Holy grail shots

[Michael Delamar]

L&Y Pemberton Loop Line, by passed Wigan Wallgate, ran from Pemberton to Hindley via the only mid line small signalbox at Westwood Park.

 

Photos of this line (especially the signalbox) are virtually non-existant. It was a busy line back in the early 60's, coal trains to Liverpool ex Yorkshire, westbound loaded picking up a banker (usually a fowler 4F) at Westwood Park. I could see a bit of it from my parents bedroom window. Last train tu use it was a non stop Liverpool Exchange to Manchester DMU, one direction only, passing Westwood park at 6.50pm every night. Finished around 1968 & line closed.

 

Westwood park would make a nice small but busy tail chaser exhibition layout.

 

Anyone know of any photo's - I asked at the L&Y stand at Wigan exhibition, but no photo's known

 

Brit15

 

is that the Welly loop?

 

if so there is some footage of it from 59 mins

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDPzcXbX44M&feature=related

[APOLLO]

No, not the Whelley loop. That was part of the Lancashire Union rly, later LNWR. It later was incorporated into the "Whelley Loop" by pass for Wigan North Western on the WCML, also other lines connected to it, GC at Amberswood, L&Y at Hindley, etc.

 

The Pemberton loop was built by the Lancashire & Yorkshire rly, as a by pass to Wigan Wallgate to allow 40 minute Liverpool - Manchester expresses, and goods trains. I remember the late 50's early 60's when I was young, processions of coal trains on this line, on every 30 mins or so some days. Very few photos / info seems to exist on this line.

 

Thanks for the interesting video though. The signals for the Westwood line can be seen at Pemberton Stn at 56min 35 secs !!

 

Brit15

[Debs.]

No, not the Whelley loop. That was part of the Lancashire Union rly, later LNWR. It later was incorporated into the "Whelley Loop" by pass for Wigan North Western on the WCML, also other lines connected to it, GC at Amberswood, L&Y at Hindley, etc.

 

The Pemberton loop was built by the Lancashire & Yorkshire rly, as a by pass to Wigan Wallgate to allow 40 minute Liverpool - Manchester expresses, and goods trains. I remember the late 50's early 60's when I was young, processions of coal trains on this line, on every 30 mins or so some days. Very few photos / info seems to exist on this line.

 

Thanks for the interesting video though. The signals for the Westwood line can be seen at Pemberton Stn at 56min 35 secs !!

 

Brit15

 

I came upon this useful map (zoomable) when looking into the line `twixt Bryn, Goose Green, Park Lane Jnc. and Pemberton....it also shows the 3 m. 4 ch. Westwood line.

[APOLLO]

Thanks for that link Debs. I allready had a copy of this, but much smaller. Your link is a superb large image of it.

 

The Springs Branch (which I model) is clearly seen. Wigan was a rats nest of railways many years ago, though we still have two stations and seven routes into town.

 

Brit15

[Michael Delamar]

there are shots of Pemberton Junction in scenes from the past 54, Bolton to LIverpool Ex by Jim Markland.

 

also a shot of the junction and Hindley no 2 box in Bob Pixton's Liverpool & Manchester 3 Lancashire and yorkshire lines.

 

but no shots between Pemberton and Hindley.

[beast66606]

Pemberton Junction was an LMS box, I've got a pic of it somewhere, seem to remember it was a "funny" though.

 

I'm sure I've seen at least one shot on the Pemberton loop, in a book perhaps.

 

[Michael Delamar]

i think there is another shot from little lane bridge in one of the now and then books

[Michael Delamar]

off topic as its not the Pemberton loop, but a video called Steam routes Crewe to Carlisle has some great quality colour shots around Springs branch shed in the 1960s, a really nice shot of a 9f crossing the west coast mainline near the shed on the St helens avoiding line bridge which has now gone too

[beast66606]

off topic as its not the Pemberton loop, but a video called Steam routes Crewe to Carlisle has some great quality colour shots around Springs branch shed in the 1960s, a really nice shot of a 9f crossing the west coast mainline near the shed on the St helens avoiding line bridge which has now gone too

 

Fir Tree House Junction is the wooden signal box

[Michael Delamar]

Fir Tree House Junction is the wooden signal box

thanks I was wondering what it was called, would have been just to the right of this shot,

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/5346469266/in/photostream/

[beast66606]

thanks I was wondering what it was called, would have been just to the right of this shot,

 

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

 

Thats the one, it also controlled the main lines (slow only iirc)

[Thomas]

When they were removing the embankment of the Pemberton loop line in the 1970/80's, they uncovered the original brick viaduct of nineteen arches, 20ft high and 30ft span, ( or parts of it ) near to Ince Old Hall,were the line crossed the A49 road to Wigan. It was converted into an embankment in 1898/9 only 10 years after the line opened, because of mining subsidence in the area.

Only once went across the loop line in the mid 1960's, when having worked a rail train to Castleton, we took the engine, a class 8F, LE to Aintree shed, happy days.

[APOLLO]

The Pemberton Loop line was "one of those lines" we all took for granted, untill it was too late. I used to walk the dog along it after it was closed up to where it crossed the much more interesting west coast main line - but I never took any photos of it ! - young and daft back then.

 

Thanks for the input guys n gals, someone out there may have some photos !!

 

Brit15

[woodenhead]

That could just be some auld fella waving - how would the enginemen know who's instructions to take?

 

Saw a video the other day regarding SPAD and hand signalling where an NR track person had been sent to take charge of a crossing but had forgotten his flags. All the controls and instructions for safety we have now and in that picture it's an old man in a cap and his best shoes waving a hand.

[Hobby]

http://www.disused-s...rdy/index.shtml

 

Just looked at the main site and they've just listed the Preston to Southpart stations, including Longton Bridge, my old local!

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/l/longton_bridge/index.shtml

 

If you look at the first photo you'll see a couple of chimneys to the right in the old brickworks, the larger of the two was left in place when they abandoned it and as kids we spent many years gradually removing the bricks at its base until finally they had to demolish it officially before it collapsed! In the old station building some wit from BR left the safe and very kindly locked it! It took us many years to chisel through the casing to get inside where we found they'd left us some ex LMS pen nibs... Going back to the brickworks, it had both 15" and 2' track, tubs on the former and skips on the latter, I was collecting railway memorabilia at the time and pushed two of those wagons all the way home along the pavements in Hutton and Longton, there were two grooves two foot apart in the pavement for years after that!

 

Good old days!!

[Michael Delamar]

Hi Hobby

 

id like to model Hesketh bank one day,

 

the line is very interesting, look at this at Penwortham, A scottish region Swindon unit!

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/p/penwortham/index.shtml

[Hobby]

Yes i noticed that! The line was shut by the time I started spotting so i had to make 4 mile cycle rides to Lostock Hall sometimes via Croston or Midge Hall. We went up and down the line from New Longton across to Hesketh Bank collecting bits and pieces, including old signs, but for some reason never went to Cop Lane, though we did sneak into the old WLR station at Preston before they demolished it, there are some evocative photos on that site!!

[Guest Phil]

My holy grail is photographs of shunting movements in and out of the Coneygre sidings via the Ground Frame. This was a release from Sedgeley Jn SB located between Dudley and Great Bridge on the South Staffs line. There were still trip movements diagrammed in 1963, but Sedgeley Jn closed in July 1964 when the Walsall-Dudley passenger service finished.

 

The lead from the Down line across diamonds over the Up line and the Up Goods line was on a 1:60 gradient, but there is nothing in the Appendices to explain how it should be done. Would you leave an unattanded portion of train on a 1:60 gradient ?

[Michael Delamar]

still keeping an eye out for shots of the Pemberton loop.

 

there are some nice north west and Wigan area shots in this gallery, I was interested in the very last picture, it says its Wigan but no more info...

 

http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/ArchiveSteam/ArchiveSteam.htm

[beast66606]

still keeping an eye out for shots of the Pemberton loop.

 

there are some nice north west and Wigan area shots in this gallery, I was interested in the very last picture, it says its Wigan but no more info...

 

http://www.docbrown....rchiveSteam.htm

 

Don't ask me why but feels like the Amberswood area to me.

[Thomas]

Looks like a train of empties for Bickershaw colliery on the stiff climb from Ince Moss Junction up to Fir Tree House Junction.

Tom

[APOLLO]

The last photo mentioned above looks very much like the start of the incline at Ince Moss Jcn up to Fir Tree House Jcn, over the WCML, Not absolutely sure, as it could be, as Beast says, the Whelley loop at Amberswood, train starting up the gradient to Whelley - Though I'd plump for Ince moss Jcn, looks to steep for the Whelley line..

 

Pic of the climb from Ince Moss to Fir Tree House

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/6773747260/

 

Tons of Wigan Railway photos on this Wigan site

 

http://lqqk.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?offset=0&opt=3&gallery=railways

 

A couple of shots of the Pemberton Loop on the above link, but not brilliant, and not the elusive Westwood Park Signalbox.

 

Incidentally I read recently that the signalbox at Platt Bridge Jcn (which served lines crossing at 2 levels) was dismantled and re-used at Warrington Central. I presume it's the one still in use there. Heres the link, read the notes below.

 

http://www.wiganworld.com/album/photo.php?opt=3&id=20048&gallery=Railways&offset=320

 

Also photo here of the box, now at Warrington Central

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/5727315904/

 

Brit15

[beast66606]

The last photo mentioned above looks very much like the start of the incline at Ince Moss Jcn up to Fir Tree House Jcn, over the WCML, Not absolutely sure, as it could be, as Beast says, the Whelley loop at Amberswood, train starting up the gradient to Whelley - Though I'd plump for Ince moss Jcn, looks to steep for the Whelley line..

 

Me too - bowing down to greater knowledge.

[beast66606]

Incidentally I read recently that the signalbox at Platt Bridge Jcn (which served lines crossing at 2 levels) was dismantled and re-used at Warrington Central. I presume it's the one still in use there. Heres the link, read the notes below.

 

Yes, that's true, of course this was the BR replacement for the original LNWR Platt Bridge Jcn, despite what the text says reuse of signal boxes was not particularly common in BR days.

[Mark Saunders]

My version of them are ones I can't find!

 

NCB three box coal wagons working out of Haydock colliery.

 

ICI Soda Ash trains from Wallerscote to Glazebrook on the Cheshire Lines after 1973 with the ICI 16t minerals.

 

and Distillers 5 box coal wagons.

 

Any one know of any?

 

Mark Saunders