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charliepetty

Realtrack Models looking for suggestions!

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Firstly, I would love to see a Plasser & Theurer Tamping Machine. Though there are many different models/types, a quick review through Google shows there are modern units of the same model/type, with different operators. Livery options on a correctly selected model could include Colas Rail, Amey, Baffour Beatty, Volker Rail and Network Rail. A Plasser & Theurer Tamping Machine would be a great addition to "trackside" equipment and models, something i feel is going to be the new market for modelling manafacturers, especially if Bachmann's MPV sells well. I did half expect Bachmann to annonce one for there 2011 range, they didnt, but i would not be surprised if they dont within the next 5 years. But as in the opening of this suggestion, I highlighted there are many types/models made by Plasser & Theurer. Thus i would imagine most modellers could own a RealTrack Models and a Bachmanns!

 

 

I have done a little bit of googling as mentioned in my main post. Rather interesting really. I thought i would present my finding :)

 

For a Plasser & Theurer Tamping Machine could include Colas Rail, Amey, Baffour Beatty, Babcock and Network Rail. Sadly for Volker Rail and Grant Rail..a Matisa Tamping machine would be required, see photo link:

http://rail-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Volker_Rail-News.com-Picture.jpg

 

It is interesting that a Plasser & Theurer 5000 RT was mentioned. As these perfectly match combinations with the Plasser & Theurer 09-3X Series, in which I have found that a company called Kibri do these in HO scale:

 

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/article_data/images/43/85380_c.jpg

 

The 5000 RT and 09-3X Series seem to only be used by Amey and Network Rail:

 

 

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/NewSite%20POD%202010/POD15-04-10.jpg

 

Thus my finding for the perfect model for Charlie and Arran to consider going for from the Plasser & Theurer is the 08-16 C100 Universal Tamping machine, see Plasser & Theurer link for added factual information, including this diagram: http://www.plasser.c...164x4c100rt.htm

 

 

http://www.plasser.co.uk/images/08164x4c100rt.gif

 

The Plasser & Theurer is the 08-16 C100 Universal certainly lives up to its name. It comes in no less than 3 Colas Rail liveries, Amey, Baffour Beatty, Babcock and Network Rail...Ideal i think for Realtrack Models to truly get value from the tooling...I would also say, it has to be the most "simple" to model, compared to the more complex 09-3X and 5000 RT...I think the HO Kibri model highlights how toy lick Tamping machines can look due to there complexity. (Something i believe Bachmann found when developing the MPV, hence why it has taken may years to design and produce)

 

I have found these following images, showing the livery variation. I do feel this is the most realistic chance of a Tamping machine we have?

 

Colas:

 

 

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/gj110507-73919-welshpool.jpg

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2103/2462368859_20c95d12b2.jpg

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/4179074541_5bda4f6591.jpg

 

Amey:

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/images/photos/750/750169250.jpg

 

Babcock:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2300/5699305396_046791d32b.jpg

 

 

Balfour Beatty:

http://www.hentis-rail.co.uk/Images/July-Dec05/DR73928Poole191205e.JPG

 

Just to add, look how complex the 5000 RT is to model! Further supporting a case for a 08-16 :)

http://train-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/5211.jpg

Edited by Andy Y
Hotlinked images changed to links - copyright!!!

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Looking through the pics you've linked there are quite a range of different configurations there, some with trailers, some without, I would have thought that keeping it to one type would be useful.

 

So...

 

Looking through my FMi wagon recognition, there seem to be two Plasser tampers types that are not uncommon:

 

The first is the 08-4x4/C100RT with 12 machines:

DR73924-8, 73931, 73937-9, 73943-5

They seem to be 'single unit' machines.

Operators are listed as Balfour Beatty and Colas - this is Balfour Beatty's DR73938:

ZWA73938DRBasingstoke220510-3-L.jpg

 

The other 'common-ish' type looks to be the 08-4x4/4S-RT with 19 machines:

DR73904-10, 14, 17, 18, 23, 29, 30, 32, 35, 36, 40-42

These are articulated on 3 bogies

Operators are listed as Amey, Babcock Rail, Balfour Beatty, Colas and Fastline

This is DR73910

ZWA73910DRBirminghamNewSt01010-L.jpg

 

 

Notes: I'm far from being an OTP expert - but there are other machines which are 'similar' to my eye to both those types but which have different model designations in the FMi book which might also be do-able if the differences are internal...

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I have done a little bit of googling as mentioned in my main post. Rather interesting really. I thought i would present my finding :)

 

For a Plasser & Theurer Tamping Machine could include Colas Rail, Amey, Baffour Beatty, Babcock and Network Rail. Sadly for Volker Rail and Grant Rail..a Matisa Tamping machine would be required, see photo link:

Volker_Rail-News.com-Picture.jpg

 

Balfour Beatty:

DR73928Poole191205e.JPG

 

Just to add, look how complex the 5000 RT is to model! Further supporting a case for a 08-16 :)

 

 

Whilst were on the subject of on track plant, how about a Kirow Crane? In use with Balfours, Volker and a few others i think...

 

As for Tampers, Balfour Beatty are just about to take delivery of several shiny new Matisa Tampers ( Can't remember which ones at the moment though, as it was only briefly mentioned during my apprenticeship interview last Friday)

 

 

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id love to see Realtrack or one of the other manufacturers like Dapol have a go at the 02. I think the DJH kit is a showing its age a bit now.

 

D2860bankfield1961.jpg

D2850 Bankfield goods, Liverpool dock road 1961.

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I *think* the Coradia/Adelante would share many components - from a (purely cursory) look the 175 and 180 appear to share centre cars and what in model terms would be the rolling platform/mech, with just a different driving car body.

 

 

Wouldnt it be great if it was just the case of bolting on the correct nose cone, here is the only spare Class 180 cone...

791px-Spare_BR_Class_180_Cab.JPG

 

When studying the Class 175/180. It really does to my eye, esp when seeing nose cones at Old Oak Common like above, the two Coradia classes are the same bodies with different faces. Really would love a few Class 180 models!

 

The first is the 08-4x4/C100RT with 12 machines:

DR73924-8, 73931, 73937-9, 73943-5

 

The other 'common-ish' type looks to be the 08-4x4/4S-RT with 19 machines:

DR73904-10, 14, 17, 18, 23, 29, 30, 32, 35, 36, 40-42

 

 

The 08-4x4/4S RT totally excaped me! I was so focused on trying to find the 09-3X in anything but Network Rail i forgot to research the 08-4x4/4S RT, what to be honest, you see just as often as the 08-16 100. Many liveries out there, over different times. Was stuck, i mean delayed, outside Bristol Temple Meads a few weeks ago, along side a 08-4x4/4S RT, an outstanding piece of machineary. Would love a tamper model, just a shame the two current models on the market (Bachmanns Plasser 07/xx and Kibra 09-3X) are either crude or epically expensive! Whatever our findings mean to a tamper model in the future, we certainly have shown there is so much oppurtunity to model many different types. I think if i had £100,000 to develop a new model. Two Tampers would be my first model to produce. I better get playing the lottery again!

 

Out of interest and addressed to Charlie and Arran. Have these 8 pages of this thread helped you two out? Have similar models been suggest on here to what your thoughts already hold? Is there anything we can say to twist your arms into making them?

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My votes are for:

 

Industrial steam and diesel locos

 

60s/70s era Freightliners

 

Class 74

 

Bulleid EPB/SUB EMUs

 

 

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Diesel:-

Class 05 would be a good choice. Very distinctive looking, and I don't see any of the big boys jumping on this to readily.

 

I wouldnt be too sure about that; the 05 was mentioned in the Bachmann/ModelRail interview a few years back, and I'd think would be a fairly easy adaptation onto the new 03 chassis.

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I wouldnt be too sure about that; the 05 was mentioned in the Bachmann/ModelRail interview a few years back, and I'd think would be a fairly easy adaptation onto the new 03 chassis.

Appologies, I didn't know that. In a way its a good thing because an 05 is a loco I'd very much like. Great fun to drive for real too!

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So many of these suggestions have an extreme amount of potential R&D to do, and some extremely complex shapes to get right, and are in some cases, two or three car units in various forms. All of this bumps the price up on what has to be a quality product which looks right, and runs extremely well.

 

The Model Rail Sentinel and the Kernow Beattie Well Tank has shown the way for a seriously impressive model that is also selling by the bucketload. Simple, attractive, and necessary for many modellers up and down the country.

 

Even if Realtrack don't go with my suggestion - the Gresley J50 Tank engine - there's no doubt in my mind that selecting a specific tank engine, of a large class, with a wide sphere of influence in this country, to be the next model, is an absolute no brainer. Particularly as the shapes in a steam locomotive are, dare I say, it, less complex than the Plasser Tamper machine illustrated above...!

 

Cheap R&D, smaller material costs and a comfortable niche should see a small steam engine (but equally, a small diesel locomotive such as the very good suggestion of the BR 02) be the top choice if you want guaranteed sales, and a product that will actually make it to market in a reasonable time.

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I'd really like an original green Transpennine - class 124 in new money.

 

Am I correct in saying that the old Trix model was more HO than OO?

 

Ian

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I'd really like an original green Transpennine - class 124 in new money.

 

Am I correct in saying that the old Trix model was more HO than OO?

 

Ian

 

You are correct.

 

It is however, possible to 00-ise them.....

 

post-6920-0-37529200-1311594082_thumb.jpg

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You are correct.

 

It is however, possible to 00-ise them.....

 

 

Nicely done but I guess it would be quite a job. I'm thinking more along the lines of the lovely Bachman Craven unit. Buy, pop in some P4 wheels, run, enjoy...

 

I suppose such a project would be more relevant to a large manufacturer like Bachman or Hornby and agree with earlier posts that for a small supplier something niche but attractive, like a small shunter would be more suitable. How about Linda from the Festiniog? A lovely memento of a trip on one of our most popular railways but basically a standard Hunslet product which could be seen on lots of Welsh slate mine railways.

 

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm117/Roger_Dimmick/NP1.jpg

 

Ian

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If I have read the thread right....

 

  • You don't want to do anything with only a couple of liveries
  • You don't want to do anything a big name might do.
  • You don't want to touch OHLE stock (and presumably not 3rd Rail either)

 

Is there anything you would make?

 

....So I ask, what about the 319/320-322 family that's still skirting the network today? Pleanty of livery oppertunities and area scope there. I also echo the comments for the Electrostar family....

 

....class 320/321/322 emu's - used over large area's of the country and in many liveries

mk2f (especially the buffet (rfb?))

 

In OO, Bratchell Models already do a fair representation of the Mk3 based units (317/2, 319,320,321,322,455) as a kit, although there are gaps and you do have to find your own motor.

 

They would be most welcome in N gauge though (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

 

If we are going to get the Electrostars, could you possibly put the often forgotten 357s in too. They have three liveries already and a franchise renewal coming up!

 

I personally think, if kept low key until quite late, that the air-con Mk2s (with the DBSO and maybe some of the barrier and test train vehicles that have been well used) would make a killing.

 

If there is to be something out of the ordinary (and I doubt you would do this) how about a class 151........

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If I have read the thread right....

 

  • You don't want to do anything with only a couple of liveries
  • You don't want to do anything a big name might do.
  • You don't want to touch OHLE stock (and presumably not 3rd Rail either)

 

Is there anything you would make?

 

 

If you were spending 100K then you might me carefull!

 

 

In OO, Bratchell Models already do a fair representation of the Mk3 based units (317/2, 319,320,321,322,455) as a kit, although there are gaps and you do have to find your own motor.

 

They would be most welcome in N gauge though (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

 

If we are going to get the Electrostars, could you possibly put the often forgotten 357s in too. They have three liveries already and a franchise renewal coming up!

 

I personally think, if kept low key until quite late, that the air-con Mk2s (with the DBSO and maybe some of the barrier and test train vehicles that have been well used) would make a killing.

 

If there is to be something out of the ordinary (and I doubt you would do this) how about a class 151........

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We are trying to get comments and suggestions, single liveries & units less that 10 years old is risky, but please keep suggesting as some of your comments are good, some silly and odd ones 'risky'!

 

Thanks. Charlie

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what would be the best period for business? what is most popular with the model railway buying public for the big and smaller manufacturers?

 

pre 1950s, 1950s-60s, 70s-80s. 90s-2000s?

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what would be the best period for business? what is most popular with the model railway buying public for the big and smaller manufacturers?

 

pre 1950s, 1950s-60s, 70s-80s. 90s-2000s?

 

Steam Era was always good but the 'Current Scene' seems to be rapidly catching up, look at the Hornby & Bachmanns products, not Heljan or Dapol '00' stuff, these are not'Lagge Quantity' sales items.

 

what would be the best period for business? what is most popular with the model railway buying public for the big and smaller manufacturers?

 

pre 1950s, 1950s-60s, 70s-80s. 90s-2000s?

 

Steam Era was always good but the 'Current Scene' seems to be rapidly catching up, look at the Hornby & Bachmanns products, not Heljan or Dapol '00' stuff, these are not 'Large Quantity' sales items.

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what would be the best period for business? what is most popular with the model railway buying public for the big and smaller manufacturers?

 

pre 1950s, 1950s-60s, 70s-80s. 90s-2000s?

 

Judging from the recent poll at MREMAG I'd say that it's roughly...

 

1. 1950s-60s

2. 1920s-40s

3. 1970s-80s

4. 1990-Current

 

Although it's only one internet poll so it won't be totally representative of all UK modellers and judging from the number of available models, the current scene seems to be more popular than the poll would suggest.

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The MREmag poll might be more representative of the folk that read MREmag, rather than the hobby at large... ;)

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Judging from the recent poll at MREMAG I'd say that it's roughly...

 

1. 1950s-60s

2. 1920s-40s

3. 1970s-80s

4. 1990-Current

No. 2 would surprise me - can't be the 'buying public' as there's very little for the early part of the era available RTR.

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The MREmag poll might be more representative of the folk that read MREmag, rather than the hobby at large... ;)

 

 

I'll second that! MREMag's idea of 'modern image' is something where the boiler is used for heating rather than traction...

 

Returning to the topic, I would like to throw in another vote for the already popular:

 

- Southern 'USA' 0-6-0 Tank (several livery variations, and several preserved)

- S160 'USA' 2-8-0 (note as above)

- Class 101, 155 or 156 DMUs (huge range of liveries, widespread geographically)

- Class 308 or 321 EMUs (both used in London and the North, many livery variants)

- BR Mark IIe or Mark IIf coaches (obvious reasons!)

- BR Mark I suburbans (unless you feel there's a risk that Bachmann might update their own)

- PFA wagons, plus British Gypsum containers which could also be used with a variety of existing container wagons

- Modern bogie timber wagons, as popularly photographed on the Chirk trains hauled by all manner of locos

 

 

I will also jot down some suggestions which most people will no doubt think are compeltely bonkers, but you asked what we wanted, so here goes!

 

- Lancashire & Yorkshire Class 25 'Ironclad' 0-6-0 goods engine (satisfies the current demand for 0-6-0 freight locos, one preserved on KWVR)

- Class 332 / 333 EMUs (suitable for GWML and West Yorks, attractive trains, various livery variants)

- Class 325 parcels EMU (this one might not be completely bonkers - suitable for both AC and DC electrified layouts remember)

- Class 141 DMU (three basic liveries, plus a couple more in preservation, 'distinctive' appearance)

- NG-G16 Beyer Garratt or Ffestiniog Railway 'Double Fairlie' (FR/WHR network is now longest heritage line, about time we had a range of 2' gauge models?)

- MFS ballast hoppers (as used in 'High Output Ballast Cleaner' train. Hauled in long rakes of identical wagons (unlike tampers which are all different), used nationwide, compatible with Freightliner/EWS/DBS/DRS)...photo below for those who don't know what these look like:

 

post-9324-0-56780900-1312306177_thumb.jpg

 

Cheers,

 

Will

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Judging from the recent poll at MREMAG I'd say that it's roughly...

 

1. 1950s-60s

2. 1920s-40s

3. 1970s-80s

4. 1990-Current

 

Although it's only one internet poll so it won't be totally representative of all UK modellers and judging from the number of available models, the current scene seems to be more popular than the poll would suggest.

 

The art to getting a good range of products is to experiment (if you can afford it) with various era's, Bachmann are very good at this, not the large volume quantities that Hornby shift out to retailers but a steady stream of assorted era models which shops tend to stock a few of each, thus a few of each X 1000 shops is a reasonable quantity. The current trend seems to be the current/modern era! Thus we have Class 70's, 66's, MPV's, Class 350 EMU's, Voyagers, Class 170's & Class 150's. All items based on a chassis currently available in other models, thus reducing production cost and design times.

 

Now Hornby tend to go for wide appeal big hitters like HST's, Javilin & Eurostar (2012 games!!!), Harry Potter, Thomas the Tank, Tornado, Mallard with some specialist stuff slipped in between, why Bachmann never did a HST is a mystery to me!

 

I admire Bachmann with their range where Hornby tend to be 100% commercial.

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