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"Silver Princess"


Jim Martin
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I was reading a 1963 copy of Modern Railways recently and found a brief article on "Silver Princess", a 1947-built coach manufactured by Budd as a demonstrator for UK service. According to the article, it was later named "Ulster Lounge" (for use in the Ulster Express) and by 1963 was running in the Shamrock.

 

Can anyone tell me more about the career of this coach? In particular, there's a photo of it in US-style stainless steel finish, complete with what look like fluted lower body sides and roof. The name is painted on large letter boards on the fluted sides. Did it ever run in this form in the UK?

 

Thanks

 

Jim

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This unusual coach (by UK standards) was built in 1947 by the Budd Company of America, and took to the rails in Britian, and for a time Ireland, to demonstrate constructional features new to British practice. Named "Silver Princess", it was 63ft long. 9ft 2ins wide and weighed 29 tons, was of all-steel construction and distinguished by corrugated side and roof panels. The outer skin was of stainless steel and the coach was originally unpainted. As built it was composite with first class in side compartments and third class in an open saloon with twin reclining and rotating seats.

 

It ran experimentally on both the LMS and LNER and, with 5ft 3ins bogies, on the CIE in Ireland. Later it was allocated to the London Midland Region of BR and upgraded to full first. Still later, the first class compartments were replaced by a lounge bar. The coach was given standard BR carmine & cream livery, presumably when alloced to the LMR and the only insignia carried while in this livery was M7585M and figure 1's on all doors. There were plain flat sections on the corrugated lower sides intended to accomodate insignia. The doors were not corrugated.

 

Bogies were standard LMS 9ft welded type while corridor conections were of the standard British type (not pullman) but with pointed tops. There were seven roof vents of a unique flat type. The body may have been self-supporting although there does appear to be some trussing under the centre of the coach ala BR Mk. I style, however, this may have been purely a support for the dynamo, battery boxes and ancillary fittings.

 

Info and observations from 'Railway Carriage Album' by G M Kitchenside (IA 1966)

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There is some further information here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32283

 

There are also some original condition photos in the book Railway Design since 1830 vol. 2 by Brian Haresnape.

 

The coach was quite advanced in many respects (besides the construction) featuring double glazing, fluorescent lighting and pressure ventilation.

 

Mark

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Thanks to everyone for their replies. It's not really my period, but it looked like an interesting carriage. The Modern Railways article that I was reading is actually referenced in one of the replies to the thread that Mark linked to: what's very striking is just how broad in the beam it looks compared to the next coach: number M3038, which I take to be a Mk.1.

 

Jim

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  • 2 years later...

The Budd Silver Princess appeared in the LMS diagram book on page 59 as Diagram 2186, also on page 59 A as diagram 2190, the latter was the smooth sided rebuilt version.   Back Track magazine  of Dec. 2007 pages 780 and 781 showed pictures of the interior and exterior of this vehicle, in the original state and as re-painted in carmine and cream .  The pictures were credited to Pendragon collection and T.J.Edgington. In that Dec. 2007 issue Backtrack/ Pendragon stated that they had a SET of OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPHS of these vehicles , but very limited information , and asked if any readers could help in this direction .    Other pictures have appeared elsewhere credited to the well known author G.M.Kichenside.   The Pressed Steel / Budd company Archives are with the NRM and merit a search.  The Budd company of USA ( the builders ) were happy to supply information and photographs way back in 1970, but since then the company has folded and , like so many , has been absorbed and / or taken over by other companies , who inturn have been taken over and is now owned by JUNGHEINRICH of Germany, whether they have the Budd company USA archives is not known.

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 I seem to recall that I drew, or traced a drawing, of Silver Princess many years ago. It must be what was used in Steam Days way back when I was the Editor. I have a feeling it was used in a Model Railway Constructor Annual, too, but I don't have a full set of those for reference. From memory, there was a broadside photo of it, too. It was a good-looking vehicle and it is interesting to think that, had BR bought Budd instead of building Mk1s, they would have spent a lot more money but the coaches would probably still be running now, as many of them are in Canada!

CHRIS LEIGH

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  • 1 month later...

 I seem to recall that I drew, or traced a drawing, of Silver Princess many years ago. ..... It was a good-looking vehicle and it is interesting to think that, had BR bought Budd instead of building Mk1s, they would have spent a lot more money but the coaches would probably still be running now, as many of them are in Canada!

CHRIS LEIGH

And they wouldn't have had to buy them from Budd, just the rights to the technique. The original stainless steel electric Z5100 sets used around Paris lasted from 1953 -1998 and the similar RIB (Rame Inox Banlieue) suburban push pull sets were introduced in 1960 and I believe some may even still be in service with updated interiors and equipment. The main line express DEV Inox coaches built in the early 1950s had a similarly long life. The French Inoxes were all built by Carel & Fouché who held a licence from Budd.

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Thanks Phil

That's fascinating. I didn't know that Budd had taken a financial interest in Carel & Fouché and things might have been interesting if The Pressed Steel plan had gone ahead.

 

I rather suspect that, apart from its engineering virtues, a big part of the appeal of stainless steel in the 1950s was its sense of modernity. Though it was a very common sight,  a train of shiny new Inox coaches on one of France's more prestigious  expresses being hauled by a steam loco always strikes me as looking just a bit incongruous.  

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The advantage of the Budd Patent  all electric welding monocoque construction which meant a lighter weight vehicle able to take buffing forces compared to traditional construction. ( Underframe trussing was not structurally required, the LMS bought some all steel carriages from Leeds Forge which also lacked trussing, ref "LMS Coaches" )

 

Lighter weight meant more carriages, and therefore seats for a given weight.

 

Also being all stainless steel there was not the problem of rusted sills due to moisture accumulation. Hence Chris Leigh's comment about long life in North America ( and Australia ).

 

When Amtrak decided to rebuild inherited carriages it was the Budd Patent carriages that survived due to a lack of corrosion compared to other carriage builders who attached stainless steel covering to non stainless underpinnings with the result that with age internal corrosion became a major maintenance issue.

 

From BR's perspective the Budd patent carriages would all have to be bought from the one UK licensee, Pressed Steel, as the process was unavailable to other builders.

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  • 6 years later...

You didn't have to go all the way to the USA to ride on one if the British example eluded you. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiture_DEV_Inox

 

These French versions were really comfortable, they rode like a palace on wheels, and the interior detailing was great, with things like little-fold-out tables (made from half a ton of stainless steel!) in the compartments. They were still in service until the 1980s in the SW of France.

 

We really missed something by not having these, because they made a BR Mark 1 look and feel like something from the 1930s.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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