Occasional Canadian photos, mostly from Vancouver area

[pH]

11 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

 

The last thing you'd expect to find in BC Rail's North Vancouver yard! BR Pacer 142049 was sent to Western Canada at the time of Expo '86 and was actually used on a brief demonstration passenger service on the Southern Railway of British Columbia, the former British Columbia Electric, in the lower Fraser Valley. 6 June 1986.

Mike, the service was actually on the BC Hydro Railway in 1986. The BC Electric was renamed to that in 1961, and the line was sold by Hydro in 1989. The train crews were apparently very happy to get through the summer without a crossing ‘incident’. Road users were accustomed to slow, loud freights approaching crossings with plenty of warning - there were many crossings on the line without barriers or lights, just crossbucks. A small, quiet, fast unit was something else and unexpected. Plus they wouldn’t have fancied their chances in a collision with something like a loaded dump truck in a Pacer rather than one of their usual SD38s.

[dibber25]

Amazing to think that the Class 142 was sent in a genuine attempt to sell the British-built rail buses as replacements for the Budd RDCs on what was then the longest DMU run in the world, 456 miles from North Van to Prince George. I remember being told that the BC Rail folk didn't like the way the draughts whistled under those bi-fold doors! Here are two shots of mine - The Budd RDCs at the old Lillooet station waiting to return to North Van. The school train which brought native children from Seton Portage to Lillooet lays over in the yard awaiting the afternoon return south. The passenger car heated by a wood burning stove in winter (it was 95degF when I was there) was named Budd Wiser by the kids. A chop-nosed RS3 was the motive power. Joe McMillan's wonderful shot shows southbound train 14 picking up train orders at Pemberton. It has three 3,000hp MLWs on the front and three more as mid-train helpers. Finally (a BCR official shot) the recovery of M420 No. 808 from Seton Lake in 1981. Along with a six-axle unit, it had hit a rockslide and derailed into the lake. It was rebuilt and re-entered traffic by the year end but the larger unit was not so lucky. It was recovered eventually and cut up on site. (CJL)

[dibber25]

10 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Interesting that Cowichan appears to have acquired a couple of windows. Perhaps it's a replacement building?

Here's a glimpse inside. It seems that CPR built these wooden shelters out of the remnants of the original proper station buildings. There was a similar one at Shawinigan Lake when I first went there in the 1970s. However, Cowichan is just about the only one that didn't get replaced with one of VIA Rail's 'rustic bus shelters'. What is certain is that the present Cowichan has never actually seen a passenger train, as it was built/rebuilt/smartened up AFTER the service ended in 2011!

[Mike_Walker]

808 was actually an ALCo C425, one of 12 former Erie Lackawanna examples acquired by the BCR.

[dibber25]

The end of an era on CPR and the beginning of a new era on CN. The two VIA Rail Budd RDCs which had operated the E&N in recent years were wrapped to prevent vandalism in Nanaimo yard as they awaited eventual transfer to the mainland. And the Kinsol Trestle, the largest surviving wooden bridge in the Commonwealth under repair in 2011. I had first seen this magnificent structure in the early 1980s not long after the CN lines to Cowichan Bay and Victoria finally closed. It suffered dereliction, fire and water-bombing in the 20 years before its restoration as a footbridge/horse/cycle bridge, the last link in the Trans-Canada Trail. I like to think, hope, that I played a small part in the long campaign to save it from demolition. I wrote a piece for the Times-Colonist newspaper extolling its virtues and explaining why it was important. I still get a thrill every time I see it - 150ft high and 600yd long, it is truly awe-inspiring. An HO scale model of it forms the main feature of my layout. (CJL)

[dibber25]

12 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

808 was actually an ALCo C425, one of 12 former Erie Lackawanna examples acquired by the BCR.

I knew I'd get that wrong if I didn't look it up! I have a feeling it was renumbered, too, when it was rebuilt and that it probably still survives as weren't most of BC Rail's fleet sold off after the dodgy deal that saw BCR sold to CN? If you're into corporate and political shenanigans, that's a story to make your hair stand on end!! (CJL)

[pH]

1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

... the dodgy deal that saw BCR sold to CN? If you're into corporate and political shenanigans, that's a story to make your hair stand on end!! (CJL)

Indeed!!

[Mike_Walker]

12 hours ago, dibber25 said:

I knew I'd get that wrong if I didn't look it up! I have a feeling it was renumbered, too, when it was rebuilt and that it probably still survives as weren't most of BC Rail's fleet sold off after the dodgy deal that saw BCR sold to CN? If you're into corporate and political shenanigans, that's a story to make your hair stand on end!! (CJL)

Was indeed, renumbered 800 when returned to service (the group was originally 801-812) and I have it listed as cannibalised and remains sold for scrap in 7/94.

For the record, the M630 which was not recovered from Seton Lake was 711.

As for the destruction of BC Rail by CN - don't get me started! I still can't believe how all the investment made in the railway in its last decade or so, new stations, shops, etc., was swept away. In 1986 I was on the Cariboo Dayliner which was six cars in length south of Lillooet to handle the crowds. No doubt someone will write a book exposing all some day...

[dibber25]

3 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Was indeed, renumbered 800 when returned to service (the group was originally 801-812) and I have it listed as cannibalised and remains sold for scrap in 7/94.

For the record, the M630 which was not recovered from Seton Lake was 711.

As for the destruction of BC Rail by CN - don't get me started! I still can't believe how all the investment made in the railway in its last decade or so, new stations, shops, etc., was swept away. In 1986 I was on the Cariboo Dayliner which was six cars in length south of Lillooet to handle the crowds. No doubt someone will write a book exposing all some day...

All the classic corruptions - sellers acting for buyers, back-handers to support election funds etc. My goodness, it was all there. Never mind a book - it should be a film! It was such a fabulous railway with everything going for it and it would have been great to have continued opening up northern BC instead of turning Vancouver into a suburban sprawl and over-developing southern VI. I presume the new stations at Squamish and Lillooet got bulldozed? Quesnel preserved as a heritage building? Whistler used by the Rocky Mountaineer? The furthest north that I got was Lillooet. Rode in the cab with my two kids all the way back to North Van. I remarked to the engineer that the lead RDC seemed to have flats. He hadn't a clue what I was talking about. "Oh, you mean skidded wheels," he eventually responded. 

Here's Gary, the engineer on the VIA Budd car 6133 going up over the Malahat in 1981. This is the RDC now owned by Jason Shron of Rapido Trains. Gosh, that's nearly 40 years ago! And me trying to be 'arty' with reflections - same RDC same year. (CJL)

[dibber25]

4 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Was indeed, renumbered 800 when returned to service (the group was originally 801-812) and I have it listed as cannibalised and remains sold for scrap in 7/94.

For the record, the M630 which was not recovered from Seton Lake was 711.

As for the destruction of BC Rail by CN - don't get me started! I still can't believe how all the investment made in the railway in its last decade or so, new stations, shops, etc., was swept away. In 1986 I was on the Cariboo Dayliner which was six cars in length south of Lillooet to handle the crowds. No doubt someone will write a book exposing all some day...

I thought 711 was eventually recovered by members of the local indigenous band and dragged ashore. They offered it back to BC Rail but the railway didn't want it, so they dismantled it and sold the scrap. Pretty sure I saw a picture of the wreck and the guys posing with it. Yes, the Cariboo Dayliner was six cars when I travelled, too. Four went forward to Prince George. (CJL)

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by dibber25

[pH]

If you do a Google ‘images’ search for “BCR 711 seton” you will find quite a few pictures of 711 after recovery from the lake, and being taken away for scrap. There are supposed to be a couple of PGE steam locos in the lakes there, one in Seton Lake and one in Anderson Lake.

 

A bit OT, but I found this amusing:

 

https://www.steamlocomotive.com/lists/searchdb.php?country=CAN&state=BC

 

It’s a list of steam locomotives still existent in BC. A significant number have ‘status’ listed as ‘sunk’!

Edited September 7, 2020 by pH
Don’t rely on memory for details!

[Jim49]

Going back to my post on Saturday about the single CP goods van parked on the E&N line near Victoria West yard, here is another example we spotted last year. 

We had been down to the Roundhouse Museum in Yaletown and were wandering along Mainland Street when we came across this van sitting on a short length of track just east of Nelson St and next to a small park. When we saw it I wondered if it was a burger or coffee bar with the serving hatch on the pavement side but when I checked it was plain, just like the side shown. 

There was no signage  on any face of it, e.g. to advertise the Roundhouse Museum or other attraction, so please does anyone know what its purpose is? 

 

I apologise for the sight of that poor derelict creature hanging on the the end of the wagon but my wife caught me in an unguarded moment!

 

Jim

[PhilJ W]

Looks like a caboose without the lookout. Some sort of works car perhaps?

 

[Mike_Walker]

I managed to get to Prince George (Eventually) twice, in 1979 and 1986 both times arriving in PG aboard the Skeena, first from Jasper the second from Prince Rupert but that's another story. On the first occasion no one seemed to know where the BCR trains ran from or even if they existed. The VIA crew said from the same station in PG, other opinions varied from a few hundred yards apart to several miles. After a night in a hotel we got a taxi who's driver assured us he knew the secret and took us to an industrial estate on the south side of town. Just as we were thinking "this can't be right" we came across some tracks, freight cars and a somewhat dishevelled looking building, all shut up and nobody about - to be fair it was about 1/2 hour before the train was due to depart.  Eventually, just as we really starting to worry, RDCs BC31 and BC11 appeared. 

 

 

 

 Moving on seven years to May 1986 and what a difference - not just the weather! A brand new station, well signposted, had been built and the train was obviously attracting far more business requiring four Budds. Once again we had BC31 and BC11 but they were bracketed by BC30 and BC14. Note the high level platform but because of the wide gap to allow freight cars to pass bridging pieces had to be deployed. New replacement stations had been built at many locations, large and small, along the line and a real effort was being made to promote what had now become the Cariboo Dayliner with considerable success. As Chris says above, it was routine to add two more at Lillooet which provided a daily out and back service from North Vancouver, the PG service only running on alternate days in each direction.

BC11 and BC30 were both new to the BCR's predecessor the Pacific Great Eastern, BC14 came from SEPTA and was originally Reading 9155 whilst BC31 was originally Great Northern 2350 and was acquired from Amtrak in 1976 to replace the original BC31 which had been destroyed in 1973 when it hit a rockslide and caught fire.

 

 

It wasn't only the passenger service that saw investment. A well equipped diesel shop was opened at Prince George in 1985.

 

 

Sitting outside on 27 May 1986 we find 704, an MLW built C630M, the last of BCR's initial batch of these 3,000hp locomotives built in 1969. They were followed by 18 of the modified M630 design and, finally, eight M630W's with the wide nose 'Canadian' cab.

 

 

Later that day and at the other end of the shed we find 644, a MLW M420W along with sister 640 and 804, one of the ex-Erie Lackawanna ALCo C425s.

 

The BCR staff at all levels were incredibly friendly and helpful, allowing us to wander at will around the facility. At one point we "commandeered" 722 as a stage for a group photo which took some time to organise even if there was only four of us. We noticed some BCR staff looking on but they didn't stop us even though they did want the loco to put on a train! 

 

 

The furthest north I got on the BCR was the Parsnip River bridge at mp 548.1 where 644, M420W; 804, C425; and 640, M420W, lead a southbound on 28 May 1986.

 

 

In 1983, BCR opened the 82-mile branch to the coal mines around Tumbler Ridge. This joined the main line at Wakely Junction and because it featured some long tunnels was electrified at 50kV 60Hz. Therefore having made the long drive north from PG, much of it over poor logging roads, we were to say the least disappointed when a loaded coal train came off the new line on 28 May 1986 behind run-through CN power! GP40-2LW 9599 and SD50Fs 5425 and 5435. Apparently this rare occurrence was due to some OLE maintenance work going on.

 

 

From Wakely Junction the electrification continued a few miles south to Tacheeda where there were exchange sidings. Here we encountered a team from Balfour Beatty who were the contractors for the electrification who again made us most welcome - anyone daft enough to venture up there deserved to be treated royally. This modified caboose was used to inspect the OLE and in addition to the second cupola it had a pantograph. 

 

 

We took it in turns to put the pan up and down! We were also given a demonstration of how to isolate sections of the OLE which involved winding out a circuit breaker on the mast to the right. Our host did this very slowly creating a spectacular arc about 3' long - but at the same time telling the BCR guys to always do it as quickly as possible to avoid damage.

 

 

We were then taken for lunch at the adjacent bunk house which was more like a 5-star hotel with some of the biggest steaks I've seen being served and in North America that's saying something!

 

Unfortunately, while this was being enjoyed, the next train arrived from Tumbler Ridge which was electrically hauled. There were seven of these 6,000hp GF6Cs built by GM Canada on the same frame as the SD40-2.

 

 

Sadly the reign of the electrics was short lived and by 2002 all seven were stored at the back of the Prince George diesel shop awaiting their fate. 6001 was preserved at the PG railway museum but the rest were scrapped. After a period of diesel operation, the Tumbler Ridge sub was also abandoned soon after when the mines shut.

 

Mike

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mike_Walker

[dibber25]

A couple of shots when the Alberni Pacific was operating back in 2011. They capitalised on the Harry Potter interest but presumably skirted around the fees by calling it the Millwarts Express. Their Platform nine and three quarters arrangement was very clever. A doorway was 'bricked up' with a piece of foam rubber. It had a slit in the middle, so when the kids pushed against it in the ticket office, they emerged on the platform. The train was fully booked, so I couldn't travel but I took some line side shots instead. The 2-8-2ST has since been withdrawn as I think its boiler ticket has expired. (CJL)

[roundhouse]

Fascinating photos of the BCR>

 

We managed ot travel on the penultimate run of the RDC's form Vancouver North to Prince George in 2002. It was veeyt much last minute as the train had been fully booked for a while then we got an email under two weeks to go so booked some very cheap BA flights form Heathrow to Vancouver for a long weekend as I only had two days leave left.We flew back form Prince George on the Monday morning, spent the afternoon back in Vancouver and flew back home that evening overnight. We didnt really get chance for jet lag!

 

Really glad that we did that mad trip.

 

A photo of our train at Lilloet where they detached a few RDC's

 

 

In the sidings were the new railcars for the new local service once the RDC's finished

 

 

And a poor night time shot at Prince George

 

[Johann Marsbar]

A few BC Rail photos which I took at the end of March 2002 whilst on a short visit to the Vancouver area.

 

Northbound RDC's at Britannia Beach

 

 

Squamish yard

 

 

 

I believe the large building in the background in the last photo is now owned by the Railway Museum there.

 

 

[dibber25]

So sad that it's all gone. I dislike Rocky Mountaineer (well, actually I don't much like any tourist trains) but even considered a round trip using Rocky Mountaineer from Van to PG and VIA from PG to Jasper and Jasper to Van as I'd never got to PG on the BCR. It was the unreliability of the Canadian that put me off. Kicking my heels in Jasper for hours or even days, with no accommodation booked, didn't appeal. (CJL)

[The Lurker]

We were lucky with the Canadian - it was only an hour late into Jasper when we rode it three summers ago. We loved Jasper, but we had planned to stay there! If the virus plays ball, we will head back out to Canada next year.

[Mike_Walker]

5 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

 

 

 

 

I believe the large building in the background in the last photo is now owned by the Railway Museum there.

Does that mean they've moved from their site north of town to the Diesel Shop.? Pretty bold move if they have - it is huge and another example of investment that was cast aside.

 

Mike

 

Quote

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Mike_Walker

[Johann Marsbar]

1 hour ago, Mike_Walker said:

 

Does that mean they've moved from their site north of town to the Diesel Shop.? Pretty bold move if they have - it is huge and another example of investment that was cast aside.

 

 

They received a large grant (CDN$1 Million..) early last year to take over the diesel shop. The museum is presumably in the same place it was though.

Full details in this thread from RYPN last April....

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43207

You will even see that picture again!

Edited September 9, 2020 by Johann Marsbar

[dibber25]

5 hours ago, The Lurker said:

We were lucky with the Canadian - it was only an hour late into Jasper when we rode it three summers ago. We loved Jasper, but we had planned to stay there! If the virus plays ball, we will head back out to Canada next year.

I've ridden the Canadian several times. Westbound journeys were ok but I generally had an overnight booked in Vancouver anyway. Eastbound in 2013 was a lousy journey from the outset with a near 5-hour delay in New Westminster because a freight ahead of us had a loco failure and had to be divided in the middle of the night, in the siding next to where we were standing! The car I was in - Stuart Manor - was in poor mechanical shape, rode badly and had wheel flats. This was particularly obvious next night when the engineer was trying to make up time and it became impossible to sleep and almost impossible to stay in bed as the car lurched around. We got in to Toronto after lunch (makeshift because supplies had run out) instead of after breakfast. I left a note of complaint in my compartment. The steward found it and said he would report the car, which he said he had ridden several times that summer and it was getting worse each time. Since then, of course, they have introduced Prestige Class which means that ordinary sleeping car passengers cannot access the rear lounge (the best place on the train) despite paying something like £1,500 for a ticket. Prestige class is unaffordable at about three times that price (and you still suffer the delays waiting to pass freights). I've stayed in (or near) Jasper, too, and loved the place but I get twitchy if my travel plan is disrupted. In 2018 I did Sudbury-White River and back on the RDCs. It was a super, faultless trip thanks to the Train Manageress and excellent pathing by CP Rail so that return arrival was actually early.

Picture shows RDC4 and RDC2 forming VIA 186 after arrival at Sudbury. It was originally intended that the E&N would have a similar RDC pair, to accommodate cycles etc for up-island trips. The other picture shows a poster that was in Victoria Airport lounge, - an artist's impression of the E&N development at the Roundhouse. Note that the railway actually ends at the dark-coloured crossing right in the middle of the picture and that there is no provision at the site for a station, which, in any case would be too far out of downtown, as was the 1970s station which was replaced by the one close to the Johnson Street bridge. (CJL)

[pH]

On 08/09/2020 at 01:11, Jim49 said:

 There was no signage  on any face of it, e.g. to advertise the Roundhouse Museum or other attraction, so please does anyone know what its purpose is?

This gives some background:

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/yaletown-caboose

 

The dates in the article are rather confusing. It’s dated in 2017, but talks about an event in 2011 as in the future. I think at least some of it was cut and pasted from a BIA publication about the ‘heritage street furnishings’ program from 2011.

 

The decoration appears to have been applied later - 2016/17:

 

https://www.blastmediainc.com/blog/caboose-with-canadian-spirit

 

[Johann Marsbar]

Staying with BCR operations, my first visit to Canada was back in 1989 when I combined a VIA Rail system pass with city stays in Toronto and Vancouver.

Whilst in Vancouver, I was able to see the departure(s) of the BCR steam specials from North Vancouver one morning, but my biggest regret is that I did not make any effort to travel on them. I had worked out a full programme of things to do on the 3 days I was in Vancouver and didn't expect to visit the place again for some considerable time. As it turned out I was back there in less than two years.......

 

Both the Royal Hudson and the CPR 2-8-0 were working trains that morning, which was a bonus!

 

 

 

 

 

[Jim49]

Thanks to PhilJ W and Ph for their replies about the mystery wagon.  You were spot on Phil with your comment that  it was a caboose with the "conning tower" removed. I should have realised that myself, especially with the verandas on each end. And Peter, your cutting from the Daily Hive explains clearly what it's doing parked on a main street.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jim