Books on outdoor railways

[juggy0_1]

Does anyone know of any really good books on building an outdoor railway in 4mm, i've been looking on amazon etc and reading the reviews of numerous relevant books seem to complain that they only focus on live steam narrow gauge or larger passenger carrying type gauges. I know there's plenty of information on this forum but sometimes you just need a little bedtime reading.

 

thanks

 

Darren

[PeterR]

Does anyone know of any really good books on building an outdoor railway in 4mm, i've been looking on amazon etc and reading the reviews of numerous relevant books seem to complain that they only focus on live steam narrow gauge or larger passenger carrying type gauges. I know there's plenty of information on this forum but sometimes you just need a little bedtime reading.

 

thanks

 

Darren

 

Hi Darren,

 

 

The book 'Garden Railways - The essential guide to construction' from Amazon is about a 7mm scale narrow gauge line. Its quite good and nearer to what you want.

 

Its not bedtime readiong - 'cos its a DVD - but the model rail 'Garden Railway Expert DVD is about 4mm (& other gauges) in the garden, its at aspecial price of £20 from 01524 730500 I think. (no commection)

 

My 15mm to the foot line is on top of Celcon blocks nad with them cemeted in is OK.

[Donw]

There don't seem to have been many that focus on 4mm. However much of the 0 gauge electric railwaystechniques could be useful. One tip something often overlooked is the need for the track to be level across the rails ( unless you are using superelevation) what you dont want is twist or wind where thebase leans this way and that. If the concrete or wooden base is not level pack the track carefully to keep it level.

I would try Cyril Freezer's Garden Railway Manual. Don Neale's book is good but a lot relate to earlier practice on coarse scale. There is always Garden Rail Magazine but a lot is for bigger stuff.

 

Don

[faulcon1]

Although an old post Chris Hattons book (The Essential Guide To Construction) was good although no mention of DCC and it was published in 2007. Another thing he insisted on was having a complete circuit of track and then admitting that he was too lazy to set up his extra pieces to have a complete circuit of track.

 

Don Neale's book Railways In The Garden was how one person built their garden railway. Don Neale's book is written with great humor and is a thoroughly enjoyable read although as others have stated it's mainly about coarse O scale. Unlike many others in his day Don wholeheartedly endorsed garden railways from the large scales right down to OO and N. Don's book is out of print now but maybe available secondhand. It was a Peco Publication.

 

The CJ Freezer book (Garden Railway Manual) I found good but odd as the author states that he's never had a garden railway but has visited many. To me that's like telling the virtues of a BMW M5 but stating you can't drive and don't hold a license but have ridden in M5's. I had the feeling that quite a few other peoples brains were picked for the information contained in that book.

[Stevelewis]

Very little  with emphasis on 4mm has actually been written,

 

A lifetime in 0 Gauge  by Jack Ray  although 7mm  is   quite  a good  read.

 

My first venture into garden railways  was back in the  70s  when  I became frustrated at the  lack of room in my  shed  so  knocked a couple of  holes in the  back  wall  and  ran a double  track line   down one side of the  garden  around  30'  It was  simple wooden  construction 8' x 4"  x 1"  well creosoted  planks supported by 2" x"2 posts   the  planks were covered with roofing  felt and  the  track  (Peco code 100  No code 75 in those daays). was simply pinned down,  Power was  fed  from the  shed  end  and  I ran a cable  (under the planks) to feed the  track at  the other  end.

 

The locos  used  were mainly  Wrenn  (diecast metal bodies)  the immediate effect of  building  this outdoor extension  was  I could run 8 to 10 coach passenger trains as opposed to  the  3 coach ones within the  shed,  similarly 25 -30 wagon freight trains were possible.

 

The line  was in use for around 4 years,  and  was eventually dismantled  and the  stock sold off,, when  LGB  became more  easily available in the UK

 

I have  some  phots  somewhere  if I can find  them  I will add them, in the  meantine  heres one of my mallets!!

[Dorkingian]

For outdoor 4mm railway modelling, the best source is not a book but a website (whisper it!):

 

http://www.oogardenrailway.co.uk/

[DCB]

There is so much variety between methods of building 00 layouts outside that really you need to start by deciding on whether the line is on the garden or in it. You can build baseboards, I have a couple,but 90% of my line is built on the ground, by scraping a trench and laying concrete or adapting or building a wall topped with concrete onto which the track is laid before the cement has set.   I use battery power I hope to upgrade to Radio Control soon but simply watching and chasing  battery powered locos as they struggle with long trains up fierce 1:14 gradients from Innamess to Goat of Barton is fun.   See Pic

I also operate a GWR branch terminus i a "rabbit Hutch" on a 30 foot branch from an indoor layout on DC which is fun as long as heavy locos which pick up power from dirty track re used (Not modern Bachmann or Hornby, Grafar and H/D rule OK)

[edcayton]

 

 

The CJ Freezer book (Garden Railway Manual) I found good but odd as the author states that he's never had a garden railway but has visited many. To me that's like telling the virtues of a BMW M5 but stating you can't drive and don't hold a license but have ridden in M5's. I had the feeling that quite a few other peoples brains were picked for the information contained in that book.

 

I have a blind friend who can't drive and has no licence, but has opinions on cars. Are they not valid?

 

Ed

[robertc]

How about the Peco booklet by Brian Burchell;  " Building an OO gauge garden railway". Plenty of first hand knowledge there!

 

Mine is 7mm gauge O  but would have been built the same way in a smaller scale. My previous experience with 16.5mm gauge outdoors tells me it would be laid with Peco code 100 as the finer scale rail section was much more easily damaged by the rigors of outdoor life.

regards

 Bob

[laurenceb]

Chronicles of a Garden Railway By W A Strickland pub Model & Allied Publications 1968.A small book about how Bill Strickland built a 4mm scale railway and how he sorted the bits that went wrong

[Donw]

Chronicles of a Garden Railway By W A Strickland pub Model & Allied Publications 1968.A small book about how Bill Strickland built a 4mm scale railway and how he sorted the bits that went wrong

 

Bill did change it to 7mm Narrow gauge towards the end.

Don

[faulcon1]

Although my garden railway is now dismantled and gone the mistake I made was using wood. Exterior ply or even marine ply needs regular coats of preservative. That's difficult as most preservatives will attack Peco sleepers and one doesn't want to lift the track just to get the preservatives underneath it.

There are now different types of materials available for the garden railway enthusiast to lay track on. Here in Australia we can buy at hardware superstores AAC or Autoclaved Aerated Concrete blocks similar to Thermalite blocks but pure white in texture. But they are only 200mm in width and 600mm in length but come in various thicknesses. There is also a product called Soft Fall Soft Trax which is used in playgrounds and areas when slipping on wet paths could be a problem. Naturally is comes in a range of loud colours but one colour is a light grey. The product is made of rubber and is granulated. It's held together with a binder available when the product is bought by the sack full. It's supposed to last 10+ years with foot traffic but should last considerably longer on a garden railway as no one will walk on it, other than the odd centipede, small lizard or household pets.

In 4mm scale I think that some form of radio control of the trains is a must if you have electrically powered models getting the electricity from the rails. The distances on a garden railway are just so much greater than on an indoor railway. On my railway a Bachmann GWR 2251 on speed step 30 would take 22 mins to do a full circuit round the railway. I used NCE DCC 5 amp Pro Cab Radio but it's availability is limited internationally. It's also advisable to have a secure shed or out building of some kind to run the trains into for storage as putting trains onto the track and taking trains off the track becomes tedious. On a garden railway a 12 coach train is a real possibility as are 80 wagon freight trains. Something that's not really possible indoors except on the largest of layouts. Oddly enough highly detailed locos, wagons and coaches aren't such a priority on a garden railway as the viewing distance isn't 300mm it's more like 10-15m and you just won't see all that extra detail. 

As for track work Peco Streamline code 100 is the one to use. Forget code 75 as the extra depth of code 100 allows of tiny bits of dirt to fall between the sleepers and not interfere with the operation of the trains. I've found that Peco Insulfrog points are the way to go outside as Electrofrogs need a point motor and extra wiring to make operate properly. The center spring needs to be oiled or greased as it's made of steel and if it rusts it will break and the replacements are an absolute to install. All rail joints also need a gap of about 2mm to allow for expansion. 

Wiring. I used 2.5mm stranded wire for a bus wire and 1mm solid copper for droppers from the rails to the bus. All rail joints were bonded with the 1mm solid copper wire the rail joiners only being used to keep the track aligned. If you don't bond the rail joints dirt will get into the rail joint and running will be a jerky affair. All my wire was bought from an electrical wholesaler on 100m reels.

It's said that gradients on a 4mm garden railway should only rise to about 1 in 80. Most R-T-R steam era models today have great detail but anything other than level track and they struggle with 8-12  coaches. Of course one can use the Power Base system from DCC Concepts which alleviates the problem with stainless steel magnets under the track, but it's not cheap. I think a grade of 1 in 100 outdoors is best but even with the most careful preparation of the track bed the grade will often be 1 in 90 to 1 in 110.

One of the most overlooked aspects of modelling in the smaller scales outdoors is that indoor construction techniques had no place outside. One is operating in the real world. Mother nature will do as she wants and she doesn't recognise scale or gauge. Very solid construction is the order of the day. If you use indoor methods of construction your railway will fall to bits in a matter of weeks.

Rail cleaning has to be carried out before every running session and maintenance is of a higher priority. Don't let little problems develop onto big ones....like I did.   

[faulcon1]

Following on from my previous diatribe you are your own civil engineer what sort of garden railway you have will depend to a large extent the lay of your land. If your block slopes steeply then long mainline trains will be out of the question. If you don't like bending down or crouching a high level railway maybe the order of the day. However it will be ugly and in no way blend into the garden you have. Even a low level line should blend into the garden and not stand out from it. It should be a part of it. Access is very important to all areas of the railway so don't plant spikey bushes just where you may need to reattach a track or rail joint bond. A sharp jab from a bush with a hot soldering iron could lead to a very nasty experience.

Bridges are nice to have outside but make sure that they can stand the rigors of an outdoor life. It may seem odd but a G scale plastic bridge would survive despite being huge compared to 4mm scale trains. But then the Forth Bridge is huge and makes the trains that run across it look N scale when viewed from ground level.

Viaducts can be built in concrete which is great for outside.

Tunnels can be ok for outside but if you want a long tunnel then top access hatches will have to be built into it to enable track cleaning and retrieval of derailed stock. Tunnel mouths will also need a plug of some kind because native wildlife will look upon the tunnel as a haven with bedding (leaves and debris) thrown in.

Station platforms are best made from concrete as you can stand on them and you're bound to at some stage. Hornby Scaledale or Bachmann Scenecraft platforms are ok too as being made of resin they have no problems outside even on the hottest days. But they're only available in straight or pre curved sections to a certain radii. If you want a curved platform to fit the curvature of your line then concrete is the only way to go. It can be coloured during the mixing stage to a shade you want and made to fit the curve of your line.

But also decide what type of line you want. Out and back, end to end or round and round. Out and back from an out building is great providing you can see the whole outdoor line from inside the building. End to end is more prototypical. A round and round even if it goes into and out of an out building is probably best as you can sit outside and every so often trains pass you by whilst you crack open another bottle of red. Drink enough of that red and you'll be seeing twice as many trains. Also a round and round railway is great for entertaining like minded friends who may wish to run their trains on your railway.

Also try not to become too engrossed when running the trains. Keep an eye on the weather as mother nature won't send an email to your smart phone if she's about to turn on the water.

Despite all my doom and gloom 4mm railways outside really can be fun.

[totonlover]

For outdoor 4mm railway modelling, the best source is not a book but a website (whisper it!):

 

http://www.oogardenrailway.co.uk/

 

Just registered, thanks for the point in the right direction

[totonlover]

I'm looking to build a Garden Railway, with the intention of running scale length trains, some neigh on 20feet long

 

It looks like people are using decking wood to lay track on, does anyone know if hardwood is worth the premium of paying the extra for?

 

 I'm looking to run (eventually) a 250ft dog bone layout with runs into my garage. The track will be laid around the perimeter of my long (100 ft x 60 ft) "L" shaped garden.

 

The track will be placed on staggered railway sleepers laid on their sides hopefully showing the rail chair indents to create a "brick effect". The sleepers will be laid 2 high creating a low wall to keep the track out of harms way and creating a boundary round the garden.

 

This will give the wall of sleepers a height of around 20 inches, I then plan to top the sleepers with decking board (not sure if hardwood is worth the premium or softwood will suffice) Then overlay the deck board with roofing felt to weatherproof it.

 

This seems to be how its generally done , but i'm all ears for advice from people who have built Garden Railways.

 

One problem i'm getting stuck with is I'm building a fiddle yard in the garage, its going to be built to one side against the wall to keep its footprint low, 3ft is the maximum reach for comfort, this allows for 15/16 running lines and a table top height of about 1m works well.

 

The problem this gives me is a differential in height between the garage and the running track in the garden, of about 50% or 500mm/20" 

 

My only solution is to build a helix in the corner or the garden to get the levels corresponding, this would still be quite a project in itself dropping 500mm on a 5foot radius Helix.

 

I know the layout is Big but even so the difference is too big to make up the difference in levels.

[faulcon1]

I have to tell you Totonlover that I've no experience of using a combination of old railway sleepers with decking boards and then covered with roofing felt. I live in Australia and roofing felt isn't available here. I used 4x4 treated pine timber attached to galvanised stirrups and they were concreted 600mm into the ground..all 86 of them. My railway boards were 4x2 treated pine. The pine was pre treated with copper chrome arsnate giving the timber a greenish/blue tinge. Over here we have white ants which devour untreated timber even well seasoned hardwood is no obstacle to white ants so all houses are now constructed with the pre treated timber.

It can however be painted so my frames were made of the pre treated timber and were topped with 15mm exterior ply which was also painted. It was the ply that gave way. The layers didn't separate it just rotted away. Due to our very hot summers I installed hinged covers to keep the heat away from the track as much as possible. Even on 47 degree days the track under the covers (which were painted gloss white) was only warm.

I'd dearly love to have another outdoor/garden railway in 4mm scale but this time I'd have it running through an out building and it would be close to the ground. I have a bit of a slope on my ground but a fairly wide block and with DCC Concepts Power Base long train haulage is no longer the problem it used to be.

I'd have two railways in the out building an indoor line to operate on days when it rains or it's just too hot as in 38+ degrees and the garden railway which would run in one side and curve in a large "U" shape and run out the other side.

[RJS1977]

I alluded in a different thread to a 'garden and shed' layout I had once sketched up. I've put the shed element into Scarm:

 

 

The blue line represents the extent of the shed. Obviously the garden element would depend on the site, but it is envisaged that there would be no pointwork outside. The four lines leaving the bottom of the shed are:

 

Top line - single track branch line. Envisaged to terminate in a single platform terminus with no points and to be worked by an auto train or DMU. Could be worked automatically if a way could be found of preventing collisions on the diamond crossing.

Second line - Up Main. Would run alongside the Down Main for the required distance before entering a balloon loop and returning as the Down Main.

Third line - Carriage headshunt - would run out into the garden between the Up and Down lines for 6-8 feet or so before terminating at a (diode protected) buffer stop.

Fourth line - Down Main.

 

 

The two sidings above the bay platform are carriage sidings, the points in the top right corner lead to the goods yard and loco depot. (Note there is no need for a turntable as locos from the arrival platform would back on to the Down Main, then forwards along the through platform and round the outside of the shed, whilst locos for departing trains would go on to the Up Main and reverse into the departures platform. The layout could either be operated to a timetable from in the shed or one or more trains could just be left to lap the circuit while one relaxes in the garden!

[faulcon1]

For my self I'd have four lines outside. Yes one can run more than one train per line on double track outside due the length of run, but if on your own you have to keep your whits about you to avoid one train rear ending another. 

[RJS1977]

It shouldn't be too difficult to amend the plan to give a four-track mainline outside - I'll see what I can do.

 

Alternatively, it should be possible to arrange things so that a train on entering the shed trips a sensor which starts off a second train held further round the loop, then stops when it reaches where the first train was - my father has such an arrangement on his loft layout. On the plan above, that would probably work better if the plan was flipped about its horizontal axis so that the stationary train is held in the platform. Flipping the plan would also make the goods sidings trailing ones - why didn't I spot that before?

[RJS1977]

It shouldn't be too difficult to amend the plan to give a four-track mainline outside - I'll see what I can do.

 

 

 

Not as simple an exercise as I thought. Yes, you can of course run an extra circuit right round the outside, but you then find that on the reversing loops both lines run in the same direction! Trying to redesign the station throat to allow for the main lines to be Up Down Up Down without breaking my rules of:

 

a) No points outside

and

b) Only the carriage headshunt to involve a polarity reversal

 

is proving somewhat tricky without drastically reducing the length of at least one platform road. The tricky part of it is providing access from the carriage headshunt to the carriage sidings whilst crossing the access from the upper platform road to the outer circuit.

 

One thing that is apparent is that instead of one platform being for arrivals and one for departures, both platforms now need to be used for both purposes in order to meet condition (b).

 

Hang on, I may have an idea....

[RJS1977]

This is the best 4-track version I've come up with so far (carriage sidings now between the platforms a la Bath Green Park). Note that the door would be in the right hand end of the shed, accessed via a lifting flap in the reversing loop.

 

Lines in the bottom left corner are (from the top):

 

* Down Relief

* Up Relief

* Carriage headshunt

* Down Main

* Up Main

* Branch

 

I am wondering if there might be a way of straightening out the line across the middle and moving the operating well and door to the left hand end.

[RJS1977]

Revised 4-track plan, avoiding the need to build a lifting/removable section on the reversing loop to enter the shed.

 

The operating well is a little smaller than I would have liked but could be enlarged by removing/relocating the short spur in the goods yard and making the through platform narrower (Hornby platforms have been used purely for illiustrative purposes). The loco depot could probably be tweaked a bit - I may have made the incline to the coaling stage longer than it needed to be, reducing loco storage space unnecessarily (of course using an LMS Carnforth-style stage would remove the need for an incline altogether). I am quite pleased though with the way angling the terminal roads and carriage sidings worked out.

 

The central road between the through platforms is for anticlockwise (Up) goods trains arriving at/departing from the yard. The spur off it to the left is a loco spur, the spur to the right is for brake vans. An incoming goods would come into the centre road, back the van into the right hand spur, then draw forwards, the train engine would uncouple and run onto the left hand spur. The yard pilot would then shunt the wagons to their respective sidings. For a departing train, the shunter would make up the train, shunt it into the centre road, the train engine would back the train into the brake van spur, pick up the brake van and head out. This arrangement maximises the length of train which can be made up in the loop.