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The Fatadder

1998/99 TPO formations

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Most annoyingly I have lost my research on this subject when my previous laptop died, I know I had a scan of a Rail Express article on there (the paper copy long since having gone the way of the prototype TPOs...)

 

Having started my first TPO Bachmann / DC Kits hybrid model last weekend, I want to try and work out which other kits I am going to need to build. I am undecided as to whether or not to model a full length Plymouth rake, or go for the shorter Dover formation. Does anyone have a list showing the breakdown of coach types that formed these services? (I know this was covered in the aforementioned Rail Express article...)

 

 

I am also really struggling to find decent photos, after the loss of Fotopic it seems that all the alternative photo websites throw up a hell of a lot more non railway photos comparatively to Fotopic.

 

Does anyone know of any good collections of TPO detail photos?

 

 

 

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Have to say that PDF makes fascinating reading, though not sure I can face making up anymore Southern pride kits just yet!!!

 

I must admit I would have loved to have read a copy of that Rail express article. I did get in touch with them about a back issue but did not receive a reply.

 

Nile

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I followed the TPO workings quite extensively in the mid 90's. My interest being in the workings, formations, liveries and due to a work colleague the postmarks associated with each working. Due to a change of job in 97 and also a change to the structure of the workings the opportunity to view the TPO's slowed down but I have a lot of pictures that I took of the vehicles primarily for modelling purposes. A number were on my Fotopic site and I havent had a chance yet of adding them to my Flickr site. (many are still pics... not scanned)

 

Below are some of the late workings I saw at Bristol and hope they may help:-

 

Bristol TM 30.3.98 Mid North TPO 47783 94490 94428 80342 80400 80352 80378 94413 94448

Bristol TM 31.3.98 Mid North TPO 47738 94467 94447 80356 80433 80344 80334 94420 94403

Bristol TM 13.4.99 Mid North TPO 47775 94444 94456 80356 80426 80337 80341 94487 94437

 

A couple of earlier formations:-

 

Truro 1.8.95 Penzance-Bristol TPO 47791 92582 92319 80344 80438 80380 92617 92385

Carlisle 1.3.95 Crewe-peterborough TPO 47625 92716 92122 80360 80413 80347 92105 92413

 

Hope this is of some help.

Steve

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Well it is a long time since I started looking at 1997/98/99 TPOs, but its about time I got on with the modelling of it.

 

Working from the EWS document provided by Stuey above, I have pulled out two formations that would have ran in Devon:

Bristol > Penzance

 

NFA, NSA, NTA, NSA(t), NFA, NBA, NBA

 

Plymouth > Willensden 

NAA, NTA, NSA(t), NSA, NTA, NSA, NTA, NAA

 

Along with one roughly worked out from photos: 

NBA, NSA, NSA(t), NTA, NSA, NTA, NBA

 

Now I am trying to find more photo sources ideally showing full formations (with numbers) so I can get the right mix of diagrams.  

I would welcome any further information if anyone has it.

 

One particular question is with respect to the NUA break stowage vans, I have seen evidence of these in Plymouth during the EWS period, however there is no mention of them in the formations.  I am assuming that given they were no longer required as a break coach (given the role was fulfilled by either the Super BG or the PCV).  As a result would have been used interchangeably with the standard NTA stowage vans?

 

 

I wish that I had my copy of the MRM and REX articles on the subject, but will not get a chance to get them out of storage until September...

 

First up will be the NUA purely because I already have the sides, which will join my existing NTA.  I will then need to source 3 more kits for the NSAs (and NSA(t) which I assume is the transducer fitted coach?).  Construction will be using the DC kits sides fitted to Bachmann Mk1s as per the NTA I have previously built. 

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Work has now started on converting the Bachmann / ModelZone NSX in Travelling Post Office livery in to a 1998 NSA, changing the doors for the secure version and filling in the windows / drilling out the small version.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/50/entry-21680-tpo-nsa-modernising-a-Bachmann-pos/

 

Now watch Bachmann bring out the later design NSAs...

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I've a feeling there is a rail express magazine recently out on train formations which I think has some sectorisation mail trains and TPO formations.

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I've a feeling there is a rail express magazine recently out on train formations which I think has some sectorisation mail trains and TPO formations.

They certainly covered it about 10 years ago, however my copy has vanished and my scan was lost when a computer failed...

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I've a feeling there is a rail express magazine recently out on train formations which I think has some sectorisation mail trains and TPO formations.

It was Rail Express Train Formations Handbook published this year. It is available via www.classic magazines.co.uk

 

It did cover TPO workings.

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That makes sense, does it have formations for the Penzance TPO included? I can’t remember off the top of my head an I’d rather not buy another copy of an article I’ve already bought previously only to find out the info contained is not relevant

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Another question,

 

Regarding specific coaches on certain TPO services, other than the NUAs which seemed to only work with the 1V40 Great Western TPO, were specific coaches kept as fixed rakes, or were they kept as a pool and randomly allocated.

 

The aforementioned 1V40 consisted of NAA, NTA, NSA, NTA, NSA, NSA(t), NUA, NAA

 

Now I have part finished models of: an NUA 80457, NSA t a 1968 build with net provision no 80334, an NSA with large doors (but no net resource) built 1968 no80322, NSA with two small doors built 1972 no 80369, NTA with 3 small doors built 1973 no 80430, and one more NTA tbc (I like the look of 80400/1/2 with net recess, else it will be a large door from Bachmann)

post-54-0-56291700-1545848074_thumb.jpeg

post-54-0-04523900-1545848089_thumb.jpeg

post-54-0-96247200-1545848099_thumb.jpeg

post-54-0-49847800-1545848114_thumb.jpeg

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Another question,

 

Regarding specific coaches on certain TPO services, other than the NUAs which seemed to only work with the 1V40 Great Western TPO, were specific coaches kept as fixed rakes, or were they kept as a pool and randomly allocated.

 

The aforementioned 1V40 consisted of NAA, NTA, NSA, NTA, NSA, NSA(t), NUA, NAA

 

Now I have part finished models of: an NUA 80457, NSA t a 1968 build with net provision no 80334, an NSA with large doors (but no net resource) built 1968 no80322, NSA with two small doors built 1972 no 80369, NTA with 3 small doors built 1973 no 80430, and one more NTA tbc (I like the look of 80400/1/2 with net recess, else it will be a large door from Bachmann)

Great work. I too am building some O gauge tpo's. But i cant find any photos of 80400,401 or 402 on the other side to the net recess when they had the large windows before there conversion to the smaller slitty windows. 1967 - 1974 period.

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Really interesting. I hadn’t realised there were that many mail trains.

 

Would be interesting to see something similar for 10 years earlier.

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Really interesting. I hadn’t realised there were that many mail trains.

Would be interesting to see something similar for 10 years earlier.

For 1993 the Great Western TPO was basically the same for the core section but with one less NTA (with an NPX in its place) and a NEA in place of the NAA. (While the other end finished with the NUX as a purpose designed break)

 

Formations for more services from 1993 are included in an issue of Modrn Railway Modelling.

 

Of course all the coaches were duel fitted (x coded) rather than air break only)

 

I can’t go any earlier than that (at least not until you get to the late 40s where I have the full formation with coach numbers and diagrams for 1947 and 1948 for the Paddington - Penzance TPO.

Edited by The Fatadder

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Great work. I too am building some O gauge tpo's. But i cant find any photos of 80400,401 or 402 on the other side to the net recess when they had the large windows before there conversion to the smaller slitty windows. 1967 - 1974 period.

It’s a real shame that it’s so rarely seen (though it’s probably a good sign not to model if)

I want to know if it had the flush side akin to the POS coaches or more likely has the 3 doors typical of the POT. (And is the latter where they should be. Thinking about it, the Barrowmlre club has a book of coach drawings on their website which should hopefully clarify...

Will have a look...

 

Edit

Not found a drawing yet but have found a photo

https://allanjenks.smugmug.com/Other/Nene-Valley-Railway-Stocklist/i-szRQvpQ

Edited by The Fatadder

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I can help with the article if you PM me your email address :)

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Well it is a long time since I started looking at 1997/98/99 TPOs, but its about time I got on with the modelling of it.

 

Working from the EWS document provided by Stuey above, I have pulled out two formations that would have ran in Devon:

Bristol > Penzance

 

NFA, NSA, NTA, NSA(t), NFA, NBA, NBA

 

Plymouth > Willensden 

NAA, NTA, NSA(t), NSA, NTA, NSA, NTA, NAA

 

Along with one roughly worked out from photos: 

NBA, NSA, NSA(t), NTA, NSA, NTA, NBA

 

Now I am trying to find more photo sources ideally showing full formations (with numbers) so I can get the right mix of diagrams.  

I would welcome any further information if anyone has it.

 

One particular question is with respect to the NUA break stowage vans, I have seen evidence of these in Plymouth during the EWS period, however there is no mention of them in the formations.  I am assuming that given they were no longer required as a break coach (given the role was fulfilled by either the Super BG or the PCV).  As a result would have been used interchangeably with the standard NTA stowage vans?

 

 

I wish that I had my copy of the MRM and REX articles on the subject, but will not get a chance to get them out of storage until September...

 

First up will be the NUA purely because I already have the sides, which will join my existing NTA.  I will then need to source 3 more kits for the NSAs (and NSA(t) which I assume is the transducer fitted coach?).  Construction will be using the DC kits sides fitted to Bachmann Mk1s as per the NTA I have previously built.

 

For the uninitiated amongst us,

could someone explain the codes

(NUA, NTA etc) and how they

compare to the old POS, POT codes.

 

Thanks.

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For the uninitiated amongst us,

could someone explain the codes

(NUA, NTA etc) and how they

compare to the old POS, POT codes.

 

Thanks.

Nice and easy

 

NSA = NSX = POS - sorting van

NTA = NTX = POT - stowage van

NUA = NUX = BPOT - Break stowage van

 

They went from xxX to xxA in the mid to late 90s when the vac breaks were removed leaving them air break only.

Edited by The Fatadder

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Nice and easy

NSA = NSX = POS - sorting van

NTA = NTX = POT - stowage van

NUA = NUX = BPOT - Break stowage van

They went from xxX to xxA in the mid to late 90s when the van breaks were removed leaving them air break only.

Thanks for the info and the quick response.

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Think 'van brakes' should read vacuum

Edited by keefer

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