2mm Andy Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi there. I have just downloaded the parts list and instructions with the intention of doing an O3 as my first essay into 2mm chassis building (as opposed to rewheeling Farish 24s and 108/101s) and was just about to put pen to paper on a shop order. However, I can't find any reference to making the jackshaft. Will I have to make up two stub axles and use a muff or is there something else that will do the job? I have trawled back through this thread and can't see anything there to help although I may have missed something. Any help gratefully received John John, You will need to make up the two half-axles as you describe, and connect them using a plain muff. You can use the axle steel for the half-axles, and any of the plain muffs will do. Fixing the flycranks to the axle might be a problem - I haven't quite got that far with my chassis yet. Hope this helps Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Doncaster Green Posted June 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2012 John, You will need to make up the two half-axles as you describe, and connect them using a plain muff. You can use the axle steel for the half-axles, and any of the plain muffs will do. Fixing the flycranks to the axle might be a problem - I haven't quite got that far with my chassis yet. Hope this helps Andy Thanks for that Andy. I will now complete my order and mull over the attachment while I await delivery. If I can make this one work I'm wondering if I can use the same chassis for an O5 or the D2500-2519 series - wheel size and axle spacing are near (ish). john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 John, The Hudswell Clarke D2500-19 should fit, although the wheel spacing is slightly out. The 05 is slightly less straightforward as the jackshaft is a lot closer to the trailing wheel than the 03/04 chassis allows. I assume you're aware that Judith Edge kits produce 2mm scale nickel silver etches for the early and late versions of the 05 shunters? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Doncaster Green Posted June 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2012 John, The Hudswell Clarke D2500-19 should fit, although the wheel spacing is slightly out. The 05 is slightly less straightforward as the jackshaft is a lot closer to the trailing wheel than the 03/04 chassis allows. I assume you're aware that Judith Edge kits produce 2mm scale nickel silver etches for the early and late versions of the 05 shunters? Andy Thanks Andy. I didn't realise Judith Edge did the O5 in 2mm - I was aware of the 4mm version. I was actually going to try and scratchbuild the body! For the Hudswell Clarke I saw in the N Gauge Journal that Parkwood are doing a resin body for the later series (D2510-2519) - the picture is actually mounted on a Farsh O4 chassis. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thanks Andy. I didn't realise Judith Edge did the O5 in 2mm - I was aware of the 4mm version. I was actually going to try and scratchbuild the body! For the Hudswell Clarke I saw in the N Gauge Journal that Parkwood are doing a resin body for the later series (D2510-2519) - the picture is actually mounted on a Farsh O4 chassis. I saw the N Gauge Journal article on the resin bodies, I was very underwhelmed. If that is the only "kit", I would advise scratchbuilding. The Judith Edge 05 etch is the 4mm one shot down, so its a set of etched parts, to Michael Edge's usual standards. But, no work done to the etch to make it compatible with 2mm parts and no castings/mouldings. In its favour, its a fairly big shunter, the bonnet area is quite large compared to other small BR shunters, so it should not be particularly difficult to get a good mechanism and lots of weight inside one. I covered making the skirted 4-wheeled DY1 version (Ipswich docks, later Goole docks) in a 2mm magazine article some years ago. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thanks Andy. I didn't realise Judith Edge did the O5 in 2mm - I was aware of the 4mm version. I was actually going to try and scratchbuild the body! For the Hudswell Clarke I saw in the N Gauge Journal that Parkwood are doing a resin body for the later series (D2510-2519) - the picture is actually mounted on a Farsh O4 chassis. John I'd agree with Nigel's verdict on the Parkwood body. BH Enterprises sell an N gauge etched brass body kit for this - it's a shoot down from the Oakville Models O gauge kit, so not designed as a 2mm or N gauge kit and not as much detail as the Judith Edge etches for the 05. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 John, You will need to make up the two half-axles as you describe, and connect them using a plain muff. You can use the axle steel for the half-axles, and any of the plain muffs will do. Fixing the flycranks to the axle might be a problem - I haven't quite got that far with my chassis yet. Hope this helps Andy I would recommend using some brass rod instead of the axle steel. You will find it easier to solder to the flycrank. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted June 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2012 I would recommend using some brass rod instead of the axle steel. You will find it easier to solder to the flycrank. Chris I used axle steel without any problems. Most brass rod is 1/16" rather than 1.5mm and thus too big to be a good push fit in the muffs whilst the axle steel is just right. You will need to set the fly-cranks out further than the wheels since the coupling rods are in two parts, as per the prototype, those connecting the fly-cranks being outside those of the wheels. In this respect I found I had to reverse the second rod layers on the fly-crank rods (the bosses) at one end in order to clear behind the steps and keep everything in line. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogieman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 On the subject of etched kits/chassis can someone advise me as a beginner on using the 2mmSA black axle muffs. They seem so tight as to be almost impossible to press the driver's stub axle into them without giving one cause to fear bending or damaging the delicate etched chassis or ending up with a bent and wobbly wheel. So my question is should the hole be eased in some way and if so how without making them intolerably loose. I've tried using a 1.5mm hand reamer but it removes no material from the hole and certainly does nothing to ease fitting them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-2mm Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) On the subject of etched kits/chassis can someone advise me as a beginner on using the 2mmSA black axle muffs. They seem so tight as to be almost impossible to press the driver's stub axle into them without giving one cause to fear bending or damaging the delicate etched chassis or ending up with a bent and wobbly wheel. So my question is should the hole be eased in some way and if so how without making them intolerably loose. I've tried using a 1.5mm hand reamer but it removes no material from the hole and certainly does nothing to ease fitting them. I made a D bit reamer (as explained in the Build an 0-6-0 2mm booklet) from a length of axle steel to tackle this job. All this involves is taking a piece of axle steel, file a flat at one end approximately 1/2" long so it resembles a D when looked at from the end and then file a slight bevel on the end. Then you have to temper the steel by heating it until it's red hot then plunge it into cold water. You can then use an oil stone on the flat to make the cutting edges nice and sharp. That's how I do it anyway and it works quite well. Edited June 20, 2012 by Paul-2mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted June 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2012 Another useful tip, which I picked up from Nigel Hunt, is to file a couple of flats onto the muff which greatly aids gripping it in a pair of pliars - useful when reaming the muff and also getting the wheels in and out as well as tweaking the quartering. Jerry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 I made a D bit reamer (as explained in the Build an 0-6-0 2mm booklet) from a length of axle steel to tackle this job. All this involves is taking a piece of axle steel, file a flat at one end approximately 1/2" long so it resembles a D when looked at from the end and then file a slight bevel on the end. Then you have to temper the steel by heating it until it's red hot then plunge it into cold water. You can then use an oil stone on the flat to make the cutting edges nice and sharp. That's how I do it anyway and it works quite well. I bought myself a set of drills with very small increments: 1.5mm, 1.51, 1.52 etc. These I can run into the muffs until I reach the desired size. A general comment on the muffs - they are made tight as it's relatively easier to open them out than fill them in! Tolerance reasons on them and the wheel axles mean we cannot make them exactly to a certain tightness of fit. A significant proportion would then have to be discarded as too loose. Plus each loco builder has his own preference of how tight he wants them to be. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogieman Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I bought myself a set of drills with very small increments: 1.5mm, 1.51, 1.52 etc. These I can run into the muffs until I reach the desired size. A general comment on the muffs - they are made tight as it's relatively easier to open them out than fill them in! Tolerance reasons on them and the wheel axles mean we cannot make them exactly to a certain tightness of fit. A significant proportion would then have to be discarded as too loose. Plus each loco builder has his own preference of how tight he wants them to be. Chris That sounds interesting idea Chris. But where do you buy drills in 0.01mm increments? And when I do find some what do you recommend going up to - 1.54 or more or not so far? Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) That sounds interesting idea Chris. But where do you buy drills in 0.01mm increments? And when I do find some what do you recommend going up to - 1.54 or more or not so far? Tony I don't think there is a definitive answer - you go up as far as you need to and feel comfortable with. I like to be able to push the wheels in to the correct back to back and have them firm enough to set the quartering but not too tight, then introduce thin superglue into the air hole drilled in the middle of the muff to lock the axles to the muffs. Others prefer to have the muffs a very tight push fit and not use glue. (Edit : No. 53mm drill bit is 1.52mm dia. (source - 2mm Scale Association 2012 Yearbook) - that might help) Andy Edited June 21, 2012 by 2mm Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted June 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2012 I use a clock makers broach to slowly enlarge the muffs broaches are also very useful in enlarging the etched bearing holes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 That sounds interesting idea Chris. But where do you buy drills in 0.01mm increments? And when I do find some what do you recommend going up to - 1.54 or more or not so far? Tony Sadly I have now forgotten :-) But it was at an online supplier, and I think not a model railway one. CHris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I use a clock makers broach to slowly enlarge the muffs broaches are also very useful in enlarging the etched bearing holes I have struggled to get the broaches to enlarge the holes in the muffs - it may be that my broaches were not sharp-enough, but the acetal material I think the muffs are made from is rather difficult to cut/machine (I recall one former chief shopkeeper likened it to trying to turn noodles in a lathe!) Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted June 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2012 I have struggled to get the broaches to enlarge the holes in the muffs - it may be that my broaches were not sharp-enough, but the acetal material I think the muffs are made from is rather difficult to cut/machine (I recall one former chief shopkeeper likened it to trying to turn noodles in a lathe!) Andy Andy I hold the broach and the muff in two pin vice's seems to work for me Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted June 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2012 Another useful tip, which I picked up from Nigel Hunt, is to file a couple of flats onto the muff which greatly aids gripping it in a pair of pliars - useful when reaming the muff and also getting the wheels in and out as well as tweaking the quartering. Jerry As Jerry says, I file flats across the muffs, and this makes it easier to drill holes (c. 1mm diameter) through the muffs, say 2mm either side of centre. The holes are to drop superglue into when the wheels are quartered and set at the correct back to back. I have also started filing a flat on the last 2mm or so of the axle, or sawing a little nick about 2mm from the end, to give the glue something to key onto. I use a tapered reamer to open out the holes in the muffs, until they are a 'tightish' fit on the axles. As Andy said previously, this can be quite difficult because of the material the muffs are made from, but sharp reamers do help. Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Funny, I didn't find them tight - maybe it was my batch of wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have struggled to get the broaches to enlarge the holes in the muffs - it may be that my broaches were not sharp-enough, but the acetal material I think the muffs are made from is rather difficult to cut/machine (I recall one former chief shopkeeper likened it to trying to turn noodles in a lathe!) Andy The problem with broaches are that they soon end up cutting on a large section of the muff all at once. Plus the hole will be slightly tapered - at least in theory not good for wobble. With my drills I end up with a parallel hole and the reaming out is much easier. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I press the wheels in and have never given any thought to opening up the hole in the muff. It is hard work setting the quartering sometimes so I may well tweak the fit next time I put a loco together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2012 I press the wheels in and have never given any thought to opening up the hole in the muff. It is hard work setting the quartering sometimes so I may well tweak the fit next time I put a loco together. do you wear your underpants on the outside as well 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 do you wear your underpants on the outside as well I think you have me mixed up with my brother. I'd love to blame the fact that it's late but I really can't spot this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted June 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think you have me mixed up with my brother. I'd love to blame the fact that it's late but I really can't spot this one. this is what I was thinking given I can not get a wheel in a muff unless I ream it out first 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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