RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted July 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2011 Gloucestershire and Warwickshire railway has been targeted by thieves stealing metal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-14248118 Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 On top of their other problems, this is absolutely horrendous. There must be a preserved railway out there somewhere that has some of the parts required for this steam loco that arrangements can be made for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Sounds like railways need to lock up their oxy-acetylene flame cutting equipment now as well if the thief's used the railways own equipment to get into storage. Hopefully parts off another Merchant Navy can be borrowed until they can make a new one. Not sure which other locos are affected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 It's about time scrap metal dealers were licensed, regulated and audited. Cut the supply of easy money by regulating the "fences" and the problem largely goes away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted July 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2011 It's about time scrap metal dealers were licensed, regulated and audited. Cut the supply of easy money by regulating the "fences" and the problem largely goes away. I'm sure BlackRat will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think scrap metal dealers have to keep a book of where things came from and what payments were made for. A Police Officer is able to request this at any time, although I do agree with you there should be decent regulation. Regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 This is horrendous news, as if they haven't already had enough setbacks this is another body blow for the hard working volunteers. I only hope that the ejector at least turns up following an appeal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I'm sure BlackRat will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think scrap metal dealers have to keep a book of where things came from and what payments were made for. A Police Officer is able to request this at any time, although I do agree with you there should be decent regulation. Regards, Nick. To drive my car on the road it has to be taxed, MoTed and insured and I have to have a valid driving licence- but lack of any of these does not mean I am unable to drive my car- just that I am doing it illegally and at risk of prosecution when caught. Breaking into someone else's property and helping yourself to their possessions is similarly illegal- but does not deter thieves from doing so. You need to remove the market for buying the stolen items - unless you can provide proof of ownership (with certified documentation etc) then you should be unable to sell an item to a scrap dealer. Getting them to keep a book seems not to offer any protection. Lack of entry in a book will only get the dealer denying that said item is anything to do with them. As far as I am concerned scrap dealers who buy what is obviously stolen metal from individuals are a culpable as the thieves themselves and should be appropriately prosecuted for receiving. There is a precedent for this as I came across one or two (ex) scrap dealers as a result of that very thing in my previous employment in a secure custodial environment.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted July 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2011 You need to remove the market for buying the stolen items - unless you can provide proof of ownership (with certified documentation etc) then you should be unable to sell an item to a scrap dealer. Getting them to keep a book seems not to offer any protection. Lack of entry in a book will only get the dealer denying that said item is anything to do with them. I'm not trying to argue with you Natalie, but if I had scrap metal in the form of my old greenhouse, which I inherited when I bought the house how would I be able to produce a certificate of ownership when it wasn't even listed in the deeds of the house? It would be almost impossible to do. People will always buy stolen goods (I'm not saying it's alright) as there are always crooks who are willing to purchase it. I just think it will be one of those areas which is almost impossible to police. Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Let's be clear, these larger thefts are most likely the work of organised criminal gangs, not opportunist thieves. It isn't beyond the wit of man - even scrap metal dealers - to require in law that all sellers must provide proof of identity. Nor is it going to far to make it an offence for dealers not to confirm identity and be required to report any suspicions (similar to the anti-money laundering regulations). A few bits of copper pipe and hot water cylinders is one thing, but being offered items of a distinctive shape (as stolen from preserved railways) or marked (as with signalling cables) with no questions asked should be treated as handling stolen goods and prosecuted accordingly. As I said before, remove the market for stolen metal and the problem largely goes away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I'm not trying to argue with you Natalie, but if I had scrap metal in the form of my old greenhouse, which I inherited when I bought the house how would I be able to produce a certificate of ownership when it wasn't even listed in the deeds of the house? It would be almost impossible to do. People will always buy stolen goods (I'm not saying it's alright) as there are always crooks who are willing to purchase it. I just think it will be one of those areas which is almost impossible to police. Regards, Nick That is a fair point- but what condition is it- I assume that it looks used and is obviously a domestic item- rather than something like an injector (how many households have one of these) or lengths of rail or cable marked 'Network Rail.' One wonders what the legitimate scrap dealers make of their less scrupulous colleagues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 As I said before, remove the market for stolen metal and the problem largely goes away. I doubt you'll get rid of the consumer culture of the western world though.. At the end of the day that is what is driving up the prices of metal making this worthwhile. Unless you can get the police to arrest them on site or track the item quickly it'll have already been destroyed making it worthless anyway and the prosecution probably wouldn't include getting the money for a new one from anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted July 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2011 That is a fair point- but what condition is it- I assume that it looks used and is obviously a domestic item- rather than something like an injector (how many households have one of these) or lengths of rail or cable marked 'Network Rail.' One wonders what the legitimate crap dealers make of their less scrupulous colleagues? Oh yeah certainly! That is wrong and the dealers concerned should be locked up, but if someone feels they can sell on a WW2 War Memorial then an injector is probably even easier to get shot of. Wire, well thats another matter! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 It will probably all end up being shipped to China in the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswjr Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Bad news for sure, I was at toddington yesterday they had just discovered that the scum had also taken all of the backhead fittings that belonged to their king george loco (this loco was going tobe sold to help finance the landslip) but now it is back to a barry hulk, cut their lowlife hands off i say. Garry mswjr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 There is an epetition that you might want to sign, but its got rather a long way to go to get to 100000 sigs... http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406 Cashless Scrap Metal Trade - Amendment to Scrap Metal Merchants Act 1964 Responsible department: Home Office Due to a significant rise in value, metal has become a much sought after commodity. This increased demand has resulted in a sharp rise in metal theft nationally. Metal fencing, gates, manhole covers and other metallic items are stolen on a regular basis. Property is raided for lead, copper and cabling. War memorials and statues have been taken. Overhead power lines are stolen at serious risk to personal safety with huge costs for replacement and major inconvenience to the public. Historically the scrap metal trade has been a cash in hand industry. This creates difficulties as there is no audit trail, making identification of individuals who may be trading stolen metal or who may be committing tax or benefits fraud, a difficult proposition. An amendment to the Scrap Metal Merchants Act 1964 to prohibit cash transactions would make payment by cheque or directly into a bank account mandatory and would be a significant component in reducing metal theft.'''''' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 17, 2011 I've signed up, the delays to trains up her in yorkshire are horrendous due to these vermin. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Well, it's been well over a year, but at last some progress http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20577638 Sadly, it seems another example of too little, too late. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Not sure about 'too little' and while it's too late for the victims, hopefully it will ultimately reduce the numbers of victims. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2012 Well, it's been well over a year, but at last some progress http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20577638 Sadly, it seems another example of too little, too late. Quite agree and will it really solve the problem? Obviously the metal dealers won't put stuff through their books if they think it's stolen - and presumably they have never done so? So all they need to do now is keep some cash in their back pockets, coat pockets, or whatever to pay for dodgy looking scrap that isn't booked-in and nobody is any the wiser unless they are spot checked or their premises is searched and unbooked scrap is found. The new restriction will undoubtedly have an impact but I suspect the truly bent dealers and metal thieves will unfortunately find a way around it as the potential profits are so great as to make it worthwhile. I do hope that doesn't happen but I'm not wholly optimistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The new restriction will undoubtedly have an impact but I suspect the truly bent dealers and metal thieves will unfortunately find a way around it as the potential profits are so great as to make it worthwhile. I do hope that doesn't happen but I'm not wholly optimistic. The only way it can truly work is for the Police to spend time 'testing' dealers with undercover cops and, of course, raising public awareness. If the public is aware of the law then they are more likely to inform the police should a scrappy offer cash. Not all will of course but it does provide an excellent mechanism for weeding out the dodgy dealers. The weeding out isn't going to be easy, of course, but it's a step in the right direction and certainly helps the police in trying to sift the good from the bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan100 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Quite by chance I went to my local scrappie on Friday afternoon to hand over the waste etched brass and nickel silver. I've never seen such a queue - quite a lot of banter about 'the last chance to get a Christmas bonus'. Geoff Comet Models Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Some people wil "lifted" anything these days,for few ££"s very sad.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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