Use of roller gauge

[martin_wynne]

Is there a difference between "loose heeled switches" and "pivot heeled"?

Hi Pete,

 

Not really. "Loose-heel" is the normal term in the UK. I'm not too sure what the prototype term is in America because there almost all switches are of that type anyway. I know US modellers refer to them as "pivoted". It's not quite the right term because a pivot suggests a vertical pin or shaft rotating in a hole or bearing, which is not the case. However, the American heel-block design differs from UK practice and is much more substantial for the heavy US flat-bottom rail sections. I have also seen the term "hinged" used.

 

Most standard-gauge UK switch renewals since about 1925 (1930 on the GWR) have been of the "flexible" or "spring" type where the switch rail is held firmly at the heel and flexed into position. The two switch blades are sprung against each other so that the force needed to move them over is not much greater than for the loose-heel design.

 

The old loose-heel switches came in a much wider range of sizes and types, so by using the appropriate geometry modellers can often fit turnouts in a smaller space and/or with an easier radius. As Craig mentioned, it's not necessary to actually build them with loose-heels if you don't want to.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

Gosh, Martin, there seem plenty of permutations.

Hi Jonte,

 

That's just the start. There are several different switch designs and lengths and different V-crossing geometries and angles.

 

And those are simple straight turnouts. In practice you would very likely want to curve them to fit your layout. The result is an infinite number of different designs, which is why building your own track is the only way to get truly prototypical track layouts.

 

 

Please forgive my ignorance but could I use the diagrams posted as templates?

All things are possible but as Craig explained they will be fuzzy and very difficult to print at exactly the right size. I will upload a PDF file shortly so that you can print them properly.

 

However, the idea is that you buy Templot and print your own.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[trisonic]

Hi Pete,

 

Not really. "Loose-heel" is the normal term in the UK. I'm not too sure what the prototype term is in America because there almost all switches are of that type anyway. I know US modellers refer to them as "pivoted". It's not quite the right term because a pivot suggests a vertical pin or shaft rotating in a hole or bearing, which is not the case. However, the American heel-block design differs from UK practice and is much more substantial for the heavy US flat-bottom rail sections. I have also seen the term "hinged" used.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

It was actually Keith G. who used both terms on one of his website photo collections of trackage from the UK. I couldn't see the difference between the two photos. I haven't heard them referred to as pivoted in the US (but I lead a sheltered life over here and in such a vast country terminology may change from company to company).

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[craigwelsh]

It was actually Keith G. who used both terms on one of his website photo collections of trackage from the UK. I couldn't see the difference between the two photos. I haven't heard them referred to as pivoted in the US (but I lead a sheltered life over here and in such a vast country terminology may change from company to company).

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Best, Pete.

I'd picked up on the industrial use of the word from this page of an rmweb member:

http://www.norgrove.me.uk/resources/track.htm

[trisonic]

That's the page. D'oh Keith G. I meant Keith N!

 

Thanks, Pete.

[martin_wynne]

That's the page. D'oh Keith G. I meant Keith N!

That web page is a former Scalefour Society page showing a collection of members' pictures -- Keith is the Scalefour webmaster. The pictures showing the industrial switches are from Richard Spratt, who no doubt also provided the captions.

 

Keith is a professional railway engineer, I don't think he would call them pivoted.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[craigwelsh]

That web page is a former Scalefour Society page showing a collection of members' pictures -- Keith is the Scalefour webmaster. The pictures showing the industrial switches are from Richard Spratt, who no doubt also provided the captions.

 

Keith is a professional railway engineer, I don't think he would call them pivoted.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

I think Rob Milliken had been webmaster during the recent redesign of the website but apologies to Keith if that isn't correct..

[Guest jonte]

Hi Jonte,

 

That's just the start. There are several different switch designs and lengths and different V-crossing geometries and angles.

 

And those are simple straight turnouts. In practice you would very likely want to curve them to fit your layout. The result is an infinite number of different designs, which is why building your own track is the only way to get truly prototypical track layouts.

 

 

 

All things are possible but as Craig explained they will be fuzzy and very difficult to print at exactly the right size. I will upload a PDF file shortly so that you can print them properly.

 

However, the idea is that you buy Templot and print your own.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

Thank you, Martin. Perhaps I shall opt for Templot eventually; meanwhile, I have to be certain that bespoke trackwork is for me. Not getting any younger; I'm sure you'll understand.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte

[hayfield]

Thank you, Martin. Perhaps I shall opt for Templot eventually; meanwhile, I have to be certain that bespoke trackwork is for me. Not getting any younger; I'm sure you'll understand.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte

 

After visiting a few shows and seeing fine track building being demonstrated mostly by senior modellers, I can only assume they are like fine wine and get better as they age.

[martin_wynne]

I will upload a PDF file shortly so that you can print them properly.

Here you go:

 

00_sf_b6_12ft6.pdf

 

Martin.

[Guest jonte]

Here you go:

 

00_sf_b6_12ft6.pdf

 

Martin.

 

Gratefully received, Martin.

 

I hope I can do them justice.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte

[R A Watson]

Jonte,

 

I am a very happy customer of Martin and have used Templot for some time now, my advice woud be to ignore the kits, buy Templot and individual components, then draw up and make the custom bits which will fit your layout!

 

Just to try and convince you here is a couple of shots of my current project, it is Irish (3 foot) narrow gauge in 7mm but the model gauge is 21mm and the rail is aproximately code 100, so not too far from 4mm FS in actual size.

 

 

Here the Templot templates are stuck to a 3 foot long melamine shelf as a building base showing how you can make the track fit to your requirements.

 

 

This is a detail shot which I hope will illustrate how you can make use of the finer points of the Templot drawing which I have never found on the commercial kit makers templates (although I must state that it is many years since I have built one of the commercial kits)

 

Hope this inspires you to make the next great step to realistic trackwork.

[Donw]

If you study the prototype and build your own without recourse to templates you find there is quite a lot of latitude in what you can do. One factor is the lower effects of inertia on our models compared to full size this means that the benefits of the A,B,C etc curved and semi curved switches compared to the older straight switches have less value our models can negotiate a 12ft or 9ft switch at speeds the prototype could not ( well not safely anyway). Most comercial points use a heel switch where the blade section is pivoted. This allows the blade to move through a greater angle as necessary to allow widerflangeways as well as helping to shorten the point length. While these may work well enough to me thay lack the realism of handbuilt track. I do hope you persevere and find making trackwork a pleasure.

Don

[trisonic]

Wally, there is something wrong with your second "detailed" photo...............actually not the photo but the template.

 

Best, Pete.

[Guest jonte]

Jonte,

 

I am a very happy customer of Martin and have used Templot for some time now, my advice woud be to ignore the kits, buy Templot and individual components, then draw up and make the custom bits which will fit your layout!

 

Just to try and convince you here is a couple of shots of my current project, it is Irish (3 foot) narrow gauge in 7mm but the model gauge is 21mm and the rail is aproximately code 100, so not too far from 4mm FS in actual size.

 

 

Here the Templot templates are stuck to a 3 foot long melamine shelf as a building base showing how you can make the track fit to your requirements.

 

 

This is a detail shot which I hope will illustrate how you can make use of the finer points of the Templot drawing which I have never found on the commercial kit makers templates (although I must state that it is many years since I have built one of the commercial kits)

 

Hope this inspires you to make the next great step to realistic trackwork.

 

Very inspiring stuff indeed, Wally, thank you.

 

Flows very nicely and I'll bet you can work on the electrics, motion and ballasting too so that the whole can be eventually slotted into place.

 

Thanks for sharing,

 

Jonte

[Guest jonte]

Jonte,

 

I am a very happy customer of Martin and have used Templot for some time now, my advice woud be to ignore the kits, buy Templot and individual components, then draw up and make the custom bits which will fit your layout!

 

Just to try and convince you here is a couple of shots of my current project, it is Irish (3 foot) narrow gauge in 7mm but the model gauge is 21mm and the rail is aproximately code 100, so not too far from 4mm FS in actual size.

 

 

Here the Templot templates are stuck to a 3 foot long melamine shelf as a building base showing how you can make the track fit to your requirements.

 

 

This is a detail shot which I hope will illustrate how you can make use of the finer points of the Templot drawing which I have never found on the commercial kit makers templates (although I must state that it is many years since I have built one of the commercial kits)

 

Hope this inspires you to make the next great step to realistic trackwork.

[Guest jonte]

If you study the prototype and build your own without recourse to templates you find there is quite a lot of latitude in what you can do. One factor is the lower effects of inertia on our models compared to full size this means that the benefits of the A,B,C etc curved and semi curved switches compared to the older straight switches have less value our models can negotiate a 12ft or 9ft switch at speeds the prototype could not ( well not safely anyway). Most comercial points use a heel switch where the blade section is pivoted. This allows the blade to move through a greater angle as necessary to allow widerflangeways as well as helping to shorten the point length. While these may work well enough to me thay lack the realism of handbuilt track. I do hope you persevere and find making trackwork a pleasure.

Don

 

Thanks, Don.

 

 

Jonte

[R A Watson]

Wally, there is something wrong with your second "detailed" photo...............actually not the photo but the template.

 

Best, Pete.

 

Pete,

 

I am aware of the mismatch of the ends of the guard rail (and the running rail covered by the length of real rail) This is the result of a "cut and shut" operation resulting from the number of pages required.

 

As the stock rail will be gauged off the crossing nose, as will the guard; correction will be automatic so I did not bother to reprint the misplaced bit!

 

Nice to know someone is paying attention.

[Guest jonte]

After replacing the ink cartridge in the printer, I was able to print off the template kindly forwarded by Martin and eventually make a start. Here's where I'm up to:

 

 

As you can see, I decided to fabricate the crossing vee using the method advocated by Martin in an earlier post. There again, perhaps you can't and I apologise, yet again, for the poor quality of the shots. However, I was quite satisfied with the outcome. I've rounded off the nose of the vee - as much as I dare anyway - and slightly rounded off the top of the nose too, Craign. I've yet to shave a sliver off the top so that it falls below the level of the tops of the wingrails and round off the rail head in this area, but that can wait until tomorrow; don't want to rush things B) I must say that I find the Templot plan is much easier to work from BTW.

 

Anyway, more tomorrow; hopefully I'll finish while it's still daylight so's I can get a decent shot to show the detail.

 

Thanks all for your help and encouragement.

 

Jonte

 

BTW, Craig, the splice rail is situated on the diverging road this time

[craigwelsh]

all looks great to me and that bit of paper with the sums on looks familiar though I did the 1 up, 8 along bit in a CAD package .

[Guest jonte]

all looks great to me and that bit of paper with the sums on looks familiar though I did the 1 up, 8 along bit in a CAD package .

 

Thanks, Craig. Still early days but I remain optimistic

 

I'm afraid CAD and all other types of hi-tech stuff frightens the life out of me. Hence my back-of-an-envelope track plans

Templot has me positively apoplectic - please don't mention it to Martin

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte

[Guest jonte]

Hi All

 

Just an update to report that my second attempt at completing a turnout to 'OO-SF' standards is complete; this time a B6 with a 12 foot switch(?) as kindly forwarded by Mr. Martin Wynne.

 

Here's a photo which I hope you will find useful:

 

 

Overall, I'm quite pleased! Motion over crossing and switches extremely smooth. I'm also pleased to say that the problem of a harsh change in direction when traversing the diverging road has been eliminated.

 

Found the longer switch rails a bit of a problem this time, though, and had to replace the thicker tie bar - this would have been more robust, I feel - with the slimmer version you see. Problem two fold: the rails wouldn't close tightly enough against the stock rails, and at one point while soldering, a rail became soldered to the stock rail DESPITE using a rather thick sliver of paper between them.

 

Don't know how anybody else goes about this, but the procedure I adopted to ensure a wide enough flangeway between switch and stock rails AND ensure that the switches closed tightly against the stock rails, was to solder the straight switch first while it was aginst it's respective stock rail. Then, place a PCB sleeper between the newly soldered straight switch and it's stockrail; then solder the curved switch to the tie bar, again while resting against it's respective tie bar.

 

Does anybody do it differently?

 

Finally, I'm quite pleased with the results as I've said. However (!!!) there was some stalling of the engine and humming of it's motor while traversing the straight road in the vicinity of the vee (please forgive my ignorance again folks, but I think I'm right in saying that this is an indication of a tight fit somewhere? Anyway, double checked my measurements which are as accurate as can be and compliant with the dimensions as laid down by the 'OO-SF' society. So, turned my calipers on the engine: BTB of driving wheels are 14.21 and 14.22 and bogies a tad over 14.1.

 

Now, if memory serves me rightly, it is the engine, therefore, which is at fault and NOT the track as BTBs need to be in excess of 14.3 mm ?

 

Incidentally, the Bachmann wheelsets I've been using to test the tolerances are in excess of 14.3 mm.

 

Any advice deeply appreciated.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte

[Donw]

Your method of setting the tie bar is fine. I normally aim for the point blades to have a wider gap than the check rails because the latter have flared ends to guide the wheels in. Want you don't want is wheels catching the tip of the open blade.

Regarding the use of computer systems. You do not need to use Templot to design a layout getting templot to print a template for say a 12ft straight switch 1:6 point is fairly easy. Its stiching things together that can be fiddly. However if it doesn't suit you can build turnouts without. I have worked for years using the crossing angle and a table of leads. Working out the sleepering to look right and using a few helpful photos. If you want to go that route I will send you a set of useful dimensions. However you could probably build a complete layout from the templates Martin has sent you.

You could try easing the check rails a little (bit of emery paper or a fine file) but leave the wingrails alone if it is a bit tight. However you need to watch it pass through slowly. I have a 45xx which didn't like my A5.5 points I found the pony truck frame was touching the back of the cylinder which tilted it making the opposite pony wheel derail so It looked like the problem was the opposite side.

Don

[Guest jonte]

Your method of setting the tie bar is fine. I normally aim for the point blades to have a wider gap than the check rails because the latter have flared ends to guide the wheels in. Want you don't want is wheels catching the tip of the open blade.

Regarding the use of computer systems. You do not need to use Templot to design a layout getting templot to print a template for say a 12ft straight switch 1:6 point is fairly easy. Its stiching things together that can be fiddly. However if it doesn't suit you can build turnouts without. I have worked for years using the crossing angle and a table of leads. Working out the sleepering to look right and using a few helpful photos. If you want to go that route I will send you a set of useful dimensions. However you could probably build a complete layout from the templates Martin has sent you.

You could try easing the check rails a little (bit of emery paper or a fine file) but leave the wingrails alone if it is a bit tight. However you need to watch it pass through slowly. I have a 45xx which didn't like my A5.5 points I found the pony truck frame was touching the back of the cylinder which tilted it making the opposite pony wheel derail so It looked like the problem was the opposite side.

Don

 

 

Thanks, Don. It's reassuring to know my tie bar method is fine.

 

Your method of 'laying out' sounds interesting, and your offer of sharing very kind, however, this is my first layout so want to keep things simple for now (straight track with straight points in between!!). You're almost right when you say I've compiled sufficient templates from Martin to build the whoe layout, however, I'm missing the right handed versions. Perhaps I can lace his palm with silver for the remainder?

 

Regarding adjustment of the check rail: have decided to shy away from this as the problem is with the tight gauge settings of the loco and not the track work i.e. anything over 14.30 mm is compatible and in no way do I want to compromise this (I'd rather retire the M7 - sadly). However, I think all may well have been rectified as the result of a query placed on the 'Questions' forum. Essentially, I was advised to place a pair of small flat ended screwdrivers either side of a wheelset between the wheel and chassis and....ahum!....gently ease ea ch wheel outwards. After mustering a little courage earlier this morning, I set about my task and after one squeeze, the drivers were squeezed out to 14.31 and 14.32 mm respectively - and there doesn't appear to have been any damage caused - still going round square and true, so I'll consider it a success

 

Also took the opportunity to clean the wheelsets with a cotton bud dipped in white spirit while I was at it, so I shall retest a little later and publish the results.

 

In any case, whether it works or not, I'm not giving up on the 'OO-SF' approach and have decided to purchase a set of gauges to make life easier. It will be a shame if the M7 is deemed redundant but consider it an acceptable sacrifice in my quest for smooth running - simply flabbergasted by the performance of a variety proprietary stock over the points in the video made by the owner of 'Eastwood Town'.

 

Write later.

 

TTFN

 

Jonte

[martin_wynne]

You're almost right when you say I've compiled sufficient templates from Martin to build the whoe layout, however, I'm missing the right handed versions.

Hi Jonte,

 

Click the Flip or Mirror options on your printer to print them right-handed.

 

regards,

 

Martin.