Lubrication problem with Portescap motor/gearboxes

[Crichel Down]

I have several Portescap motor/gearbox units (1219, 1616 and1624), one or two of which have been fitted in locos, and the remainder arestill in their original boxes.

 

 

I bought them new some 20 or more years ago, and recall thatthey were said by the manufacturer to be ‘lubricated for life’.

 

 

Even the motors which were fitted in locos have not turned acog for many a long year, and when I looked recently at a loco-fitted example,I found that the gearbox had almost completely seized up. The final drive pinion could only be turnedby hand with great difficulty. I brieflyapplied power, but the motor was unable to move the gears, and I switched offquickly to avoid risking burning out the brushes.

 

 

Close examination of the gearbox does not reveal any sign ofthe original lubricant (a pink-coloured grease of some kind, as I recall), andI concluded that the lubricant had entirely dried out, although why this shouldhave the effect of causing the gearbox to seize up solid is a mystery to me, asthe grease seems to have evaporated completely, leaving no residue behind.

 

 

I am sure I am not the only person to have experienced thisproblem, so my question is (a) What needs to be done to ‘flush out’ anydried-up lubricant grease from the gearbox (bearing in mind that the use ofnylon bevel gears as the first stage in the gear chain would presumably be aconstraint in the choice of solvent)? and (What lubricant should be used tore-lubricate the gearbox, again bearing in mind the presence of the nylonbevels?

 

[hollywoodfoundry]

I would imagine a good squirt of WD40 would do the job, but keep it away from the motor. If you can, remove the motor from the gearbox first. Leave it for a day or two and see if the gearbox frees up. If so, then run it for a while with the just the WD40 as a lubricant.

 

I must say I cannot agree with the instruction 'lubricated for life', it just is not true.

[amdaley]

WD40 has its uses but be very careful especially if any kind of plastic is involved.

It is good for freeing out seized items but silicon spray is much better for lubrication & is kind to plastics.

[Horsetan]

Aha, another RG4 strategic reserve! I always knew there had to be another one in existence!!

 

Lubrication. Do not - ever - rely on WD40 as a lubricant. If using it to clean out old expired lubricant, fair enough, but never let the stuff sit on the gears on its own. Use a clock oil to re-lubricate.

 

I've had very good results with Labelle 102, which is plastics-compatible, and viscous enough to stay on the gears rather than getting thrown off. It is also red-brown in colour, very close to the original lubricant. When under power, you will see the 102 appear to "stretch" over and between the gears like a drive belt when in motion. Really clever stuff.

 

----> Also click here for the Comet Models / Ted Scannell guide to keeping the RG4 drivetrain quiet

[DLT]

I too have had this problem with a "strategic reserve" of RG4s. I worked a bit of white spirit in with a brush and gently worked the gears by hand until free. I then mopped and blew the spirit out as best I could and lubricated with RS multipurpose grease or some light oil (Daywat I think) from my local modellshop.

I definitely did NOT power it up before everything was running freely.. Even then I left it running for a while and it freed up even more.

Hope this help,

Dave.T

[billbedford]

This is the stuff you want. Switch cleaner -- Works wonders on the locos that come into t'shop

[JeffB]

I'd like to echo the sentiment of a few on WD-40. It's a fairly effective cleaner for metal parts. It removes old oil or other lubricant fairly efficiently. I recall being told that it is basically Kerosene, with a more pleasing fragrance added. It makes an excellent cutting/tapping/machining fluid for aluminum, but it's not a lubricant at all.

 

For degreasing and removing rosin soldering flux, I use white spirits almost exclusively (which is known as "Paint Thinner" or "Mineral Spirits" here in the USA). It is an excellent metal cleaner, but really dries out the metal (raw steel cleaned with it will rust very quickly if left untreated). I submerge entire mechanisms (motor and all) in it for a while, then use compressed air (outside of course) to blow everything dry. Lubricate everything lightly with Labelle 108 oil, turn the motor shaft by hand several revolutions and it should be ready to go.

 

For a "smell friendly" cleaner, regular 91% IPA/rubbing alcohol works OK, but don't submerge motors in it, as it can desolve some varnishes that are used on the windings for insulation.

 

For cleaning metal prior to using Loctite retaining compound or ACC, I use Acetone, which is also a great ACC desolver (on metal assemblies only!!!).

 

Jeff

[bertiedog]

The Portescap lubrication for life claim was just plain drivel,and put a lot of the other design claims under question when they came out.

 

La Belle grease is the nearest to the original type, just do not use car grease! Labelle silicon oil is fine for the bearings.

 

An alternative is the new High Technology "Nano oils" and "Nano greases" that are starting to be made available to the Railway Modeller in the States. These are special emulsions of oil, where one part never mixes with the other fractions, but is attracted to the metallic surfaces, the lighter fractions acting as the supporting lubricant. Mechanisms treated with the stuff show drops in friction,and increased efficiency in motors and gearboxes, in full sized uses as well as models.

They do not dry out as fast as ordinary oils and are getting popular in clockmaking etc, where long term lubricating is needed.They make a range of packs and grades, not cheap!!

 

nano link

 

No connection with company, only customer.

 

Stephen.

[Stringfingerling]

I know this is a late addtion to the thread, but I've found RS Components multipurpose grease works very well on Portescap gears.

[Theakerr]

I use electrical spray cleaner to clean off grease in "sensitive areas.  It almost acts as a wash and dries quickly.  

[Tim V]

This happened on Portescaps I had about 20 years ago! After a thorough degreasing, and re-lubrication they were fine.

 

BUT I got rid of all the Portescaps years ago now, sold well at the Bring and Buy. They had their day, but motors and gearboxes these days are much better than they used to be.

 

I don't regret the move.

[Stringfingerling]

I have several of different sizes; the two 1624s are superb - they are as smooth as silk and practically silent.  One of my 1219's is very good, the other has always had a noisy gearbox, and my 1616 is noisy.

 

I think there were gearbox quality control issues at some stage, but when they were good, they were fantastic.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Stringfingerling

[Bruciethefish]

I'd also recommend switch cleaner;- 'Super Servisol' for getting rid of the dried-out lubricant. Give the gearbox a good dousing in this stuff, then rotate by hand until it all frees up, then another squirt to flush the muck away. I've been using a teflon-based oil lately with good results....

[DayReturn]

It's the gum from the underside of the "ESCAP RG4 Made in England" label that is the root of the problem, I found. 

 

I have an RG4 1219 that has been sitting on a shelf for a very long time.  When I took it down to check it over, it was extremely stiff.  Power to the motor only made the bevel gear flicker momentarily and the motor start to get worryingly warm.  I tried some very careful lubrication with quality clock oil and tried leaving it for a few hours.  I tried turning it over via the exposed middle idler and my thumnail, but although I could make it move, it still remained excessively stiff.  I removed the motor from the gear train and checked the motor.  That turned over nicely with no load, so the motor was still intact.  With the gearbox alone, I ran the idler cog along some stripwood to turn it over a few score times didn't add much.  I wondered if doing so more briskly might generate enough friction heat to soften possible (theoretical) lubricant that had caked, but it made no difference.  I mounted the gearbox on the final drive gear on a length of 1/8" drill rod / silver steel axle rod and clamped the rod in a vice and spun the gear box around the rod, but it remained extremely stiff. 

 

Finally I took a deep breath and mounted the drill rod with the gearbox on it in the chuck of a Minicraft drill.  On powering on, the assembly spun around so much that the centripetal force pulled the sides of the drill case slightly apart, so stopped very quickly!  (Good thing that I used drill rod and not e.g. brass rod because anything softer would have bent with the possibility of bending within the gearbox and needing to be cut free.)  I tried again, this time holding the drill firmly and with the gearbox pushed against the worktop to stop it rotating with the rod.  The mini drill turned a few very reluctant revolutions and then sped up so that after a very few seconds it was turning easily.  Took the gearbox off , tried it by hand - no damage and turning nicely as it should.  I remounted the motor and ran it perfectly.  Checking over, one of the pinion axle holes buried under the label, had become visible, i.e. it had worn a small hole through the gummed label at the point when the mini-drill had freed it up. 

 

So if you don't have a length of 1/8" silver steel rod handy, peel off the label that is stuck on the side of the gearbox case and maybe use some carefully applied solvent to remove the label's gum residue - if that works you will know straightaway as the gears will turn over easily when you've done.  No need to dismantle the gearbox and only need to remove the motor if you are going to spin the final drive axle very fast.