Class 85

[adb968008]

After a single production run? I seriously doubt that.

?

 

Theyve done 5 so far..

31-676 E3058 - Plain blue, 2 pantographs

31-676k 85101 - Railfreight three tone grey (As Doncaster works open day 2003)

31-677 E3056 - 1970’s blue

31-678 85026 - 1980’s blue

31-679 E3095 - 1960’s blue, HYE

 

With 2 further announced.

31-676a E3057 plain blue, 2 pantographs

31-678a 85040 1980’s blue, weathered

 

 

I know it will get a negative response saying it, but.. Electrics dont sell as well.. ive got all 5 of the above, all for between £50 and £89, i dont think ive as lucky with any other class.

That said, weathered ones wont be joining me, and ive got my transition period covered wth the 3 E’s i already have, so even at half the new RRP price the other new E blue one hasnt a space with me either.

 

I could consider another unweathered TOPs blue one, but...

 

The problem with repeat runs of pre-released liveries, is i can buy the last release at a much lower price, and renumber it myself.

Edited January 28, 2019 by adb968008

[wombatofludham]

 Who is left that is going to suck one up at £180??

 

 

Me for one.  I want another Banger Blue 85, not a cheaper Railroad 66, or some other "discretionary spend", and the prices of all previous releases of 85 have gone up significantly on Thiefbay and are hard to find elsewhere, certainly not under £100.  So, as I want another blue 85, I have no choice but to purchase this new model or do without.

 

 

The problem with repeat runs of pre-released liveries, is i can buy the last release at a much lower price, and renumber it myself.

 

Good luck with that, eBay currently has the pre-TOPs rail blue 85 at between £75 and £120 but is unsuitable for renumbering as a TOPS version without some serious modelling intervention, and about 9 of the electric blue with yellow bib versions between £95 and £140.  No TOPS Br blue versions currently for sale.  A quick search of Hattons only pulled up the two new announcements (both with an estimated £152 price tag), Rails had none currently for sale, and a global Google search for a TOPs 85 (31-678) could only pull up some for sale in New Zealand and Australia.

 

I've noticed second hand prices for the earlier releases of non-yellow bib AL5s and TOPS 85s have climbed a lot recently and even the pre-TOPs rail blue examples are firming up, although that £75 pre-TOPs 85 just might find a buyer tonight as I do need a second example to renumber...

 

Clearly the loco has sold in sufficient quantities for Bachmann not only to keep it in the catalogue but to invest serious design and production slots to the 90.  I doubt Kader would have allowed Bachmann to spend significant amounts of their money on developing the new model if the overall sales trajectory hadn't been satisfactory.

[shunny]

I also have this pre-ordered and plan to buy it as looking for another tops blue 85. The model as others have said is very good so I am sure I will be happy once I get it on the front of my Bachmann freightliner flats.

['CHARD]

?

 

Theyve done 5 so far..

31-676 E3058 - Plain blue, 2 pantographs

31-676k 85101 - Railfreight three tone grey (As Doncaster works open day 2003)

31-677 E3056 - 1970’s blue

31-678 85026 - 1980’s blue

31-679 E3095 - 1960’s blue, HYE

 

With 2 further announced.

31-676a E3057 plain blue, 2 pantographs

31-678a 85040 1980’s blue, weathered

 

 

That looks like two production runs to me, rather than seven.

[Opelsi]

Here is one I had a hack at earlier - well one from two actually!

Maybe not quite prototypical but is what I wanted - having the domino treatment.

I do think Bachmann will rerun these at some point in the future.

[GordonC]

13 hours ago, Opelsi said:

Here is one I had a hack at earlier - well one from two actually!

Maybe not quite prototypical but is what I wanted - having the domino treatment.

I do think Bachmann will rerun these at some point in the future.

 

I always think with the domino headcode that they could do with the domino as perhaps a sticker on the front of the glazing rather than behind. When its behind it gives an odd recessed look

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by GordonC

[lyneux]

14 hours ago, Opelsi said:

Here is one I had a hack at earlier - well one from two actually!

Maybe not quite prototypical but is what I wanted - having the domino treatment.

I do think Bachmann will rerun these at some point in the future.

 

It looks like you've back-dated one of the marker lights ones (as it has the roof tanks). Did you cut out the plated panel with the marker lights or does it remove easily? If so, I'd happily give you a few quid for the marker light panels as one of my projects is to convert E3056 to mid-late 80s condition 81.

 

Guy

[Opelsi]

12 hours ago, lyneux said:

 

It looks like you've back-dated one of the marker lights ones (as it has the roof tanks). Did you cut out the plated panel with the marker lights or does it remove easily? If so, I'd happily give you a few quid for the marker light panels as one of my projects is to convert E3056 to mid-late 80s condition 81.

 

Guy

 

Sorry Guy,

No spares left.

I originally tried hacking out the headcode panel with little success on an 85026 model.

Then got another model, this time E3056 with headcode blinds and used that as a base taking some roof detail from the first one to create a hybrid and replacing the blinds for 'Dominos'!

 

[lyneux]

No worries... it was a long shot!

 

Good to understand how you achieved the dominos in the end.

 

Best wishes,

 

Guy

[rodent279]

20 hours ago, lyneux said:

 

It looks like you've back-dated one of the marker lights ones (as it has the roof tanks). Did you cut out the plated panel with the marker lights or does it remove easily? If so, I'd happily give you a few quid for the marker light panels as one of my projects is to convert E3056 to mid-late 80s condition 81.

 

Guy

Do you mean class 81? Good luck, big job.

[lyneux]

8 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Do you mean class 81? Good luck, big job.

Yes, similar to Kev’s work here:

 

Not a priority project at the moment mind...

Edited March 24, 2020 by lyneux

[rodent279]

Impressive stuff. I did think about scratch building a class 83. Never really had the guts to start though.

[ThaneofFife]

i think the next AC loco we will see is the 81.  i would also love a domino headcode 81. 

[rodent279]

If an 81 is released, I'll be placing an order.

[adb968008]

How much different is a class 81 to a class 85 anyway ?

 

This is the liliput class 81 next to a Bachmann class 85.

 

i think it stands up very well considering its age (ive refitted it to a Bachmann 85 chassis, as below the body they are the same), above the chassis, theres not much difference either.

[rodent279]

There's a lot of detail differences on the body, and the bogies are different though they do look similar.

[John Tomlinson]

May I ask all you A.C. electric specialists, is the Triang Hornby 81, if it is an 81, of any use at all, or indeed even vaguely like the prototype?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

John.

[drgj]

The Tri-ang Hornby model was a class 81 and may be the same moulding as the Trix.

 

 

If anyone makes another electric it should be an 83 or 84 as they look a bit different and would create variety. The 81 is too similar to an 85.

[TravisM]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

May I ask all you A.C. electric specialists, is the Triang Hornby 81, if it is an 81, of any use at all, or indeed even vaguely like the prototype?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

John.

I read ages ago that the Hornby Class 81 is a bit of a hybrid between a 81 and 82 and was easier to make a passable Class 82 than correct the errors for a Class 81.

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, drgj said:

The Tri-ang Hornby model was a class 81 and may be the same moulding as the Trix.

 

 

If anyone makes another electric it should be an 83 or 84 as they look a bit different and would create variety. The 81 is too similar to an 85.

No the Triang and Trix toolings are different.

 

The Trix / Liliput /Dapol moulding is much finer quality, especially on the front end and roof detail, the bogies, motor and pantograph are also much better

 

The chassis of the Hornby Dublo one is not like a class 81 at all (several say it was a class 82 chassis, but its a dinosaur). The Trix bogies are very finely detailed too, indeed even the wheel centres were detailed.

 

 

this is my left over Trix motor bogie, the wheel details,dimensions are spot on identical to Bachmann’s class 85

 

 

and the Triang one.

 

I have both with me, indeed I have a detailed out a Triang one, as the Trix one was hard to source, now Ive sourced one and fitted the Bachmann chassis.

This is my Triang one, obviously it’s moved on a long way from its original BR blue, but you get the idea..

 

and the Trix one..

 

bach to the Triang one..

 

 

 

Fitting a Bachmann class 85 chassis is an easier proposition On the Triang model, than the Trix 81 however, no need to grind out the part between the bogies, on the Triang one, I can just lop them and the buffers off, though the Trix lifting lugs are moulded to the body (like Bachmann), on Triang they are moulded into the bogie, so I’d need to make replacements. This models been a long term labour of love, but there’s no getting away from the fact the Trix/Liliput 81 sits nicer along side the 85/86/87 models. I’m in two minds to keep it & finish it, or give it up, (when I started this the Bachmann 85 didn’t exist).

 

One nice aspect of putting the Bachmann chassis under the Trix one, is the lights work exactly as they did on the Liliput one originally, no mods needed at all (unless you want to change it).

Edited April 5, 2020 by adb968008

[wombatofludham]

4 hours ago, drgj said:

The Tri-ang Hornby model was a class 81 and may be the same moulding as the Trix.

 

 

If anyone makes another electric it should be an 83 or 84 as they look a bit different and would create variety. The 81 is too similar to an 85.

The Trix moulding is a different model to the Triang.

The 81 would be a good choice in that they were the next most numerous class and lasted a long time.  However, an 83 might be a good choice as at least there are five livery options to go for - electric blue, no yellow bib, electric blue with yellow bib, BR blue with E numbers, BR blue with TOPS numbers, and 83012, the Euston Carriage pilot which was turned out in Executive livery.

[andyman7]

5 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I read ages ago that the Hornby Class 81 is a bit of a hybrid between a 81 and 82 and was easier to make a passable Class 82 than correct the errors for a Class 81.

 

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

No the Triang and Trix toolings are different.

 

The Trix / Liliput /Dapol moulding is much finer quality, especially on the front end and roof detail, the bogies, motor and pantograph are also much better

 

The chassis of the Hornby Dublo one is not like a class 81 at all (several say it was a class 82 chassis, but its a dinosaur). The Trix bogies are very finely detailed too, indeed even the wheel centres were detailed.

 

The Trix/Liliput E3001 history is bound up with that of Ernest Rosza who pretty much single handedly kept Trix going after its disposal by the Courtaulds group. In fact the model did not start out as a Trix model but was tooled up by Mr Rosza's firm Miniature Construction Ltd who issued the very first version. When Mr Rosza took on British Trix it was incorporated into the Trix range - this was when Trix were still making models to 3.8mm scale but because the E3001 had originated elsewhere it was true 4mm scale, albeit with a slightly overlength bogie wheelbase. The British operation worked at arm's length from the German company and it was when the latter stopped being able to supply motors and mechanical parts that an alternative supply was sourced from Liliput, hence the change in name for the British range. When Ernest finally retired and wound up the British range, Dapol acquired parts and tooling but never produced the E3001. They sold of lots of spare bodies though. The only former Trix model Dapol ever made was the Transpennine Class 124 model available for a very short time.

 

The Triang model was derived from the body of the Hornby Dublo E3002 (2245), the very last loco produced at Binns Road and in fact only made after Triang had bought Meccano Ltd, but before the May 1965 announcement of the amalgamation of the Hornby Dublo and Triang ranges that in reality meant the end of pretty much all Hornby Dublo production (and eventual acquisition most of the Dublo tooling by G & R Wrenn). However, Triang had previously announced their own overhead AC electric loco - in the 1964 catalogue as R753, a model of E3046, a class AL2/82. What they actually did was to mate the Hornby Dublo body to the chassis for the E3046 model, which is why the Triang E3001 has Class 82 pattern bogies. The original Hornby-Dublo E3002 has correct pattern bogies although the overall model is cosmetically crude in comparison to the Trix/Miniature Construction model.

 

As note above, the Triang version can be used to make a class 82, there is one in my projects box at the moment. For a class 81, I would concur that the Trix version is the model to look out for.

Edited April 5, 2020 by andyman7

[Opelsi]

Some very interesting postings above.

I do hope that we will see releases of RTR Classes 81-84.

I think it is correct that the most likely would be Class 81 though do agree with the livery comments for the Class 83 and there are also similar points (on livery options) which could be made for Class 82 + Class 84.

I would always be wanting BR Blue TOPS versions myself with Domino Headcode or at least blinds which I could change to domino, though appreciate we all have our favourite guises.

Not previously considered [31-676a] though having recently seen early blue (NYP) on YouTube (by AC Loco Fan) I would love to acquire one of these and will in all probability pre-order. They look great on a rake of Maroon MkI's, though also wonder if I could legitimately run at the head of my Maroon Portholes or even other liveried MkI's such as Green/Chocolate & Cream on inter-regionals, or even Blood & Custards?

Anyway, put me down for at least one of each if anything in the Class81-Class84 spread does emerge.

I would not be surprised given all diesel class have now been done with only a handful of shunter left to go at - fingers crossed!

 

Stay safe everyone!

Edited April 6, 2020 by Opelsi
Typo + Omission

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, Opelsi said:

Some very interesting postings above.

I do hope that we will see releases of RTR Classes 81-84.

I think it is correct that the most likely would be Class 81 though do agree with the livery comments for the Class 83 and there are also similar points (on livery options) which could be made for Class 82 + Class 84.

I would always be wanting BR Blue TOPS versions myself with Domino Headcode or at least blinds which I could change to domino, though appreciate we all have our favourite guises.

Not previously considered [31-676a] though having recently seen early blue (NYP) on YouTube (by AC Loco Fan) I would love to acquire one of these and will in all probability pre-order. They look great on a rake of Maroon MkI's, though also wonder if I could legitimately run at the head of my Maroon Portholes or even other liveried MkI's such as Green/Chocolate & Cream on inter-regionals, or even Blood & Custards?

Anyway, put me down for at least one of each if anything in the Class81-Class84 spread does emerge.

I would not be surprised given all diesel class have now been done with only a handful of shunter left to go at - fingers crossed!

 

Stay safe everyone!

Think you'd probably get away with blood & custards, just. choc & cream, and green, probably, there's always rule 1. I would like to run an AC electric in BR blue, with a rake of b&g mk1's with a b&g Gresley/Thompson buffet in. I know they reached Man Picc in the 70's while in b&g, so not impossible.

[John Tomlinson]

Huge thanks to all of you for the answers to my original question. Fascinating history of the development of these models as well.

 

John.