needed. With the centre you may be able to do longer stretches at a time, but for the outer rail (especially on a curve) you may only be able to balance (and weigh down) 6†at a time.

 

In order to align the rails I just stick several track pins either side of the bit that’s setting and leave for at least 24hours. Once I’d got on top of the method I was able to work on 3 or 4 little bits at a time, and soon the work sites converged.

 

I have done a few other little tweaks in places but these are the main ways I’ve done it all. The one thing I can’t seem to do is the Vee in points. In life this is a piece of straight rail with another piece of straight rail cut at 45deg. I can’t seem to replicate this nicely so just do straights or curves as I think best fits the particular turnout.

 

All that’s left is to weather the track if you haven’t done so already. If I were to start again…… (don’t you hear that a lot?) I’d weather track and rails before laying.

 

For weathering I use Joes Model Trains Custom Flat Acrylic - brown rust first. Then I use dark brown on top. The dark brown won’t stick to nickel silver without some kind of undercoat. The further lines here have just the rust undercoat, and the non-electrified lines have the dark brown topcoat as well.

 

It may take some time, but very little skill is needed, and when you have a decent length of complex track it’s a great thrill (not to mention relief….)

 

 

If I were to do it again, I’d make the ‘ramps’ at the end of each section of electric rail longer (or investigate the use of pre-formed ones which I think are available again?) but I’m not about to rip it all up until I’ve had a lot more enjoyment from it!!!

[PaulRhB]

Certainly looks neat, the only thing I'd do differently is use brass pins and solder the rail ,around curves especially, as I wouldn't be sure superglue would hold if the room temperature varies and the rails expand.

The layout certainly captures that busy LU look at that junction.

[dajt]

Nice job! I think the extra two rails hide a lot of the problem with Peco code 100 OO track. I don't live in the UK, but every time I see a picture of the 4 rail track it just seems so busy and chunky, and you've captured that look very well.

 

Regards,

David.

[Metr0Land]

Certainly looks neat, the only thing I'd do differently is use brass pins and solder the rail ,around curves especially, as I wouldn't be sure superglue would hold if the room temperature varies and the rails expand.

The layout certainly captures that busy LU look at that junction.

 

Thanks - time will tell, when I return to this in the winter months!

 

Fortunately the main curve disappears behind the scenery so is only 2 rail, and all the curvy bits are accessible.

 

The only thing I'd say is that for some people, QUALITY soldering is a black art and with so many pins holding the rails that for a real beginner I'd recommend glue. What I've found with all this is, that once I get confident and am happy with the 'look' of various aspects of the model, I'm happy to go back and re-do things more slowly/better.

 

In fact most bits of the model have been done about 3 times, but when you build up confidence the extra effort looks like a worthwhile return.

[PaulRhB]

I agree your approach is spot on, never be afraid to upgrade later and leave the bits that work untouched. I suppose you could pre bend the rail for curves too to reduce the risk of heat fluctuations breaking it away without having to worry about soldering.

With rail and brass pins though a decent sized 25 or preferably 40watt iron should have no problem getting enough heat on to make a small neat joint. I think a lot of people get worried as their first try is a small 20watt iron with a tiny bit that struggles to get enough heat into the rail to make the solder flow.

[GoingUnderground]

You're right, LT Conductor rail is broader than running rail.

 

My trick is to use the Code 60, but turn it upside down. It still fits in the PECO insulators, just, but looks so much better. You don't realise that the bottom is narrower than the top

 

For the ramps I bend Code 75 rail joiners in half, solder them to the conductor rail and grind away the excess metal to get the right tapered broadening of the contact surface out into the ramp.

 

The splices are done by tapering one side of a length of code 60, grinding away a matching part on the other conductor rail and soldering them together.

 

Here's a shot from my test bed where I'm working out the best way to do things before I build the layout. The track is Peco Code 100.

 

I've also attached a shot of the Northbound Piccadilly line track at Acton Town to show what I mean about the width of the conductor rail. The scroll bar at the bottom of the lower picture scrolls both across at the same time so you can see the ramps in the upper photo.

[Metr0Land]

Your test section looks very attractive GoingUnderground - not sure I'd have the patience but those sloping ramps do look good.

 

As mentioned by another respondent, using Code 100 with 2 extra rails does seem to hide a lot of the faults of Code 100 (whilst of course keeping the universal nature of it).

[Southernboy]

Although I'm in N gauge and modelling only 3rd rail - this thread has some interesting ideas, so thanks for posting. The results look excellent. I think this is also in part yet another example of 'if it looks right it is right' ...

 

GoingUnderground

One thing I didn't quite grasp was the following:

"For the ramps I bend Code 75 rail joiners in half, solder them to the conductor rail and grind away the excess metal to get the right tapered broadening of the contact surface out into the ramp."

 

Would you mind going over that again for the boy in the corner with the dunces cap

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[GoingUnderground]

Although I'm in N gauge and modelling only 3rd rail - this thread has some interesting ideas, so thanks for posting. The results look excellent. I think this is also in part yet another example of 'if it looks right it is right' ...

 

GoingUnderground

One thing I didn't quite grasp was the following:

"For the ramps I bend Code 75 rail joiners in half, solder them to the conductor rail and grind away the excess metal to get the right tapered broadening of the contact surface out into the ramp."

 

Would you mind going over that again for the boy in the corner with the dunces cap

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

The tapered ends of the conductor rails are the ramps, just to make sure we're both talking about the same thing. On LT they are wider than the top surface of the conductor rail, but the transition between the two isn't a sharp jump in dimensions, it tapers widthways. Also there are two sorts of ramps, ones with rounded ends where when looking at them end on you cannot see the web between the upper and lower surfaces of the ramp, others with cut off ends where you can. I model, or will be modelling, the NW London area where I believe the rounded end ramps predominate.

 

So to get the rounded end, I take a code 75 rail joiner and using long nose pliers flatten the middle so looking at it sideways on the two ends look normal but the middle looks like someone's stood on it, which I have, with a pair of pliers.

 

I then bend it, end towards end until they're almost touching, and being flattened in the middle that's where it bends. I now have a u shaped rail joiner, and with a careful bit of adjusting whilst I'm bending it, one surface is slightly curved, convex (outward), whilst the other is flat. Next I solder my U shaped rail joiner, with the curved side uppermost to an upside down piece of code 60 rail. Once that's done it looks like a spade when looked at from above ,with the rail as the shaft and the rail joiner as the blade.. I then use a grinding stone in a Dremel to grind away the shoulders of the "spade" so there is a smooth transition widthways from the conductor rail to the rail joiner, just as in real life. I also grind down the top edge of the rail joiner where it meets the rail to remove the lip cause by fitting the rail joiner to the rail.

 

That;s how it's done. The ramps are probably shorter than they should be, but it gives the right "look" to my eyes anyway. you've seen the result, Judge for yourself.

 

Benefits, relatively quick, cheap, and I know what they look like. Disadvantages, too short, but nevertheless they look right. to someone who started travelling on the Underground before the A60 stock came into service.

 

I too was interested in the Scalefour ramps, but they never have any on display or for sale at any show that I've been to where they've had a stand. The pictures on Russ Elliott's web site of them just look wrong when compared to the photos of the real thing on his site. I won't buy them without seeing them first.

 

Metr0land's method seems to me to be right for BR 3rd rail where the end of the rail is simply bent down, but not for LT where conductor rail always ends in a ramp, even at termini or sidings.

[Southernboy]

Ramps: I've got that now. Thanks for your time

[AndrewC]

Not 100% sure this belongs here but.....

 

My first, last, and only attempt at 4 rail. Moore Street Its about 4 posts down. One day maybe I'll get a proper roundtuit and rebuild the thing properly.

[Metr0Land]

I agree your approach is spot on, never be afraid to upgrade later and leave the bits that work untouched. I suppose you could pre bend the rail for curves too to reduce the risk of heat fluctuations breaking it away without having to worry about soldering.

With rail and brass pins though a decent sized 25 or preferably 40watt iron should have no problem getting enough heat on to make a small neat joint. I think a lot of people get worried as their first try is a small 20watt iron with a tiny bit that struggles to get enough heat into the rail to make the solder flow.

 

I haven't replied to this until now as I was pondering whether to have a go at sodlering or not. In the end I decided not to as I've agreed to to a little demo at an exhibition being arranged by Xerces Fobe 2 of this board.

 

http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1

 

As i've tried to keep this 'low tech' and 'anyone can do it' I decided to keep with glue rather than solder. Over the last 3 winter/summer cycles, not much has come unstuck. When I re-glue bits they usually stay stuck (unless I knock outer rails off when cleaning rails!)

 

I wasn't sure why this might be, be think it may be that on first laying, there is metal pin-glue-metal rail. When I re-stick, it's metal pin-glue-glue-metal rail so possibly the gluey join in the middle has a bit more 'flex'?

 

The display is fairly straightforward setup with Peco 100 at the bottom, untouched.

 

 

 

The middle level has the track ballasted and the rails left un-weathered, but with track pins showing how I hold the bits in place whilst glue is setting. (They’re a bit dark in the pictures - not sure if I’ll try and find coloured pins for display or keep with the track pins. These are after all what I’ve used, and I’m trying to show people how you can follow the KISS principle and get something with ’the look’)

 

The top level has 2 tracks with a crossover, ballasted and weathered, but should be within the capabilities of anyone. All track parts are either cut, glued, pinned, filed or bent. No soldering, and it’s all in OO. In anyone’s motivated to have a go with soldering, or EM or P4 etc etc then so much the better, but this is all about low-tech.

 

 

On the day I hope to have some relevant stock on the RH end of each track.

 

If you are attending please drop by.

[big jim]

out of interest what are the cable run holders made from, or are they a bought item?

[Gwiwer]

Well it certainly looks the part! Next step is to power the trains off the juice rails rather than the track Keep up the good work.

[Metr0Land]

out of interest what are the cable run holders made from, or are they a bought item?

 

The cable run holders are from Radley Models. They're white metal and a bit overscale but that's pretty much all that's available.

[big jim]

 

 

The cable run holders are from Radley Models. They're white metal and a bit overscale but that's pretty much all that's available.

 

Thanks for that, they look fine to me, certainly a lot easier than scratch building them individually!

[Kelly]

Nice looking trackwork. I'm going to have to tackle this for West Cromwell Road, so will refer back to this for ideas/inspiration, thanks!

[Metr0Land]

I've taken a few more recent trackwork pics to use with the display in early May:

 

 

 

 

 

[TravisM]

Superb pics and gives me a lot of ideas for my LT layout. I plan to use Peco Code 75 with large radius points; and Peco insulating pots with code 60 rail.

 

If you think I might be going wrong before I start laying track, please let me know.

 

Julian Sprott

[noiseboy72]

I used Code 75 for the running rails and code 100 for the conductor rail. I also just stuck the conductor rail down, but used an Evo-Stick type glue with a little bit of flex. 3 seasons in an unheated garage and no major issues.

[Metr0Land]

Superb pics and gives me a lot of ideas for my LT layout. I plan to use Peco Code 75 with large radius points; and Peco insulating pots with code 60 rail.

 

If you think I might be going wrong before I start laying track, please let me know.

 

Julian Sprott

 

Afraid it's all compromise (unless you're doing EM/P4) as OO rail is approx 4'1" so whatever you feel is right for you is what to go for. Ref large radius points it all depends on what you are trying to represent. If your layout is LT only then small or medium radius are GENERALLY more prototypical though of course there are always exceptions!

 

As my layout was originally BR I tried to use large and medium radius wherever possible. It was only later I laid in the 3rd and 4th rails. If you can set up a practice section of board you should have a little trial. I found the tiny wheels on Underground stock nearly 'fell into a hole' in the V in large radius points (these of course worked perfectly well with full size BR stock). Things seem to have settled down now generally by adding weight to the tube cars so they run through the large points ok.

 

You solve one problem and another comes up to frustrate you! The sooner you start the sooner you'll get it sorted.

[TravisM]

I have decided to go for the larger radius pointwork, even though underground pointwork is "tight", it would still look better as the rolling stock would track better through it; if the track is laid right, a track gauge is used and the good old Mk I eyeballs are used to squint along to make sure everything is square.

 

I like the idea of using code 75 to make the conductor rail ramps as they have a spade end. I plan to cut out the web as others have and then file it down to make the ramp. I plan to attach a code 75 rail joiner after the cuts have been made and soldering done, so it makes easier to slide onto the code 60 rail.

 

Hopefully the soldering won't be to noticable as the conductor rails were either covered in black oily gunge at the bases or rusty.