The Border Reiver Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Hi here are some quote from Trains Illustrated - Motive Power Miscellany which are applicableApril 1961"In accordance with Midlands Line dieselisation programme, on February 6th D14 with Holbeck men in charge made its debut on a diagram covering the 3.31pm Leeds - St Pancras 'Waverley' and on Feb 20 D15 took up the roster beginning with the 9.19am Leeds - St Pancras"June 1961"As expected, from April 17 the 'Thames Clyde', 'Waverley' and other London - Leeds expresses became type 4 diesel hauled"July 1961"The Canal staff told a reader in May that they expected diesels to be working throughout between London an Edinburgh on the up and down 'Waverley', the 9.10pm St Pancras - Edinburgh and the 10.5pm back by early July"August 1961"With commencement of the summer timetable BR Sulzer type 4 diesels began through working to Glasgow on the 'Thames Clyde' in both directions and some other day and night services. A correspondant who was at Carlisle on June 17 noted another of these locomotives engaged in crew training on the Waverley route and gathered that they would take over the 'Waverley' throughout between Leeds and Edinburgh on July 3 and local trains would be handed over in due course to Birmingham/Sulzer type 2 diesels" Note that it was the 'regular' trains that were diesel hauled. Having spent most summer Saturdays on Carlisle station from 1961 to 1966, most of the reliefs, especially from Glasgow, were steam hauled during that period. Here is a scan from the October 1961 TI. The caption says "D10 on the 'Waverley' near Riccarton Junction". This is clearly incorrect as the loco has split headcode boxes. Below that is another peak on the down 'Waverley' approaching Canal Junction signal box. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I hope this doesn't come over as an argument - it's not meant to be. First, thanks for the quotes from Trains Illustrated, they're very nostalgic. 'Motive power miscellany' was always the first section I turned to each month. Reading them I still think it's possible that there were steam-hauled, scheduled, Leeds-Glasgow trains into 1962. As I read it, the June 1961 note refers only to the parts of the trips south of Leeds. and the August note talks about the .." 'Thames Clyde' in both directions and some other day and night services" between Leeds and Glasgow, implying that there were others that the Peaks were not handling. I agree that reliefs were steam-hauled for quite a while after the main trains went over to diesels. At the time of my trip on the Thames-Clyde in September 1965, the relief was still regularly steam powered. I just missed it that morning, and was delighted when the two 'Fives' turned up as power for the main train. If you were at Citadel on summer Saturdays during those years, we must have passed each other a few times! Anyway, this is getting OT for a Waverley Route thread, so I'll stop there. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) 3rd January '67 and the new order is all in its old livery, shattering the crisp minty silence up at Whitrope.... http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=44953 EDIT: incorrect - the third vehicle is in blue and grey I reckon. Edited October 14, 2013 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 3rd January '67 and the new order is all in its old livery, shattering the crisp minty silence up at Whitrope.... http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=44953 EDIT: incorrect - the third vehicle is in blue and grey I reckon. Definitely blue and grey, but can anyone identify the Peak? It appears to be a single number. Attached scan of my original photo. (Note the left hand handle grip of my Velocette just in view!) The photo was also taken with some Agfa roll film I'd been persuaded to try by the local shop in Hawick: it was colour negative, but would give b/w prints (allegedly). It wasn't a complete success. Railscot ref 22999, 22905 and 29747 were also with the same film and faulty camera. Bruce. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I'd put my shirt on it being D14. When you look at the full size photo the gangway end doors become evident. That puts it as D11-15. The shape of the figures is indistinct but lends itself to D14 I reckon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The combination of low angle, climbing gradient and surrounding features makes it look like the Peak is emerging from the earth's core. Magic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I believe, although don't quote me that D14 was the only one left with nose doors in 1967. I seem to recall researching this a year or so back as I wanted one with nose doors and my period is 1967ish and the others had been converted to class 46 style boxes. I may of course be wrong so please don't take it as gospel, but I recall picking this one for my subject. I also believe that this one is the only one of the nose door versions to be "preserved"..... Please correct me if I am, (probably), wrong. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Conversion to single centre panel of those five started in '65. The one in the photo was quite possibly the last in traffic unmodified. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Conversion to single centre panel of those five started in '65. The one in the photo was quite possibly the last in traffic unmodified. Is it the one that is "preserved" too Chard? I use the word in its loosest possible sense of course..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Is it the one that is "preserved" too Chard? I use the word in its loosest possible sense of course..... It most certainly is the one, poor old thing. Doesn't stand too much of a chance, by all accounts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 It most certainly is the one, poor old thing. Doesn't stand too much of a chance, by all accounts. It is a shame Matt, given it's unique status, (don't think any of the other 1st 5 exist). I understand it has nothing in the way of internal componenents, but if a class 47 power unit could be transposed, (or those from a foreign loco - I believe there is a class in Eastern Europe with the same types of power unit), it would be great to see her running again. Anywho, that's a conversation for another thread. Cheers. Sean. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 D15 at Kirkby Stephen with S64 in 1967. Everything about this shot is WONDERFUL. http://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6435561537/in/set-72157628231522759/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 (edited) Couldn't agree more Chard, it's a fantastic picture. I didn't realise any of the split box/nose door combinations made it to Rail Blue whilst in original condition. Another detail difference I've noticed whilst researching a future project is that D11 and D12 had small vertical recesses in the nose doors so as to avoid colliding with the headcode box sides whearas D14 and D15 did not have this feature. I have not found out what the score is with D13 as yet. Killing two birds with one stone, I'm after an old Bachmann class 44 body if anyone has a spare. No prizes for guessing what my future project will be, given I have a Bachmann 45 120 waiting to go under the knife..... Cheers. Sean. Edited December 22, 2013 by the penguin of doom 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 (edited) And to illustrate my point above, I found this comparison..... http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/24041160@N02/6958814945/ I don't know if the poster visits RMweb, but he does note that D13 did not have the recesses. Cheers. Sean. Edited December 22, 2013 by the penguin of doom 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I didn't realise any of the split box/nose door combinations made it to Rail Blue whilst in original condition. THAT hadn't occurred to me! And it was staring me in the face. Very interesting, as she'll go in for heavy overhaul at Brush and come out with single centre headcode panel within the year I reckon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) A Peak on the Waverley, literally 1S64. At Holbeck. D15 all-over green. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/9094864671/in/pool-peaks/ Edited May 2, 2014 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62440 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Can anyone help with the number of the locomotive heading the last Up Waverley in September 1968? I was asked tonight by someone who had a penny quashed by it ~ he's almost certain that it was a Peak. Many thanks, Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 According to Wikipedia, it was a Peak, class 45 No. D60 Lytham St Annes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 According to Wikipedia, it was a Peak, class 45 No. D60 Lytham St Annes. Cross-purposes! 60 ran the last up sleeper - which was the last train. That was January 6th 1969. Bruce means the last up Waverley daytime working 1M91 of the summer '68 timetable. I need to check dates - I'm certain this is captured on photos, but it's something I'd never thought to work out!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37175 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Can anyone help with the number of the locomotive heading the last Up Waverley in September 1968? I was asked tonight by someone who had a penny quashed by it ~ he's almost certain that it was a Peak. Many thanks, Bruce The RCTS RO isn't very helpful here sadly. For September '68 it simply lists D53 Royal Tank Regiment, D89 Honourable Artillery Company and D112 as Peaks having been on the Waverley Route that month with no mention of specific trains or even dates. However, digressing a little, it does list an interesting move in D9000 Royal Scots Grey being taken off the down Flying Scotsman immediately on arrival at Waverley station to work the 1610hrs Edinburgh-Hawick on Saturday 21st September 1968. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) The RCTS RO isn't very helpful here sadly. For September '68 it simply lists D53 Royal Tank Regiment, D89 Honourable Artillery Company and D112 as Peaks having been on the Waverley Route that month with no mention of specific trains or even dates. However, digressing a little, it does list an interesting move in D9000 Royal Scots Grey being taken off the down Flying Scotsman immediately on arrival at Waverley station to work the 1610hrs Edinburgh-Hawick on Saturday 21st September 1968. Pictures of D53 and D89 on the route or related services like the T-C during that period are on RailScot, maybe not coincidentally. That Deltic move is awesome. I wonder how many Deltic workings there actually were on the route's own timetabled trains, rather than diverted ECML expresses. Granted 21 of the production machines are known to have been logged at Hawick, I'd love to know how often the 04.10 or 06.48 produced, for example. Edited December 19, 2015 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6435560997/in/photostream Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 On the last weekend, D43 worked one of the car trains, 3M45 0955 Bathgate - Kings Norton, over the Waverley. This was the last southbound, and last ever through freight working over the line. Pictured here, in the condition that she would've performed that working, is the centre panel D-prefix BFYE machine: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7406/10609152863_5faec9645d_b.jpg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) Righty-ho! Thanks to Dougie Squance's foresight in November '68, and Bruce Mac's diligent stewardship of his collection, we get to share a hitherto unseen aspect of the route's routine operation, 1M82 the up 'beds' calling at Gala. https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=56148 So, note the empty trackbed for the Peebles side of the island platform. The sturdy canopy looming in the background beneath Station Brae road bridge. But crucially - the GSYP Peak at this late stage in the line's existence. Can anyone make out is it a split or single piece headcode? EDIT to add: There are a possible 20 locos to choose from: Split centre headcode: 39, 45. 112, 117, 122, 130, 136 Single piece headcode: 138, 147, 154, 155, 157, 165, 166, 168, 176, 182, 188, 189, 193 I have eliminated locos in the incorrect livery in November 1968, namers, and those not believed to have worked through Hawick. I've blown up the image to the verge of pixellation, and my money would be on 136, but if we could get a view on the headcode type it would assist matters no end. EDIT2 to add: if we are assuming the small rectangular grille at #2 end is plated over, then we can eliminate all the 46s except 182 and 193. Edited August 16, 2016 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I'm inclined to say it's a split headcode loco - with a single box the four characters were evenly spaced but it looks to me as if there might be a larger gap in the middle. My only other comment is that I wouldn't necessarily eliminate a loco because it doesn't appear in Kenneth Gray's list - that is very much a work in progress and new locos are still occasionally found in photographs. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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