GWR Steam Roller Wagon Trains Formation

[Kev T]

I'm building a bogie steam roller wagon to diagram F2. These were used to transport GWR owned steam rollers and their water wagons to GWR depots, presuambly to build or repair the station and goods yards and approaches. I'm guessing that the stream rollers would have been in use from the turn of the last century through to the late 30s' ish.

My question is, how would these have been marshalled into trains? Would they have been used in a dedicated train of say engineers wagons and mineral wagons, maybe a tar boiler and perhaps a bitumen tank? Would they have been part of a mixed goods train and delivered to their destination as part of a normal freight run? I have literaly no idea, and Russell and Tourett et al don't throw much light on this type of working.

 

cheers

Kev

[Adrian Wintle]

I would guess, and it is only a guess, that they would be used on an 'as required' basis, and so would have been attached to whatever train was appropriate to get them to their destination, with or without any supporting wagons depending on where the raw materials would be coming from. I doubt if they would have had a dedicated set of wagons as each job would have had different demands.

 

Adrian

[The Stationmaster]

There were some loading Instructions for steam rollers and there might possibly have been some Marshalling Instructions as well but I can't check until I get home tomorrow I'm sorry.

[Kev T]

Thanks for the input chaps. I was hoping to make an accurate train formation.

Mike, I'd be interested in any info you can find.

 

Kev

[buffalo]

Somewhere I've seen a photo of one of these wagons with the roller parked in a country station siding. IIRC there were no other wagons in sight so I suspect it was either delivered by itself, or by a pick-up goods train. Unfortunately, I haven't yet been able to find the photo.

 

Nick

[The Stationmaster]

The main Instructions which I can find seem apply to both loading and not to marshalling and I hope they will perhaps be of some us. Regrettably I cannot easily date the changes made in the interwar year except to say that the 1911 Instructions were still in force in 1927 which means they were changed between then and early 1936 to the later Instructions I have included below - my suspicions are that the change took place in the mid 1930s but I don't think I will be able to date it accurately from the Minute Books I have, sorry. Circular 2220 of January 1911 applied to all items such as 'engines' (i.e traction engines) and 'machines' (which would have included steam rollers plus vans on their own wheels.

 

Running wheels of 'engines' were to be secured by means of scotches and ropes, and 'driving or fly wheels' were to be thoroughly secured by ropes.

 

Vans 'must have the wheels fastened to the trucks (i.e. wagon) by ropes, straps or chains and, in addition, the leading end of the van bodies (sic) must be secured to each side of the railway trucks by ropes passed over the cross-bar underneath the van bodies (generally known as the body bolster bar), the ropes afterwards being tightly braced.'

Lift vans were to be loaded in low-sided wagons, i.e. one to three planks high and must be securely roped or chained to the wagon (I doubt that any internal vans were lift vans but it could have been possible - if they had lifting eyes they were 'lift vans') and the reason for using low-side wagons was to allow them to be craned where a crane had insufficient lift to get them out of a high(er) sided wagon.

Circular 1730 issued in December 1911 contained a number of restrictions on the marshalling of wagons 'loaded with boilers, girders or other heavy traffic' which i consider would almost certainly have applied to steam rollers and traction engines but did not apply to light vans (which I interpret as basically delivery vans as the Instruction refers specifically to Fry's Cocoa Vans and furniture vans) when loaded on certain types of vehicle. The 'heavy' bit applied to oil axlebox wagons of the following types, 'viz., Pollen, Totem, Crocodile, Coral, Beaver, Morel, Loriot, Serpent, Hydra A, Gane, Macaw B and Open C - all of which were prohibited (when loaded 'heavy') from trains shown in the WTT as Fish, Live Stock, Meat, Fruit, Vegetables, Perishable or Vacuum brake fitted or any other goods train carrying C Lamps. Any other types of wagons carrying such heavy loads were only allowed to run in trains carrying H, J or K headlights and were limited to a maximum speed of 25mph and were not allowed to run more than 25 miles without a stop for examination.

All vehicles carrying such loads were to be marshalled immediately in front of the rear brake van although this restriction did not apply to vehicles carrying vans.

I don't know if tar would have been conveyed in tank cars or in dry (asphalt blocks) form but if produced by the Company it would presumably have not been in solid form and thus in a tank car - these were restricted depending on the type of axlebox and grease box tank wagons were prohibited on Class C, E and F trains, tank wagons with oil boxes were prohibited on Class C trains and only allowed on Class e by special authority.

N.B. The classes of trains referred to above are as they were in 1920/21

The Instructions in respect of the loading of steam rollers were greatly amplified by the 1930s (and remained in force until at least 1960) with specific restrictions placed on the type of Loriot or Rectank to be used depending on the weight of the roller. In summary -

10 ton Loriot K - rollers & engines not exceeding 6 tons

12 ton Loriots - " " 8 tons

15 ton Loriots - " " 10 tons

20 ton Loriots - " " 16 tons

25 ton Loriots - " " 18 tons

35 ton Rectanks - " " 10 tons

Additionally rollers etc not exceeding 12 tons could be loaded to 15 ton Loriots D No.s 42138 to 42155 and Loriots E No.s 42156 to 42184 and 42202 to 42205 provided the load was examined by an Inspector before despatch.

Roller etc wheels to be secure as follows - scotches at the front & rear of the rear wheels but the front wheels were not to be scotched but were to be 'substantially packed' withe 10"x5" sleepers at the sides only plus the roller was to be secured by chains (I might be able to put in a picture of this later but the original I have is fairly murky.

The marshalling Instructions underwent a number of amendments over the years but I think the key one is that by the late 1930s most types of loaded Loriot, Serpent D, Crocodile L (also when empty) were not permitted on trains carrying headlamps superior to Class F. Lightly loaded Loriots (which would not include steam rollers based on the above table of weights were permitted on higher class freight trains although this was restricted in post war years. As far as I can trace the requirement to marshal loaded Loriots next to the brakevan had gone by the 1930s.

[Kev T]

Thanks Mike

a lot of detailed info there.

 

Closely reading your reply it would appear that these wagons would have been marshalled into a mixed goods train. I think what I'll do is to make up a stopping goods train with the roller wagon at the end and perhaps use my imagination as to what else would conceivably have been required.

 

Kev

[Bristol Bob]

I to am going down this route . How did yours pan out. looking at a support/living van to give the driver/fireman some were to live on a loriot .Tar wagon and stone. to complete. Scorpio shows rectangle water cart .loaded on the F2 . Ted Kansas in GWR models is using a round tank ? Wondered if to apply tar. And  possibly a horse box to move living van and water/ tar sprays ? Cart for moving stone. Bob savage

 

[jim.snowdon]

Since the rollers that these wagons carried were for the maintenance of the company's roads, the likelihood is that they never worked very far away from stations, in which case any living/workshop accommodation is more likely to have been a four wheel carriage demoted into engineer's service and converted appropriately. The only roads outside of station areas for which the railway could have had responsibility would have been any overbridges built to carry existing roads over the line when it was built and i would suggest that whilst the GW would have retained responsibility for the masonry, they would have come to an agreement for the highway authority to maintain the road surface.

 

Road surfaces at the time these wagons were built, and for a long time after, were simply compacted stone, the fines forming a relatively solid surface. The water tanks with which these wagons seem to have become irrevocably associated (thanks, I suspect, to a certain kit manufacturer) were for damping down the road surface after it was rolled. Granted, there are not many photographs about of the steamroller wagons, but of the five published, the water carts only appear in those pictures taken in the early years of the last century. Russell has two that were taken in the late GWR period, and neither has an accompanying water cart.

 

When tarred roads, ie roads made by spreading a coating of 'tar' and covering it with fine stone, became more normal, the 'tar' was a grade of bitumen that was solid at normal temperatures. In more urban areas a common way of getting it to site was a steam road tanker (useful for keeping the contents hot and fluid) equipped with a spray bar at the rear. A surprising number of quite small towns had their own gas works, which would have provided a potential source of both the raw material and the means to shift it, but in more remote areas, it would have had to come, by train, in solid form and melted in a portable tar boiler. Fresh stone would have arrived by train, as would a supply of coal, although that could equally have been sourced from the local merchant on an as required basis.

 

Jim

[Bristol Bob]

Plenty of food for thought. Thanks Jim.