DMU's & EMU's in Blue SYP

[robertcwp]

501 at Euston: 

501_Euston_bsyp by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[robertcwp]

Two AC EMUs with wrap-round yellow:

 

AM7_131_AM5_425_Broxbourne_late-1960s by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Halvarras]

On 20/05/2019 at 17:31, stovepipe said:

Wonderful transition era view of Laira with 120, 121 and 116(?) in BSYP in view.

Plymouth Laira depot sometime in the late 1960's by Fred Castor, on Flickr

 

Wonderful view indeed! And having visited Laira on 11/9/68 I reckon I can identify some of the vehicles and have a guess at the rest. The Class 121 must be W55034, there that day and AFAIK the only Class 121 DMBS in Bsy livery. The three green centre trailers will be withdrawn Class 120 W59579/84/85 - no idea why these were removed from headcode-panel-fitted Class 120 sets so early but thanks to seeing these three that day I completed that sub-set. 

The Bsy headcode-fitted Class 120 far left could be either W51575/59581/51584, W51578/59580/51587 or W51580/59586/51589 (the latter was very common on the Truro - Falmouth branch, I was sick of the sight of the thing!) The power cars of W51573/59296/51582 were also Bsy but the centre car was green - bizarrely it had replaced one of these withdrawn ones! The Class 116 is much trickier but W50848/59356/50901 was in Bsy that June.....

As for all those locos visible on the Dump - on the date of my visit this contained D6300/2/3/4/5/11/13/17/49 & D801, at that time the first D8xx Warship to be laid up. D800/2 were in their last few weeks' service and that afternoon D802 passed by piloting D1007 on an up milk (3A64).

By that date the last DMUs still working in green livery in the vicinity were Class 120 W51576/59582/51590, which I seemed to record every time I went anywhere near a railway line, and Class 121 W55029. I'm not aware of any WR DMUs in Gfy livery.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Neil Phillips
Changed reference to '4th' green trailer W59296 - it's not here!

[leopardml2341]

1 hour ago, Neil Phillips said:

I'm not aware of any WR DMUs in Gfy livery.

I don't think there was a high proportion on other regions either.

[Halvarras]

True, on the face of it this may seem strange when there were so many green locomotives wearing full yellow ends (again though, not from Swindon which only turned out D808/10, D6312/31 like this - but it had a really big liking for Bsy!!) However DMUs tended to be repainted from early on and often, and green units were all but extinct by 1971 when Crewe was still releasing overhauled locos in touched-up Gfy livery (it stopped this practice and went blue for all repaints later that year - I recall seeing 1842 that Autumn and thinking 'wow look at that, a 18xx in blue - at last!!')

[Halvarras]

Dear All, as a general comment across all topics I feel I should apologise for mounting what appears to be a Transition Diesel Liveries take-over bid lately! I only joined RMweb about six months ago, moved house in the meantime and I'm still catching up on older stuff (but not TOO old) wherever I think I may have something of interest to contribute. You can judge! 

I became interested in railways in 1966 while living in Cornwall (just moved back there on retirement) just as Swindon was painting D1030 blue. So I was seeing locos in green, maroon and blue with yellow panels and full yellow ends - and as an established Airfix kit builder and painter by then thanks to early encouragement by an aeromodelling uncle perhaps it was no surprise that liveries became a particular interest which has endured. Well, up until an issue of Rail appeared in mid-1986 with 50017/23 on the front cover painted in NSE toothpaste livery, at which point I thought the plot had been lost (this is my personal opinion, other opinions are available!)

I'll try to reel it in a bit, but RMweb is just so interesting......!

Regards, Neil

 

[keefer]

found an old ITV Schools programme 'Stop Look Listen' from 1976:

 

it was made by ATV, which everyone knows was located in Birmingham, B1 2JP !

I'm sure more learned members can identify the locations etc. but I managed to notice something interesting in passing:

 

The programme was from 1976 - so are these long-lived all-over yellow cabs? (or was earlier footage re-used?) 

[MidlandRed]

14 hours ago, keefer said:

found an old ITV Schools programme 'Stop Look Listen' from 1976:

 

it was made by ATV, which everyone knows was located in Birmingham, B1 2JP !

I'm sure more learned members can identify the locations etc. but I managed to notice something interesting in passing:

 

The programme was from 1976 - so are these long-lived all-over yellow cabs? (or was earlier footage re-used?) 

 

An interesting find - the narrator, Chris Tarrant being notorious for reading ATVs postcode out as 2JPeeeeee!

The depot is Soho - and it's a class 304, with 310 behind, with a Metro Cammell (101) in the background, probably of the 50304 - 50320 batch. The train being travelled on is a first batch class 116 (interesting to see the original upholstery) - but the sequence is out of order as the first shot is entering Bham New St from the north and they board the train at a suburban station - the tunnel they emerge from is northbound towards Wolverhampton from Bham New Street with the site of Monument Lane shed on the left as they emerge. The station seen through the front as they depart is not Birmingham New Street and has overlapping platforms with an overbridge (Kidderminster) - the train is travelling both towards Stourbridge and Kidderminster and from that direction. I would not have thought the footage is more than a year or two older - the class 304 would most likely have been repainted early 1967 - there were a number of DMUs and EMUs in that livery operating in the Birmingham area, but the full electrified train service didn't start until around April 1967. I recall GRCW (503xx) and Park Royal DMUs operating in the livery, which must have been late 1966/early 1967 as they were all moved to Chester/Longsight and replaced by class 304 and 310 on local services. 

The second tunnel looks like Blackheath. The junction they approach before the second tunnel looks like a northbound one (Stourbridge Junction) whereas the train journey is both southbound and northbound. The flats look like Blackheath and the level crossing Langley Green? I'm sure others will be along who recognise more of the locations - especially the boarding and alighting stations which both look like they're on the ex WR Smethwick West to Kidderminster portion of the route. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by MidlandRed

[MidlandRed]

On 27 April 2020 at 20:28, Neil Phillips said:

 

Wonderful view indeed! And having visited Laira on 11/9/68 I reckon I can identify some of the vehicles and have a guess at the rest. The Class 121 must be W55034, there that day and AFAIK the only Class 121 DMBS in Bsy livery. The three green centre trailers will be withdrawn Class 120 W59579/84/85 - no idea why these were removed from headcode-panel-fitted Class 120 sets so early but thanks to seeing these three that day I completed that sub-set. 

The Bsy headcode-fitted Class 120 far left could be either W51575/59581/51584, W51578/59580/51587 or W51580/59586/51589 (the latter was very common on the Truro - Falmouth branch, I was sick of the sight of the thing!) The power cars of W51573/59296/51582 were also Bsy but the centre car was green - bizarrely it had replaced one of these withdrawn ones! The Class 116 is much trickier but W50848/59356/50901 was in Bsy that June.....

As for all those locos visible on the Dump - on the date of my visit this contained D6300/2/3/4/5/11/13/17/49 & D801, at that time the first D8xx Warship to be laid up. D800/2 were in their last few weeks' service and that afternoon D802 passed by piloting D1007 on an up milk (3A64).

By that date the last DMUs still working in green livery in the vicinity were Class 120 W51576/59582/51590, which I seemed to record every time I went anywhere near a railway line, and Class 121 W55029. I'm not aware of any WR DMUs in Gfy livery.

 

Fabulous photo indeed.

 

I had W51573, 51582 recorded running with W56298 (DTC) all in blue syp at Teignmouth on 7/7/67 - that said I saw 56298 working with two other pairs of power cars, one of which was with class 116, the other a different headcode fitted class 120, over a two week period that July! 

The class 116 is definitely a batch 2 or 3 unit (two character headcode). W50088/ 59362/50130 was also a regular set through the Newton Abbott - Exeter area in blue syp during that period (class 116 batch 1 - no headcode)

[keefer]

That's great info about the film, thanks for that.

Re: the yellow cabs - I knew they were a late '60s transition thing, I was just surprised to see them lasting into the mid-'70s.

I'd always assumed they became standard BFYE well before then.

Great stuff!

[Enterprisingwestern]

19 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

Dear All, as a general comment across all topics I feel I should apologise for mounting what appears to be a Transition Diesel Liveries take-over bid lately! I only joined RMweb about six months ago, moved house in the meantime and I'm still catching up on older stuff (but not TOO old) wherever I think I may have something of interest to contribute. You can judge! 

I became interested in railways in 1966 while living in Cornwall (just moved back there on retirement) just as Swindon was painting D1030 blue. So I was seeing locos in green, maroon and blue with yellow panels and full yellow ends - and as an established Airfix kit builder and painter by then thanks to early encouragement by an aeromodelling uncle perhaps it was no surprise that liveries became a particular interest which has endured. Well, up until an issue of Rail appeared in mid-1986 with 50017/23 on the front cover painted in NSE toothpaste livery, at which point I thought the plot had been lost (this is my personal opinion, other opinions are available!)

I'll try to reel it in a bit, but RMweb is just so interesting......!

Regards, Neil

 

 

 

Take over all you like Neil, I know Mr Bullock and myself ,at least, have a fatal fascination for the steam/telephone number changeover period, both for locomotives and all other rolling stock, so carry on, you can't put down in print enough information.

 

Mike.

[Swindon 123]

15 hours ago, keefer said:

found an old ITV Schools programme 'Stop Look Listen' from 1976:

 

it was made by ATV, which everyone knows was located in Birmingham, B1 2JP !

I'm sure more learned members can identify the locations etc. but I managed to notice something interesting in passing:

 

The programme was from 1976 - so are these long-lived all-over yellow cabs? (or was earlier footage re-used?) 

Fascinating video. My old stamping ground, although by the time I was driving trains over the route they were getting ready to implement colour lights, and a few of the boxes had disappeared, but some remained. Below is a list of scenes in the film in order of viewing.

 

1. Running into Birmingham New St. Most people would have spotted that.

2. Buying tickets at Kidderminster where they boarded the train, departing for New St.

3. Leaving New St, passing Monument Lane shed site, and then Soho Depot.

4. Passing over Cradley Heath Level Crossing.

5. Arriving at Old Hill station in the New St direction.

6. Arriving at Smethwick West station and departing for New St.

7. Signal box shots I'm not 100% sure off, but may be Rowley Regis.

8. Shortly after departing Cradley Heath station, heading for New St. The flats are as approaching Old Hill station.

9. Stourbridge Junction, the line straight ahead goes to Dudley.

10. Old Hill tunnel approaching from the Rowley Regis end ie. from New St direction.

11. Approaching Kidderminster from New St direction.

12. Heading towards Kidderminster between Hagley and Blakedown & Churchill stations.

13. The Kidderminster side of Blakedown viaduct. The 47 is heading towards Stourbridge Junction, and probably onto Bescot via Dudley..

14. Managed to identify this as just after leaving Hagley, heading towards Blakedown & Churchill.

15. The glasshouse are between Kidderminster and Blakedown & Churchill. On google maps it is now Hodgehill Garden Centre.

16. Arriving back at Kidderminster and finish.

 

Hope this helps in following the video a little better. I certainly enjoyed reliving old memories.

 

Paul J.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Swindon 123
Add additional information.

[MidlandRed]

1 hour ago, Swindon 123 said:

Fascinating video. My old stamping ground, although by the time I was driving trains over the route they were getting ready to implement colour lights, and a few of the boxes had disappeared, but some remained. Below is a list of scenes in the film in order of viewing.

 

1. Running into Birmingham New St. Most people would have spotted that.

2. Buying tickets at Kidderminster where they boarded the train, departing for New St.

3. Leaving New St, passing Monument Lane shed site, and then Soho Depot.

4. Passing over Cradley Heath Level Crossing.

5. Arriving at Old Hill station in the New St direction.

6. Arriving at Smethwick West station and departing for New St.

7. Signal box shots I'm not 100% sure off, but may be Rowley Regis.

8. Shortly after departing Cradley Heath station, heading for New St. The flats are as approaching Old Hill station.

9. Stourbridge Junction, the line straight ahead goes to Dudley.

10. Old Hill tunnel approaching from the Rowley Regis end ie. from New St direction.

11. Approaching Kidderminster from New St direction.

12. Heading towards Kidderminster between Hagley and Blakedown & Churchill stations.

13. The Kidderminster side of Blakedown viaduct. The 47 is heading towards New St.

14. Managed to identify this as just after leaving Hagley, heading towards Blakedown & Churchill.

15. The glasshouse are between Kidderminster and Blakedown & Churchill. On google maps it is now Hodgehill Garden Centre.

16. Arriving back at Kidderminster and finish.

 

Hope this helps in following the video a little better. I certainly enjoyed reliving old memories.

 

Paul J.

 

 

 

 

Excellent and thanks for clarifying - it was a toss up for me between Langley Green and Cradley Heath level crossing - I picked Langley Green southbound as the station is right next to the crossing at Cradley Heath. 

 

The only thing I'd add is the junction where they 'turn right' is definitely Stourbridge Junction northbound as you've said, with the northern end of the loco/unit sidings on the left - the line straight ahead being the then freight line via Dudley and Wednesbury - and quite intensively used for freight to Bescot - that class 47 and LM bound inter-regional train may have been heading that way. 

 

The earlier junction seems to be the New St/ Hawthorns bound approach to Smethwick West (Smethwich Galton Bridge)? (You've covered this in 6) but I was confused by the upper quadrant signal shown. 

 

In terms of timing of the filming, the vehicles shown in the roads passed would suggest around 1970/1 as there are no Avenger/ Marina/ Allegro / Escort even Mk 2 or 3 Cortinas visible and the lorries look very 60s - unless the residents of Warley/ Sandwell/ Dudley didn't have particularly up to date vehicles at the time. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by MidlandRed

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Should be easy to identify the year, when was there a Kidderminster to Kidderminster circular service?!!

 

Mike.

[Swindon 123]

4 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

 

Excellent and thanks for clarifying - it was a toss up for me between Langley Green and Cradley Heath level crossing - I picked Langley Green southbound as the station is right next to the crossing at Cradley Heath. 

 

The only thing I'd add is the junction where they 'turn right' is definitely Stourbridge Junction northbound as you've said, with the northern end of the loco/unit sidings on the left - the line straight ahead being the then freight line via Dudley and Wednesbury - and quite intensively used for freight to Bescot - that class 47 and LM bound inter-regional train may have been heading that way. 

 

The earlier junction seems to be the New St/ Hawthorns bound approach to Smethwick West (Smethwich Galton Bridge)? (You've covered this in 6) but I was confused by the upper quadrant signal shown. 

 

In terms of timing of the filming, the vehicles shown in the roads passed would suggest around 1970/1 as there are no Avenger/ Marina/ Allegro / Escort even Mk 2 or 3 Cortinas visible and the lorries look very 60s - unless the residents of Warley/ Sandwell/ Dudley didn't have particularly up to date vehicles at the time. 

As you quite rightly say MidlandRed, the 47 in photo 13 is most probably heading for Bescot via the OW&W and Dudley. I shall amend my post to reflect this. by the time i was working over the line, the station at Cradley Heath had been altered from staggered platforms to both platforms being on the Stourbridge side of the level crossing. The climb out of Cradley Heath up to Rowley Regis was always a bit of a pull. I always remember shortly after leaving Cradley Heath and climbing the bank, you used to go around a left hand curve and past a metal works that always seemed to have a large hammer banging away. Happy memories.

 

Paul J.

[keefer]

Thank you all for the information guys.

Just the result of a YouTube search for a little schools programme I saw over 40 yrs ago!

[stovepipe]

18 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

 

In terms of timing of the filming, the vehicles shown in the roads passed would suggest around 1970/1 as there are no Avenger/ Marina/ Allegro / Escort even Mk 2 or 3 Cortinas visible and the lorries look very 60s - unless the residents of Warley/ Sandwell/ Dudley didn't have particularly up to date vehicles at the time. 

 

It looks to me like the 47 still has two bodyside numbers, so we're before TOPS renumbering, which started from Autumn 1973.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by stovepipe

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, stovepipe said:

 

It looks to me like the 47 still has two bodyside numbers, so we're before TOPS renumbering, which started from Autumn 1973.

 

 

 

Although irrelevant to the film, TOPS renumbering started in 1971.

 

Mike.

[jonny777]

Not on 47s it didn't.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

No-one specifically mentioned Brush 4 numbering!

 

Mike.

[stovepipe]

47 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

No-one specifically mentioned Brush 4 numbering!

 

Mike.

 

Erm, except class 47* is mentioned in the same actual sentence.

 

*as the class were known since before TOPS renumbering,

 

BTW, is it pedantry Sunday?

 

Hope so, I missed it last year.

 

 

[MidlandRed]

A bit more pedantry then - my dating of the film came from tge fact that the latest visible cars I could see were two quite smart white Austin or Morris mk2s. A pity there are no buses seen as on 1/12/73 the Bham/Black Country operations of Midland Red were taken over (bought from NBC) by WMPTE - after that date their vehicles in the area quite quickly appeared in WMPTE livery, and in 1975/76 over 100 new Fleetine/Ailsa/ Leyland National vehicles were provided to Black Country ex MR garages. Hoorah for Barbara Castle, the PTE principle and the bus grant (some say!!!)

Edited May 3, 2020 by MidlandRed

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I'm part way through building the DC Kits Derby Lightweight pictured below and I would like to know if anyone has any numbers of units that carried this livery. I'm not overly bothered that any particular numbers actually ran as a pair more that any number did carry the small warning panel livery. So far the only definite number I have is for DMBS M79467 which is on page 3 of this thread, unfortunately all of the DTCL's in this livery are unidentified and that is after having a good look through the photographs on RAILCAR.co.uk

 

Derby Lightweight DTCL and DMBS.

 

Gibbo.

[Swindon 123]

4 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

I'm part way through building the DC Kits Derby Lightweight pictured below and I would like to know if anyone has any numbers of units that carried this livery. I'm not overly bothered that any particular numbers actually ran as a pair more that any number did carry the small warning panel livery. So far the only definite number I have is for DMBS M79467 which is on page 3 of this thread, unfortunately all of the DTCL's in this livery are unidentified and that is after having a good look through the photographs on RAILCAR.co.uk

 

Derby Lightweight DTCL and DMBS.

 

Gibbo.

Gibbo 75 I'm afraid the way the caption is on the photo has mislead you. The number of the Blue with SYP DMBS is M79177. The number M79467 is for the green DTC. The number is wrong anyhow, as there wasn't such a vehicle. I think it should be M79647, which would make more sense. I can offer you another couple of DMBS numbers. M79124 and M79144.

 

Blue with SYP DTCL numbers are a lot harder to find though. I have photos of them, but unidentified. I do have two possible candidates, E79255 and M79646. In the photos they a blue with full yellow ends, but they both carry the double arrow logo on the cab doors, a position usually only found on units that had carried Blue with small yellow panels at some time in their life. M79646 also had a yellow stripe over 1st Class. Not conclusive proof, but the best I could find at the moment.

 

Paul J.

 

Paul J.

[Gibbo675]

5 hours ago, Swindon 123 said:

Gibbo 75 I'm afraid the way the caption is on the photo has mislead you. The number of the Blue with SYP DMBS is M79177. The number M79467 is for the green DTC. The number is wrong anyhow, as there wasn't such a vehicle. I think it should be M79647, which would make more sense. I can offer you another couple of DMBS numbers. M79124 and M79144.

 

Blue with SYP DTCL numbers are a lot harder to find though. I have photos of them, but unidentified. I do have two possible candidates, E79255 and M79646. In the photos they a blue with full yellow ends, but they both carry the double arrow logo on the cab doors, a position usually only found on units that had carried Blue with small yellow panels at some time in their life. M79646 also had a yellow stripe over 1st Class. Not conclusive proof, but the best I could find at the moment.

 

Paul J.

 

Paul J.

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for the information, as you mention there are plenty of photographs but mostly unidentified and yet most of the photographs of green or later style blue ones seem to have had there numbers recorded.

 

I have looked on RAILCAR.co.uk and found that 79646 was paired with 79125 and also that 79255 and 79039 ran together but no photographs of the other half. If nothing conclusive turns up then there is always rule one.

 

Gibbo.